Adult games

[Saiz]

No, I'm not talking about presence of sexually explicit content (if side boobs and awkwardly animated kisses count towards that quota). So let me explain.

Not too long ago I played this really awesome game called Crusader Kings II [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gke4pJ5OtIQ]. Learning curve was dramatic but once I managed to figure out the UI I got positively one of the most rewarding and intense gaming experiences ever. The game just handed me those incredibly awkward but very plausible developments (Gods spread cheeks only t ram cock in ass sort of awkward). After spending several dozen hours on the game I thought "wow, a game that doesn't treat me like an idiot!". *applause* I felt relieved because after trying to get into current-gen garbage like recent Tomb Raider or heavens forbid a BioWare game I was afraid my gaming spirit had died. Turns out - it didn't, as I did enjoy number of recent games aside from CKII - namely Witcher 2, Spec Ops: The Line and Max Payne 3. Then I began thinking what those games have in common and then it suddenly hit on me: They are not games that average teenage gamer would appreciate for their message (nothing from with being young I was once too, just so we are clear that I'm not trying to bash). They are adult games that show that no matter how careful you plan, life is truly a fu*ked up lesson that you learn only when you're through. And I enjoyed them immensely. Then I began digging for games of similar depth and came up with nothing much, really. So I'm asking The Escapist community to help me rediscover my gaming by suggesting similar "serious" games that doesn't treat the player like an idiot. Like the games I've described above: Crusader Kings 2, Witcher 2, max Payne 3, Spec Ops: The Line. Gritty, clever, often unfair and something that leaves you wondering long after you've finished it.

I don't mind if you find all this pretentious as it certainly is to some extent - but I'd prefer the feedback/discussion/suggestions to be as informative as possible.

 

[Karoshi]

Fallout: New Vegas is the most mature game I know, to be honest. While Spec Ops: The Line is my most favourite game of all times, I have to admit that F:NV is a lot more subtle and smarter about its story.

F:NV is very realistic in its portrayal of people, factions and even such things like water access, supply lines and settlement defences. Your choices and the impact you can make is limited as well. Despite providing enough tools for a power fantasy, it's never quite enough. Some things are broken and you will not be able to fix them, however hard you try.

I love the amount of thought that went into the ideologies of different factions and their interactions. Somehow each factions has a strong link to its past, presence and future and together it makes the situation a complicated mess - even inside the faction itself.

Its DLC deserve another mention. Dead Money had enough innovative mechanics to make it a great stand-alone game and imo it almost overshadows the rest of the game. Other people prefer Honest Hearts or the Lonesome Roads, or Old World Blues for its humour. Before F:NV I absolutely hated DLC and now I'm a believer.

 

[Professor Lupin Madblood]

Red Dead Redemption.

It's a western set in 1910. The first thing you see in the game is a car, and the first mission consists of a conversation had while riding a horse, at the end of which the hero gets shot.

There's a huge amount of depth to the world and controls, and the game is littered with mature, no-clear-right-or-wrong narratives and decisions on both the player's part and the player character's part.

Infamous (and to a lesser degree Infamous 2).

Probably the most mature superhero story in recent memory.[footnote]I don't consider The Dark Knight movies to be a true superhero story.[/footnote] Most superhero stories are either hopelessly optimistic or hopelessly cynical, but Infamous walks a very fine line between them. It has its bright and dark moments, and through the whole experience, it makes sure to stress that they are both necessary parts of both life and superheroism.

or heavens forbid a BioWare game

I don't quite get what you mean by this.

 

[Lt._nefarious]

Dark Souls. The game is foreboding, it hates you and takes every chance to punish the slightest error with pain. The story is also kind of fucked up if you take the time to search out all the meaning.

Silent Hill Downpour and Homecoming. Pretty dark and twisted storylines, not quite as good as Silent Hill 2 or 3. The combat in Homecoming has a lot of skill to getting it right without dying and some very tricky bosses where as Silent Hill Downpour pretty much just tells you to run the fuck away from everything.

Condemned (and Condemned 2, a bit). Truly skill based and intense first person brawling and a very scary and dark atmosphere.

Bioshock (all of them). You'd have to crank them up to max difficulty for a challenge but the storyline is mature, I'd say one of the best. And the world(s) are fabulous.

