ACLU Sues for Anti-Gay Group That Pickets at Troops' Burials

[Agayek]

Yes, the essential civil process are legal - that isn't the question here. The question here is if they have the right to infringe upon the funeral proceedings of others. Sure they are keeping the required distance, but if the funeral participants still feel as though their rights are being infringed upon then I'd say this religious group is still stepping beyond the line. I don't care if they run up and down the streets shouting at anybody that will listen that they believe god kills people in the military because of homosexuality. That's all well and good so long as no individual tells them to stop, because the moment someone becomes irritated at what they're being told directly they have every right in the world to stop such nonsense.

If they are observing the standard laws for protest, no one in the funeral has the right to stop them. That's why the laws exist, so that people can protest freely, without directly hampering what they are protesting. I'm with the ACLU on this one, you can't stop them from their protest, no matter how dumb it is.

Personally, I'd just file for a restraining order that keeps them 1 mile away from funeral processions and routes in progress. If need be, I'd simply advise each and every funeral planner to do so in advance. Such a move is not only perfectly legal, its just as fair as what's being done in the name of god anyway.

Agreed there. If they did this, and then they protest again, then they are fully within their rights to push for legal action against the protesters.

 

[Agayek]

Ok, please correct me if I am wrong but the ACLU is a body of people who will fight on your behalf or some shit? No matter how retarded the issue?

On the issue at hand this is FUCKING disgraceful. The guy/girl dies to protect them, and they protest at his/her funeral. Nice gratitude.

Yet another reason why I hate America's idea of religion. Hey Kraken? Care to chime in on how awesome all you crazy baptists are?

The ACLU is a huge proponent of free speech, no matter the circumstances. They will support any cause they feel has that basic right violated, no matter what it is. Simply put, they defend the Constitutional rights of US citizens, even when it's distasteful.

 

[Agayek]

Considering I'm just a clueless Brit who isn't sure what this is about, what is ACLU?

ACLU stands for American Civil Liberties Union, I believe. They're essentially a group that will promote and support any group or individual who they feel has their Constitutional rights infringed.

 

[742]

theres a difference between whether someone should do something and whether they should be allowed to do something. that whole slippery slope thing, and the time thing, im no lawyer but this might set a precedent for something else later that is very bad. then again it might just stop a bunch of subhuman pieces of crap from preeching hate and intolerance. really the best solution isnt so much laws about protesting, its laws about not fucking your cousins. (that is not to imply that all people from the south practice incest, but that these specific subhuman pieces of crap are clearly its result)

 

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

Its the principle of the thing. Freedom of speech and all that should be for everyone. Not just for those whom you dont want to hear. These people are sick, depraved, and completely idiotic. But they have legal right (so far) to do what they do.

Its true, but sometimes people go too far. But what can you do? Its human nature, after all.

But what is too far? Are they promoting violence, calling people to hurt and kill gay people? If so, yes they shoud be dealth with, if not...well...free speech is free speech, even though they're retards. Kinda sucks that burial grounds are public places. Maybe the actual burial process should be considered a personal affair, even though it's held on public ground.

Too far would be disrupting a ceremony for people who died to protect them. But, as their not hurting anybody physically, the law cannot do anything without infringing into their rights.

 

[andrat]

They deserve a fail cake. That's just terrible. Once again, glad to live up here in Canada. Our religious nuts at least shut up.

Took the words right out of my mouth

 

[vamp rocks]

god lets the soldiers die because we are tolerant of gay men and lesbian women?? what the hell??? i hate anti-gay bible bashers... its pisses me off to no end!

 

[Jark212]

"At this hour, the wrath of God is pouring out on this country."

I LOL'd

But I seriously hate these nazis...

 

[Panzer_God]

The biker gang, Knights of the Last Crusade had the right idea.

I love those guys. All they have to do is show up without saying a word, and the picketers shut the unholy fuck up. It was quite funny to see those assholes from Westboro standing behind a line of those guys, looking thoroughly cowed and clearly too intimidated to so much as mutter anything under their breath.

Well when you take a group of slef-important bilebeaters(biblebashers, I can't remember which), none of whom seem hit the gym often and put them face to face with a group of people who (supposedly) start bar fights for sport and who look like wellmuscled refridgerators, what do you think will happen. If Westboro haven't seen the light by the time I'm 18 I'm joining that gang.

 

[Panzer_God]

I just had an amazing idea. If the family of a member of WBC dies, we shoud picket thier funeral and see if that has any reaction.

 

[blindey]

It doesn't matter if you disagree with them, it is a free speech issue.
They can picket all they want, just as people are free to picket abortion clinics and religious institutions.

Free speech is protected on public land people. They could be saying absolutely horrible things, but as long as it is not a) incitement to riot, b) fighting words, or c) hate speech, it's constitutionally protected, and if we decide to ban it, it won't be long before dissent against the government and its policies are restricted too - and that's grounds for a revolution, according to our founding fathers.

EDIT:

Man, I think if some dickheads like that were going to use their freedom of speech to picket at my dead son/daughter's funeral...I'd just have to exercise my right to go kick their asses.

