ACLU Sues for Anti-Gay Group That Pickets at Troops' Burials

[beddo]

So the ACLU is allowed to spread their hate, but the families of the deceased aren't allowed to have a time to mourn for the loss of their loved one?

No one is stopping the families from mourning. If you believe that these hate groups are wrong then speak out against them, you have the same rights to picket them as they do to anyone else. If you want to blame someone for their death blame the Government who went to war not the people who oppose it.

There is a cost to freedom that we all have to pay. Is it worth giving that up to save this kind of suffering?

 

[Arkhangelsk]

The article was a little hard to read, but let's see if I got this straight. A church group is against military funerals, cause they think that soldiers are killed by the will of God cause the United States have freedom of sexuality? And for this, they're filing a lawsuit cause they're not allowed to protest at a funeral? God, this just annoys me. This is what I've always had problem with when it comes to religious fundamentalists (no offense to them), they always seem to infringe our right to have our own beliefs. In this case, they don't want a family to bury their loved one cause he was in the army and that America has freedom of sexuality. Let the family mourn. Is he less of a human being cause he's protecting his country? Doesn't the family have the right to give him a proper memorial without you disturbing them?

 

[beddo]

Yet again, the Constitution protects nothing that can be seen as abusive towards others - religion or otherwise.

I really need to go read it to bring in some quotes, but my basic point is this: There is no Constitutional authority that protects slanderous people and, although it may not be libel per se, they are indeed slanderous, which is mentioned in the Constitution. They should be thrown in jail, not protected because of this societies unsolicited mutations of what the Constitution actually says.

Yes there is, it's called the first amendment under the bill of rights. You are entitled to offend other people through any number of means that they cannot sue against.

For example, a religious person can say that you are going to hell and that may be offensive to you (a form of abuse) and there is nothing you can do about it. This could be slanderous as the person has no ability to prove that a hell exists or that you will be sent there.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

It's not these people who have manipulated the Constitution, it is those who introduce the ideas of slander, libel and so on that have. I see no area in the bill of rights where the Government can limit what can and can't be said or expressed.

 

[Soxafloppin]

Anyone who dies fighting for there country is a hero, some people don't know the meaning of respect.

 

[beddo]

The article was a little hard to read, but let's see if I got this straight. A church group is against military funerals, cause they think that soldiers are killed by the will of God cause the United States have freedom of sexuality? And for this, they're filing a lawsuit cause they're not allowed to protest at a funeral? God, this just annoys me. This is what I've always had problem with when it comes to religious fundamentalists (no offense to them), they always seem to infringe our right to have our own beliefs. In this case, they don't want a family to bury their loved one cause he was in the army and that America has freedom of sexuality. Let the family mourn. Is he less of a human being cause he's protecting his country? Doesn't the family have the right to give him a proper memorial without you disturbing them?

I fail to see what right of yours they are infringing upon. You do not have the right to not be offended. They are not stopping you from observing your own rights to a freedom of expression and belief.

 

[beddo]

Anyone who dies fighting for there country is a hero, some people don't know the meaning of respect.

So does that mean that enemies of the US who die fighting are heroes?

 

[beddo]

People just need to start follow the protesters everywhere making their life a living hell. Rainbow parade gatherings in their neighbourhoods would be a good start.

Exactly, don't attack freedom of expression, use it! Use it to confront these people, this is the only way to 'win', not taking away freedoms for all Americans.

 

[beddo]

The biker gang, Knights of the Last Crusade had the right idea.

I just looked them up on Google, they seem like awesome people. Have they beaten the shit outa the Westboro Baptist Church yet?

Please say yes...

With regards the the article, it's several years old, and I doubt I'll be saying anything about the subject that hasn't been said before.

I just wonder how the WBC haven't all been gunned down in the street yet. In a country with plenty of guns and lots of people, surely there is someone out there, some hero of decency, who can put an end to them...

So you're advocating murder to stem the freedom of speech and expression. Wow, what a hero, surely you would feel more at home in the Military Junta of Burma.

If you hate the rights given by the US Constitution then why don't you picket the Government to repeal the entire thing?

 

[Soxafloppin]

Anyone who dies fighting for there country is a hero, some people don't know the meaning of respect.

So does that mean that enemies of the US who die fighting are heroes?

To there country yes, im not american.

 

[beddo]

Phelps is a scumbag, but that doesn't mean he needs to be repressed by the government. The ACLU protects people like Phelps to keep everyone's speech free and unhindered. Legal precedent is very powerful. Speechless zones are not good for America.

Hear Hear.

 

[Baby Tea]

The biker gang, Knights of the Last Crusade had the right idea.

I remember hearing about them!
They stood between the picketers and the family, right?

