Adventure Time's Evolution

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Mid Boss

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Aug 20, 2012
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When Adventure Time started, it's was obvious Cartoon Network wanted an "on crack" cartoon to match the viral success of Spongebob Squarepants. They hired writers and producers FROM Spongebob for this purpose.

For the first season of Adventure Time, that's exactly what they got. The episodes were random. Had no continuity. And were bizarre to the point of being disturbing. It was a massive financial success which gave the creative team of the show more freedom to do what they wanted during the following seasons.

You'd think they'd push the envelope and make the show even more bizarre and random. Instead, Adventure Time took off in the exact opposite direction.

SPOILER ALERT!

While still hiding under the guise of a random, bizarre, children's cartoon it began to take on continuity and lay down the ground work for hidden, mature themes. The land of Ooo is actually Earth 1000 years after the "Mushroom War" which is a fun, child friendly way of saying Nuclear Apocalypse. Finn, at one point, sings a song passed down from his ancestors a song called "The Cloud" which is a song about running from the ravages and death of nuclear fallout. Finn himself is the last known living human on Earth. The rest of the inhabitants are magical creatures or mutants. This is only a couple examples of the MANY hidden themes going on in the show that its child audience would never catch but older viewers are eating up like candy.

From the second season on the characters start picking up significant back stories. Marcelline the vampire has daddy issues and has great trouble getting close to anyone. Princess Bubblegum is a borderline mad scientist who creates new, bizarre creatures on a whim. Some times with tragic results.

The Ice King.... The Ice King started out as a generic, princess kidnapping, ice wizard. As the season went on... Well the Ice King became quite possibly the most tragic character on television. One of the few living beings in the land that comes from before the mushroom war. His name was Simon and he was a kind, loving man. Then he found the Ice Crown. A cursed object of incredible power. It allowed him to survive the Mushroom War. Unfortunately, it inflicts its wearer a horrific combination of alzheimers and schizophrenia and the effects are permanent and irreversible by any known magic or science. Desperately lonely yet completely incapable of having any sort of functional relationship be it romantic or merely friendship. He occasionally has lucid moments where he wails and rages against the madness that's drowning him but these are rare and short lived.

Here we see the ending of "I Remember You" where Marcelline tries to reach him with song only to cry when she finds out nothing she can say will ever bring Simon back from the madness that has devoured him.


It's painfully similar to someone trying to reach a loved one with Alzheimers. It is the best example that Adventure Time is moving further and further away the crack cartoon it was originally meant to be.
 

Shadowstar38

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TheKasp said:
To be honest, I don't buy that. Humans are extinct for hundreds of years
Couldn't a small chunk of them have survived? That underground thing Susan Strong and the fish people were was more or less a fallout shelter wasn't it?

CrunkParty said:
When people on the internet oversell a cartoon it always creeps me out. Not to mention I just don't understand the whole phenomenon. Why watch a show that's only allowed, at best, to allude to mature themes when you can watch an adult show and get those mature themes more fleshed out and front/center? But nerds hate adult character dramas don't they? If it's not apathy (Mad Men, Boardwalk Empire, Six Feet Under) it's outright spite (24, LOST, Battlestar).

If I was a cynic I'd suggest these people just like the pretty colors and are reaching to find a more "hip" justification. That's if I was a cynic. You guys didn't see it but I just wiggled my eyebrows.
1) How in the heck do you oversell something you genuinely like? OP just went through why Adventure Time was good in the same way someone would analyse Mad Men to a person who hasn't seen it. He isn't holding up the show is the greatest thing in history while calling everything else utter shit like some twats are prone to do.

2)Nerds hate adult dramas? Well that both implies nerds are the demographic for this show, and that everyone who watches cartoons don't watch adult shows as well.
 

Eclipse Dragon

Lusty Argonian Maid
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I really like the direction the series is going.
Actually I prefer this to be the direction MOST series go. I love dynamic characters and Adventure Time has the potential to get into some really deep territory. Of course they can't be open about darker themes, but that in a way makes it more enjoyable.