You don't have that right. Period. You'd be locked up, and quite right too. Now, I'm not saying I wouldn't sympathize with you, but you still can't do that. Find a better, non-violent, legal way.

Only the first page, and already we have some sanity! woot. Good for you.

The reason why they should be allowed to sue is that, yes, freedom of speech is nice, but shouldn't you have the right to not have to hear something? At some point, it's just harassment, and should be barred.
Any one who hates the ACLU for this probably already had an inclination to, anyway.

No. There is no "right not to be offended by a peaceable protest/exposition of views" amendment in the constitution.

Freedom of speech, and I mean the real right that it represents, not the "I can say anything I want" bullshit most people assume it means, is a very valuable and unique right. It's the right of peaceful assembly. It is a driving force for change. And it's something that a lot of other people in the world wish they had. The ACLU understands that protecting this right is very important, and sometimes means defending the rights of very stupid and ignorant people.

This is one of those times. Once you start letting your rights get eroded it's really hard to get them back. Someone can be morally wrong and legally correct, but that doesn't mean we should start legislating morality.

Beautifully put. *clap*

 

[dashiz94]

While I disagree with the issue, the merits are correct. Despite how disgusting these people are for protesting at this funeral, they still have rights. The ACLU does good for people, but the question people need to ask is this, "If the government can limit speech for one incident, where does it end?"

 

[dashiz94]

If someone shows up at your house, vomits all over everything, and starts ranting about "them black folk," you have every right to kick them out (and perhaps just kick them.)

The same should apply for funerals, parties...
Stuff like that.

I see where you're going with this, but it's not the same. There are other laws they are infringing on, (i.e. vandalism) as well as the fact you are expressing YOUR free will by saying "piss off."

 

[Jezzy54]

So, the ACLU believes their god kills random innocent people out of disapproval for a certain sexual orientation?
Well then, may their horrid monstrosity they call a god burn in a new level of hell reserved for psychopathic deities.

No-no, you're confusing the ACLU with the Westboro Baptist Cult. The ACLU just makes sure everyone, no matter how...twisted, is given their Constitutional rights. How is that a bad thing again?

Oh, crap, you're right. Sorry about that. I still think this sort of thing is too messed-up to allow.

 

[m_jim]

Another astute Escapist pointed out (I wish that I could find it because it was so well worded) that he didn't want to take away someone else's right to protest, then when the time came that he felt the need to protest, his right had been taken away too.

But, I ask you, how many sane people see fit to protest at a funeral?

Probably not many. Still, it is not the government's place to censor speech, even if it is radical or insane. The task of discernment, I believe, falls on the people. Thankfully, most Americans see these people for the hatemongers that they are and ignore them accordingly.

 

[Booze Zombie]

Probably not many. Still, it is not the government's place to censor speech, even if it is radical or insane. The task of discernment, I believe, falls on the people. Thankfully, most Americans see these people for the hatemongers that they are and ignore them accordingly.

I don't think most of America shall complain because they can't protest at funerals, was my point.
All the other protesting is just fine, but leave those who just lost a family member or friend alone, freedom to be a cock or not.

 

[Treblaine]

Yeah if I was the ACLU and I had a whole list of civil rights abuses cases... this would be THE FUKEN LAST on my to-do list. I mean there would have to be literally no unlawful arrests or harassed protesters in the entire country before I would even bother to look at the cast of these nutjobs.

Get your f*king priorities straight ACLU, you think this proves anything? You think this proves how dedicated you are to freedom of speech? This is like the NRA paying to defend some crazy guy who goes on a shooting spree, you don't want to draw ANY attention to how this is directly a product of freedom of speech.

The reason the ACLU is so rightfully hated is because it chooses cases that are known to be incredibly unpopular, even over popular causes, almost as if they are deliberately trying to undermine the public perception of constitutional rights. I think they are just so deluded by self-importance and simplistic dogma that they can't see the wood for the trees.

On the other hand, the fact that Westbro Baptist Church continues to exist prety much dispels any accusations that America is not an incredibly free nation. EVERYONE hates Westbro... yet no one can touch them.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

Depends. Is the funeral on public property? Free Speech. Is it on private property or property owned by a private establishment? Get the owners in to settle this, or just have 'em say "no trespassing on mah land, son."

They don't even have the right to BE there if the property isn't public and the owners don't want them there.

But the Westboro Baptist Church needs to stop before I and every other Christian on the planet take out a hit on them. I'm tired of having them do this to the religion I love.

I'm not exactly for abortion, and I'm not against peaceful protest, but there's a time and place. Also, you can't link homosexuality to wartime losses unless there's a trail of evidence connecting *description of activity censored to avoid bannage* to the fighting abilities of the US troops. This isn't a logical fallacy-it's just an absurd notion.

"It rains on the just and the unjust"

Maybe the Westboro Church needs to shut up once in a while and actually read their Bible. Some passages from Job might be a good idea. You know, that part where all Job's buddies said the reason he suffered was because he had sinned.