Adult games.

[Worgen]

Was it a feminist thing and if so how? I thought the rape scene in that was an outcome from one of the choices you could make since isn't it one of those that has multiple paths?

I haven't played it, but it must have been a Feminist thing. I mean, how else could a woke dude like Nathan Grayson and his woke buddies promote it? And how could it get released uncensored on Steam with no outcry?

The only other alternative is some kind of double standard being applied for some mysterious reason, and I'm not sure if we want to go down that rabbit hole. Again, I mean. But if we do, don't worry. I have a map.

I don't know who that is or what woke is and before you explain it, I have a feeling I don't care. Is there a double standard? There are more and more sex games showing up on steam uncensored or having an easy to install uncensor patch. One of the first I remember was Huniepop. So, I don't really see it.

 

[balladbird]

hmm... I hadn't thought of it before, but I suppose it kinda is a fairly common trait in the adult games I've played. Some of it is just cultural weirdness, I presume. for instance, there are a lot of scenes in japanese adult games where the girl says a LOT of "stop" and "no", but the context of the scene was a consensual and mutually desired sex scene... something that occurs so often I sometimes wonder if good japanese girls are just expected to say that kind of thing regardless of consent, as if it would be unladylike to be enjoying anything sexual. I have no hard evidence to support that, it's just a theory I have based on the media I've consumed, so treat it for the rumor mongering it is.

Even putting that aside, however, there is a lot of unambiguous rape in japanese porn games. Like, I absolutely love the unbridled zaniness of the Rance games, but geez, dude...

As to why that is, well, there are a variety of schools of thought that look at psychological and sociological foundations behind kinks, including rape fetishism and dom/sub and the like. I'm neither qualified nor interested enough to offer a properly informed opinion, but the general consensus of others is that sexual media depicting fictional rape/domination scenes are popularly consumed by a fairly large portion of individuals of both genders, that the media generally appeals to different psychological aspects of the people viewing it for reasons outside the act itself, and that the vast majority of the people who do indulge in those kinks are not rapists, nor likely to become such.

...which is all fine and good, but it doesn't do a lot to help those of us who want to play the occasional nukige but who don't have a fetish for that kind of thing. XD

 

[Worgen]

hmm... I hadn't thought of it before, but I suppose it kinda is a fairly common trait in the adult games I've played. Some of it is just cultural weirdness, I presume. for instance, there are a lot of scenes in japanese adult games where the girl says a LOT of "stop" and "no", but the context of the scene was a consensual and mutually desired sex scene... something that occurs so often I sometimes wonder if good japanese girls are just expected to say that kind of thing regardless of consent, as if it would be unladylike to be enjoying anything sexual. I have no hard evidence to support that, it's just a theory I have based on the media I've consumed, so treat it for the rumor mongering it is.

Even putting that aside, however, there is a lot of unambiguous rape in japanese porn games. Like, I absolutely love the unbridled zaniness of the Rance games, but geez, dude...

As to why that is, well, there are a variety of schools of thought that look at psychological and sociological foundations behind kinks, including rape fetishism and dom/sub and the like. I'm neither qualified nor interested enough to offer a properly informed opinion, but the general consensus of others is that sexual media depicting fictional rape/domination scenes are popularly consumed by a fairly large portion of individuals of both genders, that the media generally appeals to different psychological aspects of the people viewing it for reasons outside the act itself, and that the vast majority of the people who do indulge in those kinks are not rapists, nor likely to become such.

...which is all fine and good, but it doesn't do a lot to help those of us who want to play the occasional nukige but who don't have a fetish for that kind of thing. XD

I'm not convinced its just a cultural thing, we have it in the west too. I mean there was a number 1 song not too long ago about hearing a woman say no and interpreting it somewhat differently. Blurred lines if you were curious. Also we have the idea here about a good woman being almost childlike in her innocent and the sexy sex haver ones being evil or punished for their sex having ways. We even use rape as a punishment for bad characters. Wasn't it heavily implied that a teacher in Harry Potter who was a jerk was taken away by centaurs who according to the old myths are kinda rape monsters.