I'm looking forward to seeing what's next after the way the finale ended.
Although, if they want to take a more story driven approach, we'll probably be seeing more two part episodes, so they can use the full half hour instead of the usual time length.
 

axlryder

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Jul 29, 2011
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CrunkParty said:
When people on the internet oversell a cartoon it always creeps me out. Not to mention I just don't understand the whole phenomenon. Why watch a show that's only allowed, at best, to allude to mature themes when you can watch an adult show and get those mature themes more fleshed out and front/center? But nerds hate adult character dramas don't they? If it's not apathy (Mad Men, Boardwalk Empire, Six Feet Under) it's outright spite (24, LOST, Battlestar).

If I was a cynic I'd suggest these people just like the pretty colors and are reaching to find a more "hip" justification. That's if I was a cynic. You guys didn't see it but I just wiggled my eyebrows.
24 and lost were written like shit after their first couple of seasons, so don't blame nerds for not getting into them because they're nerds. I'm pretty sure Battlestar has a decent fanbase in the nerd community. Also, a lot of shows possess characters or a tone that just don't click with people. I don't like shows with characters who take themselves too seriously, especially when the writing isn't very good. A lot of them are just totally visually uninteresting as well. That said, I'm loving the hell out of Breaking Bad right now (though the gorgeous cinematography fuels a lot of that love).

On the other hand, like Spongebob, Adventure time is pretty creative and has an amusing sense of humor. It also didn't set out to be anything great, so it's easier to keep your expectations of the writing lower. The thing is, when a show has an innocent or light veneer, it does a better job of being emotionally evocative when it begins to allude to darker or more mature themes (imo). More "mature" shows often just slather on the dark or adult themes to the point where it seems like the writers are going "Look! Look how dark and edgy we are!", which often, ironically, lends a very juvenile feel to a lot of them. Like a kid dressed up in his dad's clothes.

Now, I've never seen Mad Men, Boardwalk Empire or Six Feet Under, so I can't directly comment on those shows. I've been meaning to get around to watching Mad Men though (and not just for Christina Hendricks).
 

Mutie

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CrunkParty said:
When people on the internet oversell a cartoon it always creeps me out. Not to mention I just don't understand the whole phenomenon. Why watch a show that's only allowed, at best, to allude to mature themes when you can watch an adult show and get those mature themes more fleshed out and front/center? But nerds hate adult character dramas don't they? If it's not apathy (Mad Men, Boardwalk Empire, Six Feet Under) it's outright spite (24, LOST, Battlestar).

If I was a cynic I'd suggest these people just like the pretty colors and are reaching to find a more "hip" justification. That's if I was a cynic. You guys didn't see it but I just wiggled my eyebrows.
Dude, it's no secret that a great many people learn morals better through metaphor; it's one of the main reasons genre film in cinema became so successful, despite their origin as cash-cows. If there's one thing cartoons can do that a lot of adult media cannot, it's cast social and moral issue in a simplistic and easily relatable light. From this, the viewer can glean a great many beneficial influences, whilst still enjoying a show which doesn't infringe too heavily on the weight of their mind. Me? I'm a depressed, paranoid hypochondriac. Cartoons, fantasy films, horror and surrealist animation have always served me far better than some men talking in a room with a dramatic underscore.
 

Scarim Coral

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Err I pretty saure that it always intended to have a hidden/ subtle apocalypse undertone as a whole. I mean you can spot some of those references during the first season (e.g. in season 1, the episode Ocean of Fear you can see ruin building during the underwater scenes).
Ok I admit these days they are far more open about it.
 

Patrick Buck

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I... I've only really watched the first series. But I love it so much. It's great. And I've watched a couple of the Ice king specials ones.... and wow. That's possibly the sadest thing I've seen. It made me so depressed, I didn't watch any more adventure time until last week. (I stopped watching it for about 6 months.)
 

