Accepting Your Flaws

[ae86gamer]

I'm not confident. At all.
I'm too opinionated.
I never think before I speak.
I don't take anything seriously.
I don't know how to express or talk about my feelings.
I keep everything bottled up.
I'm always doubting myself.
I'm also too timid.

 

[Serge A. Storms]

I'm noticing that most of the people here are saying most of the same things, (outside of the thread starter and the panda, both of whom seem determined to create a wall of text big enough to re-create the crushing of the Syrians). I'm not exactly sure how someone can maintain this type of low self-esteem forever.

 

[zohmbee]

Ha! I was looking for a thread like this; something to help me wallow in my self-loathing. Let's see:

- I'm overweight (how many people have said this now?) but working on it
- I would rather spend my time playing video games than hanging out with real people
- I hate almost everyone I've ever met
- I let people treat me like a mutt
- I feel worthless as a human being all the time
- I feel like a burden on those I actually care about, often worrying that I'm pushing them away and wondering if I should just disappear from their lives
- I generally don't care about anything at all
- I'm extremely paranoid
- I tend to put my one friend in front of everything/one else in my life. I'm currently forcing myself to stay awake on my fourth night of no-sleep just to see if they sign on.
- I shut down if I'm feeling depressed, otherwise I get angry and snippy. I've skipped class for three days to sit alone in a hallway and cry so I don't take it out on those who don't deserve it. No one knows I do it, not even my mum.

I should stop now before I fill up an entire page.

 

[alimarin]

My flaw is that I don't know what my flaw is, but since I am very intelligent, not knowing what your own weakness is, is good because no body else knows. That is, unless they created you and gave you no memory of yourself and you end up betraying the human rebellion and deliver them into a trap by Skynet. Cough.

 

[NeonV]

1. I never want to put any effort in to getting a reward (e.g. grades, although something I used to be quite good at I became used to not having to work for them. Then the difficulty stepped up and I couldn't find the motivation to want to work for better grades)
2. Low self-esteem, and even when I do get a compliment I tend to let it blow over and usually disregard it.
3. I'm quite shallow when it comes to the opposite sex.
4.Lack of discipline - I even lack the discipline to stay up past 7pm some nights simply because I feel a little bit tired.
5.When left in a one-on-one social situation I feel extremely uncomfortable and struggle immensely to come up with anything sensible to say which is odd as I seem to excel in the area of group conversation.
6.I find myself quite boring (I think I have a boring voice) and am never sure if people laugh at my attempts of humour out of pity or genuine amusement.

 

[Hurr Durr Derp]

You can't really prove that desirability is "inherently subjective" simply by saying it is. Parables like "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" aside, there are many aspects of desirability which are entirely objectively measurable. Symmetry of the face (which is a huge factor in physical attractiveness) is entirely objective. Simply putting your position as the irrevocable "truth" with words like "inherently" doesn't make it so.

...but you can prove that it's objective by repeatedly saying it is? Have you never, for example, had a friend all ga-ga over a girl you didn't have the slightest interest in, physical or otherwise? Even 'universal' societal standards don't necessarily mean anything on a personal level. For example, society would say "skinny people are more attractive", but there are plenty of guys attracted to girls with more meat on their bones. And that's not even going into more fetishy things, in which the sky is the limit (though there's no need to go into those, it's less relevant in the bigger picture).

We're still debating the same point. You believe there's no objectively "more desirable" trait or person, that it's all about someone finding someone else who is perfect in their eyes, love story, ect. But that's not the reality of the world. First, society does decide what attractive qualities (physically, mentally, and in all other regards) are. You can buck that, but most people don't. You believe that whether you like girl X more than girl Y is entirely a matter of subjective analysis and of your wants, needs, and desires, and thus not at all reflective on the girls in question. You put the locus of control for the outcome of being asked out on the person who was asked, I put it on the person asking. If you ask someone out who is more desirable than you are, you will be rejected ninety-nine times out of one-hundred.