I suppose I'm not trying to judge someone being into it in a fantasy type environment but when I'm looking for a porn type game. I would much rather have some consensual sex between the characters. I don't even like the weird crying O face that seems to be really common in japanese porn.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

Was it a feminist thing and if so how? I thought the rape scene in that was an outcome from one of the choices you could make since isn't it one of those that has multiple paths?

I haven't played it, but it must have been a Feminist thing. I mean, how else could a woke dude like Nathan Grayson and his woke buddies promote it? And how could it get released uncensored on Steam with no outcry?

The only other alternative is some kind of double standard being applied for some mysterious reason, and I'm not sure if we want to go down that rabbit hole. Again, I mean. But if we do, don't worry. I have a map.

Maybe you should play it and see. I don't know if the game was feminist or even trying to be*... The game is weirder then I expected and I was expecting a weird game.

*Only time feminism is mentioned is in a joke. I thought the joke was cute at least.

 

[Schadrach]

I mean there can't be that many people who are into rape to get off, right?

You'd be surprised. You'd also be surprised how many of those are women, if you've ever been to any fanfiction site.

I don't think it's a Japan thing, but since Japan is the only country that makes "adult" games...

No need for fanfiction sites, there's wikipedia and actual studies:

A 1974 study by Hariton and Singer[1] found that being "overpowered or forced to surrender" was the second most frequent fantasy in their survey; a 1984 study by Knafo and Jaffe ranked being overpowered as their study's most common fantasy during intercourse. In 1985, Louis H. Janda who is an associate professor of psychology at Old Dominion University[2] said that the sexual fantasy of being raped is the most common sexual fantasy for women.[3] A 1988 study by Pelletier and Herold found that over half of their female respondents had fantasies of forced sex.[4]

Was it a feminist thing and if so how? I thought the rape scene in that was an outcome from one of the choices you could make since isn't it one of those that has multiple paths?

It got wildly disproportionate press for what it was, especially from "feminist" sites, mostly because it was both about queer women and made by one. And yeah, Christine Love removed a scene from it, but the issue wasn't that it was coerced sex, but that it was a man doing it. Interestingly, there's a lot of overlap between folks angry about this being changed and complaining about the author being pressured into it and folks taking the "private business decision" approach to other similar cases. Funny that.

for instance, there are a lot of scenes in japanese adult games where the girl says a LOT of "stop" and "no", but the context of the scene was a consensual and mutually desired sex scene... something that occurs so often I sometimes wonder if good japanese girls are just expected to say that kind of thing regardless of consent, as if it would be unladylike to be enjoying anything sexual.

I'm in the US, and I've dated a couple of ladies who got mad at me for stopping when they told me to stop, because apparently they wanted to be "forced", even though they were actually into it. I made them agree to a safe word before we did anything else, because that's...just not a thing I'm willing to risk. So definitely not just a Japanese thing.

 

[CaitSeith]

@Worgen
Some context is required. Which "porn type" games are you talking about?

 

[Marik2]

Why do so many porn type games involve rape? I mean I know not all of them do, Sakura Dungeon, despite the name is all consensual and its awesome but why do so many of the other ones always go with rape? Its fucken weird. I mean there can't be that many people who are into rape to get off, right?

I guess it's because Japan has a low rape rate that they can get away with it.

 

[Worgen]

@Worgen
Some context is required. Which "porn type" games are you talking about?

Really any, it seems to be pretty common no matter the genre. Like if its a 2d platformer then when you lose your character tends to get rapped, if its a vn then those seem to have it, if its an rpg then your character is probably forced into sex either by losing teh fight or the story. Even Senran Kagura, which isn't porn was kinda rapy with the weird looks the defeated girls give straight to the camera with tears in their eyes, almost as if to say "Onisempie, noooooo."

Why do so many porn type games involve rape? I mean I know not all of them do, Sakura Dungeon, despite the name is all consensual and its awesome but why do so many of the other ones always go with rape? Its fucken weird. I mean there can't be that many people who are into rape to get off, right?

I guess it's because Japan has a low rape rate that they can get away with it.