Good for them! We need more people like that.

More on topic: I'm extremely certain that the ACLU doesn't agree with the reasons as to why the Westboro "Church" (In quotes, because they are far from a church), but they aren't fighting for them, they are fighting for free speech.

Technically, no matter how evil and terrible their actions are, they are legal. They have the right to protest and picket. It's part of our civil liberties. Which means that any wacko and evil group and go ahead and picket for their terrible cause. And while that can be a great thing, like fighting to get fair wages and the like, there is obviously the downside.

I agree with freedom of speech, but not what these 'people' picket about.

 

[beddo]

Anyone who dies fighting for there country is a hero, some people don't know the meaning of respect.

So does that mean that enemies of the US who die fighting are heroes?

To there country yes, im not american.

Heroes are like the people who went into No Man's Land in the Great War and World War 2, they knew they would die but they had the courage do give their lives for the 'greater good'.

However, I don't think that fighting for your country makes you a hero by default. Military personnel die in clashes while oppressing their own people. There are also war criminals who 'die for their country', I wouldn't say they are heroes. Moreover I wouldn't say that bombing civilian areas and using white phosphorus and dying in the process makes you a hero.

 

[Arcticflame]

Surely picketing somebodies funeral can be considered harassment?

I hate censorship, and I hate freedom being reduced, but in this case it's well past the bounds that even the most strident err.. freedom lover (cringe) can argue.

Yes the law needs to be just for all people, but when the law loses it's common sense, that isn't just.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Its the principle of the thing. Freedom of speech and all that should be for everyone. Not just for those whom you dont want to hear. These people are sick, depraved, and completely idiotic. But they have legal right (so far) to do what they do.

Its true, but sometimes people go too far. But what can you do? Its human nature, after all.

But what is too far? Are they promoting violence, calling people to hurt and kill gay people? If so, yes they shoud be dealth with, if not...well...free speech is free speech, even though they're retards. Kinda sucks that burial grounds are public places. Maybe the actual burial process should be considered a personal affair, even though it's held on public ground.

 

[Jezzy54]

So, the Westboro Baptist Church believes their god kills random innocent people out of disapproval for a certain sexual orientation?
Well then, may their horrid monstrosity they call a god burn in a new level of hell reserved for psychopathic deities.

 

[Kevvers]

It sounds like a good argument for getting cremated. I think that crematoriums are private property.

 

[wgreer25]

I don't hate the idea of the ACLU, but I agree, these guys have been pissing me off. It's a funeral, show some respect for a man who died so that you could picket at all.

This is what you call irony.

I agree that Free speech means you will have to hear things that you don't agree with. It is Free to everyone, but there is something to be said for common decency and respect. If I were family/friends of someone who's funeral was crashed by these tards, I would protest outside thier church.

 

[Wadders]

The biker gang, Knights of the Last Crusade had the right idea.

I just looked them up on Google, they seem like awesome people. Have they beaten the shit outa the Westboro Baptist Church yet?

Please say yes...

With regards the the article, it's several years old, and I doubt I'll be saying anything about the subject that hasn't been said before.

I just wonder how the WBC haven't all been gunned down in the street yet. In a country with plenty of guns and lots of people, surely there is someone out there, some hero of decency, who can put an end to them...

So you're advocating murder to stem the freedom of speech and expression. Wow, what a hero, surely you would feel more at home in the Military Junta of Burma.

If you hate the rights given by the US Constitution then why don't you picket the Government to repeal the entire thing?

I am British, and therefore not affected by your constitution and whatnot (a simple click on my avatar would have taken you to my profile, and revealed as much to you, thus preventing you from making a simple mistake...) so I'm afraid your second paragraph is invalid.

However, with regards to your first paragraph, I do not hate freedom of speech and expression, and I have no wish to see them removed, or stemmed as you put it. Everyone, no matter what their belief, has a right to express their opinions.

However, some of the the ways in which the WBC choose to express their opinion are in my view, disgusting. Whether or not you consider soldiers to be heroes, you can't deny that doing what they (the WBC) do at funerals is extremely disrespectful and indecent. I don't know if you have ever been unlucky enough to attend the funeral of a loved one, but if you have I'm sure you can imagine the anger and disgust you would feel if a troupe of unwanted bigots arrived during the proceedings and began to preach their craziness. Sure, the WBC can continue to preach their hate from their churches, TV shows, whatever. It's a foul message, but I can't deny their right to deliver it.

If they stuck to the more conventional methods I mentioned, then I would have (slightly) less of an issue with them, but the whole funeral thing suggests that they are bereft of some kind of basic human empathy, putting them upon a similar sort of level as animals...

Good day.