Well yeah, that's something we can argue about 'til the cows come home then.

Well, we can keep beating the dead horse of whether it's possible to objectively measure desirability and worth in a relationship until we're both dead, but it won't change the reality that there are ways to objectively measure "worth" in a dating sense. Wealth is worth more than poverty, attractiveness is worth more than unattractiveness, intelligence is worth more than stupidity, svelte people are worth more than fat people, it's a pretty simple metric.

first of all "attractiveness vs unattractiveness" is a rather pointless circular argument here, since unless I'm mistaken, you're arguing that a person's 'worth' determines their attractiveness. Being wealthy and throwing around money might help some people get laid, but I've never checked a girl's bank account before dating her, and I don't imagine anyone's done it to me either. Intelligence is usually mentioned as a desirable trait, but intelligence is hard to define (is it book-smart? street-smart? wit? etc), and more intelligent isn't always more desirable. As for the last example, see my own example above. What I'm getting at is that there's a significant difference in societal values vs personal values.

Wow did you miss the point by a wide margin. You focused on the part of the debate you could win, and ignored the actual analogy. Thus, yes, you win on the point you made (that being rejected is not the same as death), but you must allow my point to flow through. Thus, you accept that it is possible to know with a good amount of certainty the outcome of a dating scenario before it plays out. Thanks.

I think that you can imagine such a scenario. I don't think it can be done "with a good amount of certainty".

I understand your distinction, and you seem to have rode right past my point. I don't disagree with playing it to the hilt and going after a girl you don't have much of a shot with if you understand that going into it what creates a problem is when people (ignorant or ignoring of their faults) actually believe themselves to have a chance, and are crestfallen when they lose an unwinable battle. If you know your chances are somewhere in the same category as winning the lottery while being struck by lightning and being eaten by a shark, ask away. But people don't do that, they present the situation to themselves as "I'm awesome, so she should like me" ignoring the fact that they aren't as desirable.

I'm not sure "people don't do that". Sure not everyone will do that, but others will. Either way, that's not the point. Thinking "She's way out of my league, my chances are about the same as getting hit by lightning thrice in a row" will often make you give up even before you start, make you a lot more nervous if you do try it, etc. It's not about denying your own flaws, it's denying their influence on you. And sure, an ugly person might get rejected a lot more than a handsome one, but an ugly, self-confident person at least has a better chance than an ugly person who keeps telling themself they're going to fail anyway. It's the self-limiting effect I keep mentioning.

I'm curious why you keep falling back on "real life experience" as a defender of your points. Is it because you believe I don't have real world experience, or because you think your experience is more extensive? I can all but promise you I have as much experience both primarily (in the girls I've befriended, the ones I've dated, and the ones I've been in relationships with) and vicariously (through friends I've helped through drama in their lives), and my belief is based just as much in real-world experience.

I use real life experience not because I think I have an advantage there (I don't know you, so I wouldn't know about that), but because it's what I know best. If you say things work one way, but what I've seen myself indicates it doesn't, it's what leads me to believe you're wrong. If I had real life experience suggesting that life is as calculable as you claim, I wouldn't be arguing.

My belief is this:

All of human interaction is predicable, but complex. Your dismissive, condescending, and completely irrelevant "good luck trying to come up with a formula, fnar fnar" is out of place. I have no need to "make" a perfect girl Weird Science style, I (unlike you) accept that if I did, she wouldn't want me. Instead, I can simply say, I have a good idea how things will end up.

I should've been clearer here. Of course I didn't mean making a perfect girl, I meant finding one. Or at least figuring out what parameters to look for to achieve maximum compatability and chance of success. Because what I'm getting here is that in your mind, life is one big... I dunno, computer program or something, with all the little people running their lives predetermined by cause-and-effect and societal norms. Which is something I just don't believe is true. And even if you were right, wouldn't the complexity make your predictions inaccurate unless you understand all the right aspects of that complexity?