Except as I literally said before, western games do it too.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Why do so many porn type games involve rape? I mean I know not all of them do, Sakura Dungeon, despite the name is all consensual and its awesome but why do so many of the other ones always go with rape? Its fucken weird. I mean there can't be that many people who are into rape to get off, right?

I guess it's because Japan has a low rape rate that they can get away with it.

Except as I literally said before, western games do it too.

[http://www.memegenerator.es/meme/27271067]

 

[maninahat]

Ugh, no. While a lot of Japanese ones have it, a bunch of western ones have rape too.

Yep, like Ladykiller in a Bind. But that was clearly a very Feminist thing, since all the usual Feminist gaming sites were happy to shill the hell out of that one, to the triggering of many unsuspecting customers. So maybe that's what it's about, though I think the developer subsequently removed that scene or something.

Was it a feminist thing and if so how? I thought the rape scene in that was an outcome from one of the choices you could make since isn't it one of those that has multiple paths?

I've played the scene, which has since been completely removed. Basically your enemy from college demands sex from you (a self-identified lesbian disguised as a guy) in exchange for an important favour. You can easily nope your way out of it, but you can allow your protagonist to be coerced into sex they probably don't want.

The game is broadly about tenuous consentuality and coercion, so it kind of makes sense to have the scene in there, but understandably a lot of people thought it went too far. It is a feminist game, in as much as it looks at queer identity politics, female sexual promiscuity and gender norms. It is the thinking gamer's approach to eroge, made by someone who actually knows something about lesbian sex.

 

[maninahat]

Also, if you want decent adult games, look up Robert Yang's Radiator series for hilarious, gay, short form games. There's also the afore mentioned Ladykiller in a Bind, which was one of my favourite games of last year. Outside of that, sex really isn't a subject explored well enough. I think the problem is that you need quite a big budget to depict graphically realistic sex, and no. major company will ever put that much money forward. Instead it is left to indie game devs who sadly lack the clout to get a wider release, and they often find their games denied sale by digital retailers. Japan has a more permissive attitude to pornographic games, but sadly they seem to be way too into the rape/paedo stuff to garner broad enough acceptance in the West.

I think part of the problem is that most Porn (almost every bit of it) is made exclusively to appeal to heterosexual men, often at the expense of female audience members. That isn't to say women don't enjoy porn, but that the porn wasn't made to appeal to them in the first place. So rape scenarios are common, and told in such a way for the relish of male viewers. Even those women who have rape fantasies presumably have a different approach to its portrayal than what you get in most porn. Who knew, but yes porn could desperately do with trying to expand its audience by appealing to women more.

 

[Worgen]

Also, if you want decent adult games, look up Robert Yang's Radiator series for hilarious, gay, short form games. There's also the afore mentioned Ladykiller in a Bind, which was one of my favourite games of last year. Outside of that, sex really isn't a subject explored well enough. I think the problem is that you need quite a big budget to depict graphically realistic sex, and no. Anoor company will ever put that much money forward. Instead it is left to indie game debts who sadly lack the clout to get a wider release, and they often find their games denied sale by digital retailers. Japan has a more permissive attitude to pornographic games, but sadly they seem to be way into the rape/paedo stuff to garner broad enough acceptance in the West.

I think part of the problem is that most. Porn (almost every bit of it) is made exclusively to appeal to heterosexual men, often at the expense of female audience members. That isn't to say women don't enjoy porn, but that the porn wasn't made to appeal to them in the first place. So rape scenarios are common, and told in such a way for the relish of male viewers. Even those women who have rape fantasies presumably have a different approach to its portrayal than what you get in most porn. Who knew, but yes porn could desperately do with trying to expand its audience by appealing to women more.

