Adam Sessler and his God of War Ascension Review: Bro's Before Ho's

[norashepard]

I really respect Adam for getting mad at the 'right' part of it. Obviously the GOW games aren't the best examples of chivalry out there, but there really is nothing wrong with a man and a woman fighting, or even a man stomping a woman's head in, at least not in gendered terms. It's still pretty not cool to stomp people's heads in, just to be clear. Don't do that. But I like that he felt wrong about the part that turned it into a joke and a reward, instead of just shouting "Woman gets hit! Sexism!"

Still never gonna buy those games though. If I need crazy bald dudes beating the crap out of people, I'll play Saints Row.

 

[SonOfMethuselah]

I thought it was a fairly well-rounded critique. It makes sense in the context that he presents it, at least as far as I'm concerned. I like Sess, and he usually has all his ducks in a row when it comes to stuff like this, and I see nothing different here.

I'll give Adam some credit if he makes a fuss over the widow maker trophy in Tomb Raider.

Tara Long reviewed Tomb Raider, so unless he talks about it in a Sessler's Something down the line, he won't be addressing it at all.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

The funny part of all this is that if this would of happened to a man instead of a woman there would of been no problem. I haven't played any GoW games but I've seen footage. No one complained about Kratos ripping a man's head off with his bare hands during a QTE (people who played this game know who I'm referring too).

But, if it happens to a woman, it results in controversy and talk of misogyny. The game is M (mature) rated with gore and violence. If you can't handle it, don't play it, simple as that. Same thing happened when shooting people or violence is ignored but anything revolving skimpy outfits,boobs or sexual content, everyone is up at arms. I find it rather pathetic.

It's not the first trophy that I see to have such titles. Others mentioned Tomb Raider trophy that no one seems to be bothered with.

PS: I'm sorry if I offended women of the Escapist with this post.

 

[Zhukov]

Guys! Guys! Guys!

It's not the actual violence itself Sessler's critical of. It's the trophy you get afterwards. The trophy which says Bro's before Ho's. The trophy that squarely frames the violence in gendered terms.

Look, I know some of you hate the feminazis, and think any attempt at gender debate is "OMG stop overreacting!" but please read or listen to what is beign said here. Sessler clearly says that the act itself was not what he had an issue with, as it is pretty standard for the God Of War series. Anyone remember how Kratos kills Hera in GOW3? The issue here is the way the game rewards you for doing so in a way that roots the act squarely in misogynistic terms.

I know this prolly won't change anything, but I hope the majority of Escapists here are able to differentiate between what they think is being said, and what is actually being said.

Y'know, there are times when I want to strangle you.

There are also times when I want to buy you a beer.

This is one of the latter kind.

The funny part of all this is that if this would of happened to a man instead of a woman there would of been no problem. I haven't played any GoW games but I've seen footage. No one complained about Kratos ripping a man's head off with his bare hands during a QTE (people who played this game know who I'm referring too).

But, if it happens to a woman, it results in controversy and talk of misogyny. The game is M (mature) rated with gore and violence. If you can't handle it, don't play it, simple as that. Same thing happened when shooting people or violence is ignored but anything revolving skimpy outfits,boobs or sexual content, everyone is up at arms. I find it rather pathetic.

It's not the first trophy that I see to have such titles. Others mentioned Tomb Raider trophy that no one seems to be bothered with.

PS: I'm sorry if I offended women of the Escapist with this post.

You need to do two things.

1. Actually watch the video. If you've already done this, then watch it again while actually paying attention to what is being said.

2. Read the post quoted above.

Sessler clearly states that the actual scene, while a bit icky, is justified in context. What he has a problem with is the way that the game then turns around and says, "Hurr, hurr, fuck dem hos, right?"

 

[Darken12]

To all the people who say "it wouldn't have been such an outrage if it had been a male enemy." Actually, there is very little sexism in male-on-male violence (unless the reason for such violence is that one man is acting in "feminine ways", which implies that femininity in men is wrong and worthy of punishment/violence) or female-on-female violence.

If Kratos had been a woman and the boss had been a man, and the trophy had been labelled "chicks before dicks", there would be an outcry of "MISANDRY!!11!" and "THE POOR MENZ! WE ARE ALWAYS THE VICTIMS!" the likes of which have yet to be seen in the videogame industry.

So let's not kid ourselves, shall we.

OT: Good on him for pointing that out. I refuse to touch the GoW series precisely because of the sexism, so it doesn't surprise me.

 

[Smeggs]

I'll give Adam some credit if he makes a fuss over the widow maker trophy in Tomb Raider.

