ACLU Sues for Anti-Gay Group That Pickets at Troops' Burials

[lostclause]

Not in the case in question. If I were to file a restraining order against you that required you to keep a 300 foot distance at all times, it doesn't matter if you're on public land at the time or not. The only time this right is superseded is if I pass within 300 feet of your personal property (such as your home), or the restraining order is overturned.

And, as I've pointed out before the question is not if they are following the correct civil procedure for a demonstration. The question is if their rights to religious expression and speech are being infringed upon. The question you ought to ask here is then a question of the greater good. Someone is going to have their rights infringed upon, be it the funeral goers (who are under no legal obligation to endure harassment and slander) or the fanatics who believe that god has chosen them to deliver his message through their escapades. As far as I'm concerned, they can hold their demonstrations all they want so long as it doesn't interfere with the funeral proceedings in any way shape or fashion.

Remember - your freedom is only protected when your actions are not impeding upon the freedoms of others. This principle has been upheld on multiple occasions in the Supreme Court.

Not sure how the restraining order bit is relavent (unless you're threatening me ). Although if you mean the restraining order against the group, not sure if you can get those, they won't give it for the same reasons that they're trying to overturn the law.
The funerals goers don't suffer slander, it's an anti-gay protest. They only choose that particular funeral for maximum publicity.
I think we've been talking on slightly different wavelengths until now because I haven't mentioned greater good or whether it's morally acceptable yet. So here I go. This is one that is going to vary vastly due to the eyes of the beholder. Any protest outside a funeral for a young man who died violently for his country far from home is going to have an impact just from being seen. And they will be seen because, as I said, they're just trying to headline grab. Therefore the question can be phrased like this as well: Is their freedom of speech worth the trauma to the victims at having the so recently deceased disrespected by a protest which has only the most tenuous of links? And yes that is a loaded question.

 

[Birras]

When I inevitably get elected president once everyone else gets tired of the democrats/republicans/other dumbass politicians bullshit, I may just make stupidity not only illegal but a federal offense punishable by permanent banishment.

Bah! The main two parties are no match against the Birras party! We are going for the major 'Not-giving-a-shit-about-politics' demographic, and we plan to get their vote by not giving a shit ourselves! No sladering of the opponent, aside from something like 'Sarah Palin cares about politics. Do you want that, or someone you can relate to? I'm Birras and I approve this message. *Birras/Sparty B '12*'

 

[dnnydllr]

That is one infuriating article.
Come on! Live and let live. I can't believe just how intolerant some people is.
You can't go and picket a funeral, there's people there who are suffering for the loss of a loved one. I doubt their god would approve of such disrespectful stupidity.

These Westboro Baptist Church people are nothing but ignorants and I hope the ACLU loses so they get some time off in jail to think about how idiotic they are. ¬_¬

They have their right to freedom of speech.

But being a dick about it I doesn't wouldn't make people like your side MORE. It would in turn do the opposite.

The right to freedom of speech only extends so far. At some point you begin to infringe on the rights of others. People have the right to honor their dead, especially those who died for their country. Those Westboro bastards definitely defile that right. If any of my brothers died in the service and their funeral was picketed, I'd want to ruin sue them as well.
Edit: Misread the title, and thought they were suing the church. Well this just makes me hate them even further.

 

[obisean]

This is coming from an ex-military person, so keep this in mind. Outlaw it during a military burial. The military doesn't play by the same rules as citizens, if they did we would be overly fucked.

Example:
Some dude doesn't like his job, pickets, gets a meeting and discusses his wants.
A Marine doesn't like his job, pickets, and gets arrested, thrown in jail for a bit and have your paychek cut by about half if not more as well as having to sit on the base for a month or so. That's if that is all they do. You'd be lucky to not be court-marshalled and serve possible further jail time.

It's a different thing I know, but the idea stands that the military can do what it needs to do to get the job done, they don't give a fuck about your civilian rights.

All they have to do is extend this to within say.... 20 miles of a grave site where a soldier is being buried, 1h before and after, and call it a military operation.