I've only really played a handfull of adult games myself. Honeypop was the first one and it was quite good, fun characters and a nice match 3 game, its big weakness was that after you scored with any of the women they stopped being characters, like the only reason to talk to them again after was to get... resources. Breeding season was an interesting kinda monster breeding game thing but its development was canceled after drama. Really I think the best one I played was Sakura Dungeon, all the characters ended up being a lot of fun, the monster girls who joined you even had personality, the sex felt pretty natural and enjoyed by everyone and you were playing a 900 year old nine tails woman.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Also, if you want decent adult games, look up Robert Yang's Radiator series for hilarious, gay, short form games. There's also the afore mentioned Ladykiller in a Bind, which was one of my favourite games of last year. Outside of that, sex really isn't a subject explored well enough. I think the problem is that you need quite a big budget to depict graphically realistic sex, and no. Anoor company will ever put that much money forward. Instead it is left to indie game debts who sadly lack the clout to get a wider release, and they often find their games denied sale by digital retailers. Japan has a more permissive attitude to pornographic games, but sadly they seem to be way into the rape/paedo stuff to garner broad enough acceptance in the West.

I think part of the problem is that most. Porn (almost every bit of it) is made exclusively to appeal to heterosexual men, often at the expense of female audience members. That isn't to say women don't enjoy porn, but that the porn wasn't made to appeal to them in the first place. So rape scenarios are common, and told in such a way for the relish of male viewers. Even those women who have rape fantasies presumably have a different approach to its portrayal than what you get in most porn. Who knew, but yes porn could desperately do with trying to expand its audience by appealing to women more.

I've only really played a handfull of adult games myself. Honeypop was the first one and it was quite good, fun characters and a nice match 3 game, its big weakness was that after you scored with any of the women they stopped being characters, like the only reason to talk to them again after was to get... resources. Breeding season was an interesting kinda monster breeding game thing but its development was canceled after drama. Really I think the best one I played was Sakura Dungeon, all the characters ended up being a lot of fun, the monster girls who joined you even had personality, the sex felt pretty natural and enjoyed by everyone and you were playing a 900 year old nine tails woman.

Try Saya no Uta then. It's rather short for a VN and very high quality.

Maybe then you will see what I meant about the point regarding porn games vs adult games with sex scenes.

 

[maninahat]

Also, if you want decent adult games, look up Robert Yang's Radiator series for hilarious, gay, short form games. There's also the afore mentioned Ladykiller in a Bind, which was one of my favourite games of last year. Outside of that, sex really isn't a subject explored well enough. I think the problem is that you need quite a big budget to depict graphically realistic sex, and no. Anoor company will ever put that much money forward. Instead it is left to indie game debts who sadly lack the clout to get a wider release, and they often find their games denied sale by digital retailers. Japan has a more permissive attitude to pornographic games, but sadly they seem to be way into the rape/paedo stuff to garner broad enough acceptance in the West.

I think part of the problem is that most. Porn (almost every bit of it) is made exclusively to appeal to heterosexual men, often at the expense of female audience members. That isn't to say women don't enjoy porn, but that the porn wasn't made to appeal to them in the first place. So rape scenarios are common, and told in such a way for the relish of male viewers. Even those women who have rape fantasies presumably have a different approach to its portrayal than what you get in most porn. Who knew, but yes porn could desperately do with trying to expand its audience by appealing to women more.

I've only really played a handfull of adult games myself. Honeypop was the first one and it was quite good, fun characters and a nice match 3 game, its big weakness was that after you scored with any of the women they stopped being characters, like the only reason to talk to them again after was to get... resources. Breeding season was an interesting kinda monster breeding game thing but its development was canceled after drama. Really I think the best one I played was Sakura Dungeon, all the characters ended up being a lot of fun, the monster girls who joined you even had personality, the sex felt pretty natural and enjoyed by everyone and you were playing a 900 year old nine tails woman.

Try Saya no Uta then. It's rather short for a VN and very high quality.

Maybe then you will see what I meant about the point regarding porn games vs adult games with sex scenes.

(and also does have rape in it as well, if that matters to you).

 

[maninahat]

Was it a feminist thing and if so how? I thought the rape scene in that was an outcome from one of the choices you could make since isn't it one of those that has multiple paths?

I haven't played it, but it must have been a Feminist thing. I mean, how else could a woke dude like Nathan Grayson and his woke buddies promote it? And how could it get released uncensored on Steam with no outcry?

The only other alternative is some kind of double standard being applied for some mysterious reason, and I'm not sure if we want to go down that rabbit hole. Again, I mean. But if we do, don't worry. I have a map.