I've heard of them, but the fact that they exist doesn't actually prove that anything "limiting" yourself would be a self-fulfilling prophecy. You're falling into the same correlation trap most people fall into: you see that confident guys get girls, and confident girls get guys, and thus say "confidence, therefore, causes success", but that's not how it goes. You know who's confident, guys and girls who are more desirable. You believe that positive thinking can somehow change the objective reality of the situation, and that makes you sound like an idiot. Go back to reading "The Secret", and tell me when you win the lottery just by thinking you deserve to.

Ooh, assumption of facts and a condescending ad hominem. Might wanna practice what you preach there, pal.

Once again, your analogy fails. Winning the lottery is (or should be) completely random. You have a certain (tiny) chance, and a completely random event determines whether you win or not. People do not choose who to date at random. If you and someone else want to date the same person, and in your mind you only have a 10% chance of succeeding and the other person a 50% chance, noone's going to roll some dice and see who the winner is. Positive thinking increases your desirability not because you think it does, but because it reflects on your behaviour and in some ways even on your appearance. Again, the core of my argument is that knowing your flaws is useless if you let those flaws hold you back. If you're the kind of person who thinks "My chances here suck badly", then I'd even argue that you're better off not knowing your flaws and being confident despite those flaws. In that case, arrogance beats a lack of self-confidence any day of the week. And while self-confidence does mostly stem from a good self-image, it does not necessarily reflect any objective 'worth' or desirability.

 

[Ace of Spades]

1. I am unattractive.
2. I am very competitive.

 

[Comma-Kazie]

I'm lazy, quick to judge, and a very, VERY spiteful person if something pisses me off.

 

[Baris345]

1) I'm narcissistic. Yes, I do realise that's a bit of a contradiction.
2) I'm paranoid when it comes to relationships.
3) I'm very judgemental on promiscouity(spelling?).
4) I have the potential to be incredibly lazy when told to do something I have no interest in.

 

[DemonicVixen]

ok well in the world of dating:
I'm easily paranoid, shy, low selfesteem, argumentative though i try avoiding confrontations with my boyfriend (not easy), extremely easily panicked/worried and i think thats about it.

As for normal world:
Laid back, hate confontations, loner, keep myself to myself, easily angered, moderate selfasteem, quiet, often miserable when feeling down and alone.

Competitive goes in both.

 

[Biek]

The only flaw I have right now is that I really should be at the gym like im supposed to. but instead im sitting here with a bag of candy thats supposed to be for the kids at my door. (dutch holiday similair to halloween)

 

[Thingo]

Where to start....
- I look like I've been hit with a shovel and fought with a lawnmower
- I'm just a sucker with no self-esteem
- I'm far too naive and trusting
- I might be suffering from both histrionic and borderline personality disorder
- I'm so lonely I wish I had voices in my head to keep me company
- I'm socially inept
- I've got a huge ego and really let things go to my head
- I percieve myself as narrow-mindedand stupid, lazy, apathetic, sheltered and boring.

not to forget uncreative

Are you my twin brother?! Well, except the getting hit with a shovel and fought with a lawnmower part, i think i look OK. Not too good, not too bad.

 

[Mr.Squishy]

Where to start....
- I look like I've been hit with a shovel and fought with a lawnmower
- I'm just a sucker with no self-esteem
- I'm far too naive and trusting
- I might be suffering from both histrionic and borderline personality disorder
- I'm so lonely I wish I had voices in my head to keep me company
- I'm socially inept
- I've got a huge ego and really let things go to my head
- I percieve myself as narrow-mindedand stupid, lazy, apathetic, sheltered and boring.

not to forget uncreative

Are you my twin brother?! Well, except the getting hit with a shovel and fought with a lawnmower part, i think i look OK. Not too good, not too bad.

Gasp! My parents told me I had no brother!...which must be true 'cause you're not ugly as fuck, unlike me

 

[Uncreation]

I am a weak person. In all senses of the word. Also, i think a good part of what Mr.Squishy said, aplies for me aswell.