D-Class 198482

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Main thing I like about the show is the appearences of the characters. Sometimes so simple (Like Finn himself) or so complex (like the Lich) but sooner or later you'll see a real big, complex backstory to them. The fact that there are a lot of ruins of somewhat modern buildings everywhere made me think, and why the hell is there a hole on the planet?
But I never did think about a whole apocalypse-overtone to the show before, at least until we saw Finn in a hotel. So, what's this, a silly Fallout as a TV show?
is it wrong I want a Fallout movie/show now
 

BeerTent

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May 8, 2011
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My roommate just gave me this show a few days ago... And now this? 5 episodes in, I don't know if I can keep up with Adventure Time. D:
 

Vkmies

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Dude. I was just thinking the same thing as I watched the season finale 5 minutes ago! AT is incredibly deep nowadays, handling some serious subjects in serious ways. I rarely say these things about new things, but AT might be one of my favorite TV-shows ever now. Totally incredible. The Season 4 finale totally set up a huge plotline to follow during the next season, and hinted that the next season will include a lot of details about the world before the war.

TL;DR: Watch AT. Seriously. Best fucking show.
 

Vkmies

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Oct 8, 2009
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D-Class 198482 said:
Main thing I like about the show is the appearences of the characters. Sometimes so simple (Like Finn himself) or so complex (like the Lich) but sooner or later you'll see a real big, complex backstory to them. The fact that there are a lot of ruins of somewhat modern buildings everywhere made me think, and why the hell is there a hole on the planet?
But I never did think about a whole apocalypse-overtone to the show before, at least until we saw Finn in a hotel. So, what's this, a silly Fallout as a TV show?
is it wrong I want a Fallout movie/show now
As a fallout fan you probably already knew about this. But if you didn't... There is a great Fallout fan film which spawned an even better Fan series about fallout.
 

Mid Boss

Senior Member
Aug 20, 2012
274
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axlryder said:
CrunkParty said:
When people on the internet oversell a cartoon it always creeps me out. Not to mention I just don't understand the whole phenomenon. Why watch a show that's only allowed, at best, to allude to mature themes when you can watch an adult show and get those mature themes more fleshed out and front/center? But nerds hate adult character dramas don't they? If it's not apathy (Mad Men, Boardwalk Empire, Six Feet Under) it's outright spite (24, LOST, Battlestar).

If I was a cynic I'd suggest these people just like the pretty colors and are reaching to find a more "hip" justification. That's if I was a cynic. You guys didn't see it but I just wiggled my eyebrows.
24 and lost were written like shit after their first couple of seasons, so don't blame nerds for not getting into them because they're nerds. I'm pretty sure Battlestar has a decent fanbase in the nerd community. Also, a lot of shows possess characters or a tone that just don't click with people. I don't like shows with characters who take themselves too seriously, especially when the writing isn't very good. A lot of them are just totally visually uninteresting as well. That said, I'm loving the hell out of Breaking Bad right now (though the gorgeous cinematography fuels a lot of that love).

On the other hand, like Spongebob, Adventure time is pretty creative and has an amusing sense of humor. It also didn't set out to be anything great, so it's easier to keep your expectations of the writing lower. The thing is, when a show has an innocent or light veneer, it does a better job of being emotionally evocative when it begins to allude to darker or more mature themes (imo). More "mature" shows often just slather on the dark or adult themes to the point where it seems like the writers are going "Look! Look how dark and edgy we are!", which often, ironically, lends a very juvenile feel to a lot of them. Like a kid dressed up in his dad's clothes.

Now, I've never seen Mad Men, Boardwalk Empire or Six Feet Under, so I can't directly comment on those shows. I've been meaning to get around to watching Mad Men though (and not just for Christina Hendricks).
The best dramas, in my opinion, set up the characters and let you get to know, to like them, before they start tearing them down. Let's use Trigun as an example. For the first... 5? 6? episodes it's just slap stick humor as you watch Vash stumble and joke his way through everything. It alludes he's some super powered bad ass but he's never serious enough to actually show it.