Manhunt. Hard and dark. You probably already know all about Manhunt though.

 

[IllumInaTIma]

There are so many definitions of "Mature games" that I start to get confused...
Well, for me the most mature games are Persona 3 and Persona 4, mainly because they talk about something that no other game talked before (or at the very least I haven't played any other game that talked about it).
Persona 3 talks about death, depression, suicide, loss of meaning in life. It shows how even the most childish person (Junpei) can grow up, get his priorities straight, suddenly become the most rational person in room and still keep his identity. It shows how even the strongest group of friends can become bitter and lose everything they fought for.
And don't even get me started on Persona 4, the game that talks about society, self-identification, sexuality, and gender like no other game.
Does this counts as mature?

 

[lRookiel]

Dark Souls. The game is foreboding, it hates you and takes every chance to punish the slightest error with pain. The story is also kind of fucked up if you take the time to search out all the meaning.

Oh god I love the story of Dark souls, it leaves some of it to the players imagination which I find spectacular :3

OT: Dark souls for the reason stated above.

 

[Bostur]

If you don't mind something a little old then Planescape: Torment deals with themes that are more mature in nature. It's an old tactical RPG with the same formula as Baldur's Gate. The UI takes some getting used to and combat is not its strong suit, but dialogue and story is far beyond anything Bioware could whip up.
http://www.gog.com/gamecard/planescape_torment

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri is another old classic that I'd say is meant for older players. It touches on a variety of philosophical and social topics, but mostly it's just a very good 4x game. 4x games in general is very good for an adult audience so there is also the whole Civilization series to consider.
http://www.gog.com/gamecard/sid_meiers_alpha_centauri

Psychonauts looks silly, whimsical and childish, but it treats the player as a grown up, and the same can be said about most games from Double Fine. Unfortunately it is a 3D platformer, not the best genre of gameplay invented, and at times the difficulty is brutal. It has some fairly good puzzle gameplay as well.
http://www.gog.com/gamecard/psychonauts

Alan Wake is a game with very good writing and a splendid atmosphere. It has a mix of very good storytelling and some light shooting gameplay. The shooting is more of a side dish, but the mix is very good and the shooting supports the suspense and storytelling.
http://www.gog.com/gamecard/alan_wake

Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines is an FPS/RPG hybrid. Old and ugly but with good dialogue and plot.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/2600/?snr=1_7_15__13

 

[Bad Jim]

If you like Crusader King 2, perhaps you would like:

Total War series. Ignore Empire and Napoleon, the engine doesn't handle guns well. Pick Rome, Medieval or Shogun.
Europa Universalis series
Heroes of Might and Magic 3

If you really, really want to go hardcore, try getting into Dwarf Fortress. Getting into Dwarf Fortress is a substantial achievement in itself.

Other games with minimal handholding:

FTL
Nethack
XCOM: UFO Defense aka UFO: Enemy Unknown. The old one. I don't have the new XCOM: Enemy Unknown but I heard they 'simplified' a few too many things.
Core Wars - A programming game. With real programming involved.
Minecraft - Survival and later conquest is pretty easy. But it makes up for it with freedom. You can make all sorts of stuff in Minecraft. Someone even made a functional computer in it. Get the Tekkit mod

Also, try playing the original Tomb Raider. The original has some clever puzzles. I was tearing my hair out in Natla's Mine.

 

[MysticSlayer]

The S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games are exceptionally challenging. I've only played Shadow of Chernobyl and Call of Pripyat, but I hear Clear Sky is the hardest (to an unfair degree), and part of the reason why I haven't played Clear Sky is because I can't imagine the series getting harder than the two I've played without resorting to pure cheating. While I did find the games to get a little easier as time progresses and you get far superior weapons and armor, even at Normal it is still harder than a lot of modern shooters are at their hardest difficulty, and the easier difficulty later on can be easily overcome by just putting the game's difficulty up one notch.

Metro 2033 is a lot like S.T.A.L.K.E.R., and it was even made by some of the same people who worked on Shadow of Chernobyl. It's more linear, but it hardly holds your hand. Personally I found the game to be more challenging in the long run, as you don't need to put up the difficulty to overcome the ease that better weapons give you.

Super Meat Boy...This game doesn't even try to hide the fact it's trolling you. A few levels can potentially kill you within two seconds if you don't get off to a running start. They even have a boss based around the assumption that you've died a lot, and I mean a LOT, before you reach him.