Weren't guns regularly referred to as "Widowmakers" in the 1800 to early 1900's?

The funny part of all this is that if this would of happened to a man instead of a woman there would of been no problem. I haven't played any GoW games but I've seen footage. No one complained about Kratos ripping a man's head off with his bare hands during a QTE (people who played this game know who I'm referring too).

But, if it happens to a woman, it results in controversy and talk of misogyny. The game is M (mature) rated with gore and violence. If you can't handle it, don't play it, simple as that. Same thing happened when shooting people or violence is ignored but anything revolving skimpy outfits,boobs or sexual content, everyone is up at arms. I find it rather pathetic.

It's not the first trophy that I see to have such titles. Others mentioned Tomb Raider trophy that no one seems to be bothered with.

PS: I'm sorry if I offended women of the Escapist with this post.

Sessler has already commented that it wouldn't matter if it was a man or a woman, and that his problem isn't with the violence, as the violence is acceptable given the overall tone and background of the series, but the obvious lack of thought and bigotry in the naming of the achievement is what he had a problem with.

If you were playing GTA and you suddenly got an achievement for running over men or women specifically, would you not have a problem with that? "ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED: Should Have Stayed in the Kitchen-Run over fifty women in a Pickup-5 Gamerscore"

I really respect Adam for getting mad at the 'right' part of it. Obviously the GOW games aren't the best examples of chivalry out there, but there really is nothing wrong with a man and a woman fighting, or even a man stomping a woman's head in, at least not in gendered terms. It's still pretty not cool to stomp people's heads in, just to be clear. Don't do that. But I like that he felt wrong about the part that turned it into a joke and a reward, instead of just shouting "Woman gets hit! Sexism!"

Still never gonna buy those games though. If I need crazy bald dudes beating the crap out of people, I'll play Saints Row.

I'm not sure you can even compare the fury as a woman, she was a grotesque, quite large demonic entity, wasn't she? Genitalia aside, killing demons is pretty much justified hands down.

 

[Professor Lupin Madblood]

You know, I was just watching that video. Sessler fell off my radar after he left XPlay and XPlay went downhill, but it's great to discover that he's doing videos like this. Just hearing his voice brings back some nostalgia of when G4 was watchable.

OT:

Would he have had the same issue had the boss been male?
If no, then he's reaching for offense, and honestly I would think Sessler would be better than that.
If yes, then he's misusing the term "misogyny", and honestly I would think Sessler would be better than that.

This.
Sometimes I think people just want to be outraged at something, no matter how petty it is.

The funny part of all this is that if this would of happened to a man instead of a woman there would of been no problem.

. . . Did you guys actually watch the video? I'm curious.

The joke wouldn't have made any kind of sense if the boss or bosses were male. If a man (Kratos) kills another man, the phrase "Bros before Hoes" would have ZERO applicability. Like, none. At all. You can't even say that it was just Kratos dudebro-ing it up with his dudebros because it's (to my knowledge) just Kratos by himself. You can't genderswap something like this and claim it as a double standard when the entire thing hinges upon the victim being of a particular gender.

Kratos stomping faces in is fine, male or female. He's done far worse throughout the series, as Sessler mentions. However, rewarding the player (not the player character, the player) for doing this act of violence in a way that actively belittles the Fury for her gender is sexist, or misogynistic, or whichever word is most applicable. It's disgusting, and the GoW developers should be above crap like that.

 

[liger03]

Seriously, can we just edit into the top post that it's the achievement that's misogynist? NOT just the violence? Nobody seems to be getting that.

What really gets to me is how it kills the mood the series is trying to generate. This is a game about a hero seeking retribution for what he's been forced to do, and how he regrets it, and then it gives players a trophy with a childish sexist remark. Nobody actually finds it insulting for the game to essentially state that you're just playing gore porn? Did Sony reveal that they gave up on the story of God of War and now it's just intended to be gore porn?

 

[DarkhoIlow]

I'll give Adam some credit if he makes a fuss over the widow maker trophy in Tomb Raider.

Weren't guns regularly referred to as "Widowmakers" in the 1800 to early 1900's?

Though I would like to see if he brings that up as well.

The funny part of all this is that if this would of happened to a man instead of a woman there would of been no problem. I haven't played any GoW games but I've seen footage. No one complained about Kratos ripping a man's head off with his bare hands during a QTE (people who played this game know who I'm referring too).

But, if it happens to a woman, it results in controversy and talk of misogyny. The game is M (mature) rated with gore and violence. If you can't handle it, don't play it, simple as that. Same thing happened when shooting people or violence is ignored but anything revolving skimpy outfits,boobs or sexual content, everyone is up at arms. I find it rather pathetic.