 

[dnnydllr]

Its the principle of the thing. Freedom of speech and all that should be for everyone. Not just for those whom have something you want to hear. These people are sick, depraved, and completely idiotic. But they have legal right (so far) to do what they do.

There's freedom of speech and there's freedom to bury your dead without having to read signs saying "God hates fags".

Quite frankly, I don't care about freedom of speech. This is just about being sensible.

Indeed. It would be nice if common sense would make a comeback in this country, but there's always a law or a loophole in a law to protect them.

 

[A random person]

My only problem with the ACLU here is that Westboro's picketing is disturbing a private event. Otherwise I support them no matter who they're defending.

 

[quiet_samurai]

It's the Westbouro Baptist Church, just type that in the youtube search to get a real good feel of where they come from. They suck.....

 

[Lazier Than Thou]

That is one infuriating article.
Come on! Live and let live. I can't believe just how intolerant some people is.
You can't go and picket a funeral, there's people there who are suffering for the loss of a loved one. I doubt their god would approve of such disrespectful stupidity.

These Westboro Baptist Church people are nothing but ignorants and I hope the ACLU loses so they get some time off in jail to think about how idiotic they are. ¬_¬

They have their right to freedom of speech.

But being a dick about it I doesn't wouldn't make people like your side MORE. It would in turn do the opposite.

The right to freedom of speech only extends so far. At some point you begin to infringe on the rights of others. People have the right to honor their dead, especially those who died for their country. Those Westboro bastards definitely defile that right. If any of my brothers died in the service and their funeral was picketed, I'd want to ruin sue them as well. Also, I'm not a big fan of the ACLU, but i think this is definitely one case that needs to be fought.

I'm not trying to sound mean or stupid or anything, but where is it spelled out that people in the US have the right to honor their dead?

 

[Zenode]

People....are....ridiculous

respect much?

 

[Laura.]

They have their right to freedom of speech.

Yes, they do, but people shouldn't use their freedom of speech to spread hate (see "neo-nazism"), especially not at a funeral.
It's not a legal nor constitutional matter, it's about respect for your peers. And picketing a funeral isn't very respectful towards the family and friends of the deceased.

Sure, they have the right to go and say anything, but I wonder how they would like it if their church got picketed every sunday morning...

 

[Krakyn]

That article is three years old...

 

[mshcherbatskaya]

The problem is the law itself. It's a badly writted law, which is why it can be challenged. If, as the article states, "the law bans picketing and protests "in front of or about" any location where a funeral is held, from an hour before it begins until an hour after it ends," then people would also be unable to demonstrate against racist violence near the funeral of, for example, a man who was killed by the KKK. Westboro Baptist does not picket at private events, like funerals, they picket nearby, usually from across the street. If law enforcement wants to bust them, there are ways to do it that don't run a-foul of the constitution. Ordinances against blocking the sidewalk or making to much noise can and are used to break up protests all the time. Bust them for disorderly conduct with the slightest excuse, but don't remove my civil liberties to shut them up. In part, because I want to be able to counter-protest them, and I don't want to be silenced in my turn.

This is why I appreciate the ACLU, because they really do what they say they do - protect everyone's civil liberties. Everyone. They get depicted as being a tool of The Liberals, but there actions here clearly demonstrate this is not the case.

They have their right to freedom of speech.

Sure, they have the right to go and say anything, but I wonder how they would like it if their church got picketed every sunday morning...

They would love it. Westboro Baptist is an organization run by a pathological narcissist who will do anything to promote conflict and gain attention by it. There is literally nothing they would like more than to have someone come picket their church. It would validate them.

 

[dnnydllr]

I'm not trying to sound mean or stupid or anything, but where is it spelled out that people in the US have the right to honor their dead?

As far as I know it isn't. This is most likely because the forefathers had some ethics and common sense, unlike most people who live in the country today. Just like the new internet laws that are now coming out, this is something that may need to put into law as the times change. It was never written, but it was always common sense...until now at least.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

The case is justified. It is not the business of the government to outlaw a specific type of protest, even if that protest does borderline on hate speech.