Finally, in a less "let's see how many times we can kill you" sense, Braid is truly a challenge in terms of its puzzles. Along with not clearly explaining all of its mechanics, forcing you to figure out the intricacies of each one, it can take a substantial amount of time to figure out each puzzle. It's impossible to die and the boss battles are ridiculously easy because of it, but most of the game really is a challenge.

Those are the four I tend to think of when I think of games that really challenge you and don't apologize for it. A lot of Nintendo games now will add a "Super Guide" that is essentially them saying, "Sorry we made the game too difficult. Here, let us beat it for you!" So even though many of those are challenging (ex. Donkey Kong Country Returns and Super Mario Galaxy 2), they really miss the point of a challenging game. Yeah, the Super Guides are optional, but they're pretty obnoxious in their effort to get you to use them.

 

[Raikas]

I felt relieved because after trying to get into current-gen garbage like recent Tomb Raider or heavens forbid a BioWare game I was afraid my gaming spirit had died. Turns out - it didn't, as I did enjoy number of recent games aside from CKII - namely Witcher 2, Spec Ops: The Line and Max Payne 3. Then I began thinking what those games have in common and then it suddenly hit on me: They are not games that average teenage gamer would appreciate for their message (nothing from with being young I was once too, just so we are clear that I'm not trying to bash).

I don't really see the distinction that you're making between adolesent and adult here. Serious vs. frivious I would agree with, but that's hardly the same thing. Personally, I would have loved Spec Ops: The Line as a teenager because I was very taken with dark/non-heroic military stories (I blame the WWI poetry we had to study in school), while as an adult I was impressed that they went against expectations the way they did, but I was more taken with the effort than with the end product.

On the other hand, for all its flaws (and yes, they were multitude), I thought the central message of Dragon Age 2 (you can't save everyone/you can't control the flow of history) was a surprisingly realistic and (despite your "heaven forbid a Bioware game") mature theme for a fluffy fantasy game.

Total agreement with the fos who mentioned The Walking Dead - that worked very well.

Those are the four I tend to think of when I think of games that really challenge you and don't apologize for it.

I think the OP was talking content more than gameplay, no?

 

[michiehoward]

OT but, love the Batiatus quote.

 

[Maximum Bert]

Super Mario Galaxy 2 sounds right up your alley. Give it a look, especially if you havn't played a Mario game before.

Noooooooo you fool the original Galaxy is far superior or maybe not thats just my feelings but someones first mario game should always be Super Mario Bros maybe not the greatest one but its still great and a true classic.

As for OP if you want games with depth single player games arent the way to go unless you want maybe in-depth stories but then read a book instead the most in depth gameplay comes from competitive games or rather strong competitive games usually in strategy or fighting games.

 

[Jazoni89]

L.A Noire is a very mature game, and so is Heavy Rain to a lesser extent.

The best thing about them is that they treat the player as an adult, rather than a small ADD child like something that God of War is trying it's best to appeal to.

 

[Phlakes]

I haven't played more than the first chapter of TelltaleGames' Walking Dead, but from having played the first episode of five and having a bit of the second spoiled alone, totally disregarding what everybody else says about it, that its one of these adult-content types of games. Now throw in the fact that everybody who has played them says the same things about it, and while I normally don't recommend games I haven't finished, I think I could recommend Telltale Games' The Walking Dead. Episode 1 is, in its two hours, one of the most touching gamin experiences I've ever had.

This so hard. It doesn't pull its punches a single bit, and considering the center of it is taking care of a kid it's already hitting adult themes. Even if you can't really get into the gameplay (since there's barely any) it's still a masterpiece narratively.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

To bring a couple MMOs into the fold, I'd say War Thunder(essentially IL-2 Sturmovik the MMO, made by the same people) and World of Tanks bridge the gap quite neatly. A lot of people play those games and are utterly terrible at first, I know I was, well, less at War Thunder because I understand air combat to a degree in the first place. These are games where you slowly refine the way you play every game.

You discover how best to play your vehicle in WoT, you learn to angle your armor, hide the weaknesses in your armor when you can and you get so, so, much better results in just about everything you drive. Then you start learning the weaknesses of your enemies and people start screaming, "OMG HAX! MY ARMOR IS IMPENETRABLE" at you when you keep shooting them in their weakspot they didn't know existed. I've gotten reported by so many morons that way.