Actually the Grayson's/Rock Paper Shotgun's review specifically criticised the rape scene and said the game would be better without it. The dev removed it according to the general negative response the scene received. Considering the game is head and shoulders better than any other eroge game I've seen, it deserves whatever praise it gets, regardless of whether you think it is a feminist double standard to say so.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Also, if you want decent adult games, look up Robert Yang's Radiator series for hilarious, gay, short form games. There's also the afore mentioned Ladykiller in a Bind, which was one of my favourite games of last year. Outside of that, sex really isn't a subject explored well enough. I think the problem is that you need quite a big budget to depict graphically realistic sex, and no. Anoor company will ever put that much money forward. Instead it is left to indie game debts who sadly lack the clout to get a wider release, and they often find their games denied sale by digital retailers. Japan has a more permissive attitude to pornographic games, but sadly they seem to be way into the rape/paedo stuff to garner broad enough acceptance in the West.

I think part of the problem is that most. Porn (almost every bit of it) is made exclusively to appeal to heterosexual men, often at the expense of female audience members. That isn't to say women don't enjoy porn, but that the porn wasn't made to appeal to them in the first place. So rape scenarios are common, and told in such a way for the relish of male viewers. Even those women who have rape fantasies presumably have a different approach to its portrayal than what you get in most porn. Who knew, but yes porn could desperately do with trying to expand its audience by appealing to women more.

I've only really played a handfull of adult games myself. Honeypop was the first one and it was quite good, fun characters and a nice match 3 game, its big weakness was that after you scored with any of the women they stopped being characters, like the only reason to talk to them again after was to get... resources. Breeding season was an interesting kinda monster breeding game thing but its development was canceled after drama. Really I think the best one I played was Sakura Dungeon, all the characters ended up being a lot of fun, the monster girls who joined you even had personality, the sex felt pretty natural and enjoyed by everyone and you were playing a 900 year old nine tails woman.

Try Saya no Uta then. It's rather short for a VN and very high quality.

Maybe then you will see what I meant about the point regarding porn games vs adult games with sex scenes.

(and also does have rape in it as well, if that matters to you).

Spoilers! X.x

 

[CaitSeith]

@Worgen
EDIT: I mean, are these commercial games or underground games? I can see Japanese comercial games doing it, but Western ones?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

(and also does have rape in it as well, if that matters to you).

Spoilers! X.x

Content warning. Spoilers would be telling someone who, when, and why. [EDIT: And it's a fucked up Lovecraftian horror game, so you mileage may vary. Saying "it has rape in it" is selling Saya fantastically short]

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I haven't played it, but it must have been a Feminist thing. I mean, how else could a woke dude like Nathan Grayson and his woke buddies promote it? And how could it get released uncensored on Steam with no outcry?

The only other alternative is some kind of double standard being applied for some mysterious reason, and I'm not sure if we want to go down that rabbit hole. Again, I mean. But if we do, don't worry. I have a map.

Actually the Grayson's/Rock Paper Shotgun's review specifically criticised the rape scene and said the game would be better without it. The dev removed it according to the general negative response the scene received. Considering the game is head and shoulders better than any other eroge game I've seen, it deserves whatever praise it gets, regardless of whether you think it is a feminist double standard to say so.

Status Nil seems to think that if somebody routinely bashes bad representation or poor writing or what have you in games with a sexual bent, that means it's somehow a double standard if they have anything nice to say about a different game with the same broad (broad) themes.

Like, if I were to criticize Saint's Row 2 for its immature sense of humor for a crime game, but then thought Yakuza Zero was funny, that would be evidence of a double standard instead of evidence I thought those games were different.

 

[Ogoid]

Status Nil seems to think that if somebody routinely bashes bad representation or poor writing or what have you in games with a sexual bent, that means it's somehow a double standard if they have anything nice to say about a different game with the same broad (broad) themes.

Or he might be suspicious of his motives, since Grayson, paragon of journalistic ethics that he is, has been known for "having anything nice" to say about games made by personal friends and/or lovers without feeling the need to let his readers be aware of said relationships.