No, instead, it is OUR jobs, as decent citizens, to rise up and counter-protest these idiots at every occasion. They have the right to spew their idiocy, and we have the right to call them out as the idiots they are. When we can start getting counter-protests that are four or five times the size of their pathetic little hate-parties, then maybe they'll see that their idiocy is far from the will of the people.

Me, I can find an evening to spare and a nice big piece of cardboard to write on. How does "Agnostics Know That God Hates Hate" ring?

 

[Frankydee]

When I inevitably get elected president once everyone else gets tired of the democrats/republicans/other dumbass politicians bullshit, I may just make stupidity not only illegal but a federal offense punishable by permanent banishment.

Bah! The main two parties are no match against the Birras party! We are going for the major 'Not-giving-a-shit-about-politics' demographic, and we plan to get their vote by not giving a shit ourselves! No sladering of the opponent, aside from something like 'Sarah Palin cares about politics. Do you want that, or someone you can relate to? I'm Birras and I approve this message. *Birras/Sparty B '12*'

got my vote

 

[SlickShot]

I'm all for free speech and do not support the war at all but jesus people? A funeral? Have some fucking respect for the dead. We all know they don't respect the living.

 

[mshcherbatskaya]

The best thing to do with groups like Westboro is to make a fundraising campaign out of them. Get people to pledge money for every Westboro Baptist that shows up, then donate it to PFLAG or GLAAD or AIDS research or gay marriage activists.

They have done this for Operation Rescue. For every anti-choice protestor that shows up at the clinic, you donate $X to NARAL or Planned Parenthood.

 

[6PrinceofDarkness6]

Yes, how dare they keep those disrespectful assholes out of PRIVATE EVENTS. That so totally goes against the first amendment.

Partially true.

One of the things nobody understands is, that when the Westbro Baptist church gets pushed out of picketing for something, they get a government stipends for it from several holes in law. While some are doing it because they feel like they should, Phelps is only doing because it gets him money.

And if they get hurt? Heh, it only gets them more. They only possible way we can get rid of them is to block off that hole in the law system and ignore them.

 

[Naeo]

"A Kansas church group that protests at military funerals nationwide filed suit in federal court, saying a Missouri law banning such picketing infringes on religious freedom and free speech.

The American Civil Liberties Union filed the lawsuit Friday in the U.S. District Court in Jefferson City, Mo., on behalf of the fundamentalist Westboro Baptist Church, which has outraged mourning communities by picketing service members' funerals with signs condemning homosexuality."

Okay, issue. Picketing is not a religious right. Picketing falls under "freedom of speech/expression" and "freedom to assemble peacefully", which are both legal/social rights and not religious.

And the ACLU sponsoring this? The "We believe in gay right and tolerance" group deciding to sue on behalf of arguably the strongest anti-gay group in America? (or at least the most belligerent)


"In the lawsuit, the ACLU says the Missouri law tries to limit protesters' free speech based on the content of their message."

Name one better thing to censor speech based on. I dare you. That's like suing for throwing someone in prison after they killed their neighbor, saying "My client was imprisoned for their illegal actions".


This whole thing reeks of "Let us trample all over the families who just lost a child/parent, dammit! It's our right to offend everyone we can at their greatest time of grief!" in retaliation to enforcement of what is ultimately the only real law: "Thou shalt not be a dick." How about this: someone go picket at one of their funerals. Or a lot of someones, holding "God loves fags" and "God will smite the intolerants" and "The wrath of God is upon this nation because people don't tolerate gays" (hopefully that can be paraphrased, or someone has a big, big banner somewhere). I'd say it's not worth sinking so low, but in this case, it is. Or, just take the meaning of "Hammer smashed face" to heart (the words, not the actual lyrical content of that song).

 

[jasoncyrus]

I'm just waiting for the counter suit along the lins of inciting hate crimes against homosexuals etc.