War Thunder is all about energy and understanding your capabilities and your enemies capabilities. Some planes climb better, others do better at low altitudes. Some planes are better in a dive, some are just workhorses that can take a beating.

These are mature games because, while you can just do whatever and try to have fun, they reward tactical thinking and pre-planning to a degree that a more skilled player has a massive advantage an even engagement. In the multiplayer modes of some other games, it's usually reaction based rather than any kind of skill.

 

[MysticSlayer]

Those are the four I tend to think of when I think of games that really challenge you and don't apologize for it.

I think the OP was talking content more than gameplay, no?

I was somewhat confused by the OP. He commented on liking games that don't make him feel like an idiot and linked to a video that talks more about gameplay than story (at least I found the talk about gameplay to dominate most of it), yet the rest of the post seemed to be talking about story. In the end, I just decided to talk about gameplay that doesn't make you feel like an idiot and actually treats you as an adult that can figure things out rather than storytelling, considering I really have never found the dark, gritty, "Oh my god, the world is so fucked up" story telling to really be "adult-oriented".

Anyways, I guess I owe it to the OP to talk about stories that are a little more on line with what he was talking about:

L.A. Noire. The story is an interesting glimpse into the corruption that permeates every aspect of life, both at the societal level and personal level. It isn't afraid to delve into the more controversial aspects of the late 1940s (primarily the racism), and it also offers some thought-provoking ideas regarding how we deal with crime, primarily the drug trade. Also, it's one of only a few stories I've seen that talks about politics and religion in both a realistic fashion and one that doesn't automatically say "If you're [insert political or religious affiliation here], then you are crazy and/or evil!" It just presents the characters' own ideas about politics and religion and shows how these ideas interact with each other.

BioShock. While some argument could probably be made for all three games in the series, I found the first to really handle itself the best in this regard. Not only does it bring up questions about the role of government and religion in society, but it also explores the ideas of objectivism, so long as you try to relate the different areas you visit to Ryan's opening speech and developing character and understand that some levels, particularly late game, explore the effects of his ideas more than the ideas themselves.

I think it goes without saying that both of these games are rather dark and gritty. BioShock is a little heavy-handed in its despondency, but L.A. Noire presents a more realistic view of life, ups and downs included, even if most of the game focuses on the darker side of life.

 

[RicoADF]

*snip*
I don't mind if you find all this pretentious as it certainly is to some extent - but I'd prefer the feedback/discussion/suggestions to be as informative as possible.

I'd suggest the ArmA series (2 and 3 especially), including the mod Day Z and it's stand alone. However their simulators, and their obviously games where learning how to play is part of the fun, and dieing is expected. I'm not sure if that's what your after or more story wise, in which case their lacking. It's the gameplay that's alone the style your speaking of.

 

[PoolCleaningRobot]

There are so many definitions of "Mature games" that I start to get confused...
Well, for me the most mature games are Persona 3 and Persona 4, mainly because they talk about something that no other game talked before (or at the very least I haven't played any other game that talked about it).
Persona 3 talks about death, depression, suicide, loss of meaning in life. It shows how even the most childish person (Junpei) can grow up, get his priorities straight, suddenly become the most rational person in room and still keep his identity. It shows how even the strongest group of friends can become bitter and lose everything they fought for.
And don't even get me started on Persona 4, the game that talks about society, self-identification, sexuality, and gender like no other game.
Does this counts as mature?

I definitely think it does. I just played persona 3 a few months ago and was completely blown away. It was the same feeling I got when I played spec ops: the line. It's so mature and interesting I almost didn't think games like this existed. You can almost learn something from every aspect of the game play. Like the social links, the way to increase them faster and become closer to others isn't always about saying things like "it's fine" but to actually telling people to do something and make a change. It's genius

Of course, that's only if Op can get past the gratuitous Japaneseness of it considering the game uses honorifics and everything (might help to look those up beforehand)

Edit: Someone already put forth Metro 2033 for different reasons but I think it applies to this thread. It's not exactly as adult as Spec Ops but it has some post apocalypse themes that are done pretty well. Like how the messed up world is mankind's punishment for for the nuclear war they caused