It's not the first trophy that I see to have such titles. Others mentioned Tomb Raider trophy that no one seems to be bothered with.

PS: I'm sorry if I offended women of the Escapist with this post.

Sessler has already commented that it wouldn't matter if it was a man or a woman, and that his problem isn't with the violence, as the violence is acceptable given the overall tone and background of the series, but the obvious lack of thought and bigotry in the naming of the achievement is what he had a problem with.

If you were playing GTA and you suddenly got an achievement for running over men or women specifically, would you not have a problem with that? "ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED: Should Have Stayed in the Kitchen-Run over fifty women in a Pickup-5 Gamerscore"

That would probably be annoying and be slightly surprised , but not bring me to the point to outrage at. It's distasteful, I agree, but pointing the finger at such a petty thing is just simply just throwing gasoline on a small fire which can turn into inferno if people continue to talk about this.

 

[IanDavis]

You'll have to put his criticism in contest as well. If it was just a one-off thing, you could just shrug your shoulders and say "well, that was stupid, anyways..." but it's not. There's a pretty long history of this stuff in gaming, and the more you know about it, the more you notice it. GOW:A is just the latest in a long line of "boys club" ideology.

 

[deserteagleeye]

I cringed when I read the trophy name but I felt like there just wasn't much thought behind it. I didn't feel like it was pointed at women offensively, more like they just scrambled for a phrase relevant to the achievement.

 

[Yeager942]

I'm inclined to agree with him. It would leave a bad taste in my mouth as well.

 

[sammysoso]

As far as the violence goes, it's brutal, but par for the course. Doesn't really bother me.

That achievement though, is tacky at best. Someone should have really thought that one through.

 

[tautologico]

Ah, always the false equivalences... "would he be so enraged if it was a man?" and stuff. This as almost always as stupid as asking "Why a t-shirt saying '100% Black' is acceptable, but a t-shirt with '100% White' would be racist?". Yeah, let's ignore all cultural and historical context, let's do that, and say that people are just "looking for things to get offended".

 

[Vault101]

the ing that bothers me is the "bro's before ho's" thing was just....y'know one of those "kind of sexist but not really" frathouse mentality things

but associating it with kicking a owman in the face? yeah thats disturbing

Well that's pretty fuckin' dumb.
But, to be honest, I do think God of War IS a `frat house joke`.

Inb4 OMG WHY DO PEOPLE HAVE OPINIONS ABOUT THIS AND WHY CAN'T THEY JUST BE COOL ABOUT THIS LIKE I AM?!??!

wel geez what ever happned to having fun? why do we have to have all this story..and themes and "thinking" bullshit

what happned to games where you could stomp some ho's in the face?

 

[Xdeser2]

He's pretty much right

Its a bit Fucked up IMO

 

[carlh267]

Guys! Guys! Guys!

It's not the actual violence itself Sessler's critical of. It's the trophy you get afterwards. The trophy which says Bro's before Ho's. The trophy that squarely frames the violence in gendered terms.

Look, I know some of you hate the feminazis, and think any attempt at gender debate is "OMG stop overreacting!" but please read or listen to what is beign said here. Sessler clearly says that the act itself was not what he had an issue with, as it is pretty standard for the God Of War series. Anyone remember how Kratos kills Hera in GOW3? The issue here is the way the game rewards you for doing so in a way that roots the act squarely in misogynistic terms.

I know this prolly won't change anything, but I hope the majority of Escapists here are able to differentiate between what they think is being said, and what is actually being said.

I find it sad that the people who actually watched the video and understand what its discussing, like you and me, far outnumber the people who automatically start bashing Sessler as part of the gamer-feminazi movement. Shows how many people actually watched the link.

 

[shrekfan246]

I'd say in Kratos' case, the correct word would be misanthropy. Between the minotaurs, harpies, gorgons, gods, humans and whatever other mooks fall prey to his blades, I don't think he discriminates against a specific gender. He just hates everyone and everything, including himself.

I don't disagree with that assessment.

I just disagree with the belief that there's anything more to this "Bros Before Hos" trophy than a silly, stupid term being used because they wanted a silly, stupid term.

There are tons of achievements in tons of games with stupid, ridiculous, or funny names, even when it breaks the theme the game is actually trying to go for. I fail to see how the use of a dumb term in a dumb way is in any way misogynistic. And I'm sure that I'll get tons of quotes anyway, explaining in excruciating detail how I'm wrong...