Then Diablo shows up. The humor vanishes. People start to die. The main character is thrown into a moral dilemma where he has Diablo down and is holding a gun to his head. Diablo is a murdering monster who just killed half a town full of people but the main character has a belief that no matter what happens no one should ever have to die. He holds the gun to Diablo's head... for hours... crying because he's torn between his own beliefs and how much he desperately wants to kill this man.

This wouldn't have been HALF as powerful if we hadn't just spent 5 episodes getting to know the care free, happy person Vash is. Afterwards the humor comes back, you relax, then boom we're back to people dying. The show is a roller coaster that pulls your emotions in every direction and it's amazing. Firefly and Dr. Horrible did this as well. Joss Whedon loves this stuff. Same thing is happening in Adventure Time though it wont get anywhere near as dark as Trigun did. You feel bad for the Ice King because you just spent the past 4 seasons getting to know him. You laughed at his antics until you realize it's all a cry for help from a man who's desperately lonely but too insane to ever have a functioning relationship.

When a show throws you right into the drama. "Here feel bad for this person... because we told you to. Look how sad he is. He's at rock bottom and nothing we do to him will tear him down any lower than he was when we just met him." That's NOT effective drama. You don't feel for people you just met and for his situation to impact you you have to see him at his best before you see him at his worst otherwise his worst has no context.
 

DrDuckman

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Jun 25, 2012
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I think there is also a lot to be said about contrast. Drama in adventure time is far more effective than, say, mad men, simply because it contrasts so much with the show's usual tone. Our generation's preconceptions of cartoons as lighthearted comedy only also work in it's favor, in that respect. See Futurama's masterclass episode, Jurassic Bark, for an example of this. A cartoon series generally manages to blend comedy with the occasional splashes of drama and melancholy much easier, due to it's unrestricted nature.

Some really great live action comedy series have also achieved this, but it's rare. Generally the British ones do it better, like Black Adder. The dramatic ending of that show is far more poigrant than any I've seen in any dramatic series, simply because it contrasts so much with the show's comedic veneer. In addition, comedic characters are much easier to get attached to, and empathize with.
 
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CrunkParty said:
When people on the internet oversell a cartoon it always creeps me out. Not to mention I just don't understand the whole phenomenon. Why watch a show that's only allowed, at best, to allude to mature themes when you can watch an adult show and get those mature themes more fleshed out and front/center? But nerds hate adult character dramas don't they? If it's not apathy (Mad Men, Boardwalk Empire, Six Feet Under) it's outright spite (24, LOST, Battlestar).

If I was a cynic I'd suggest these people just like the pretty colors and are reaching to find a more "hip" justification. That's if I was a cynic. You guys didn't see it but I just wiggled my eyebrows.
Because when we see characters and a world that are happy and carefree, it means far more when we realize that they have flaws and aren't perfect. And the fact that they all don't realize how horrible it all is makes it that much more tragic. Too see that their innocence is shielding them from all the horror, and if that innocence fades... yeah. Heavy stuff. It provides depth.

I've got a theory that the world is not as it seems, and we're just seeing it as Finn see's it. Finn sees it as a magical place full of wonder and joy, much like how a child would see the world. But the world is far more horrific, but Finn's innocence provides a filter to that. All the ruins and stuff are reality slowly creeping in, soon to shatter his bubble.

I'd say all that has far more impact than an adult show which is always dramatic all the time. Where drama is just the status-quo, if you will.
 

axlryder

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Jul 29, 2011
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Mid Boss said:
axlryder said:
CrunkParty said:
When people on the internet oversell a cartoon it always creeps me out. Not to mention I just don't understand the whole phenomenon. Why watch a show that's only allowed, at best, to allude to mature themes when you can watch an adult show and get those mature themes more fleshed out and front/center? But nerds hate adult character dramas don't they? If it's not apathy (Mad Men, Boardwalk Empire, Six Feet Under) it's outright spite (24, LOST, Battlestar).

If I was a cynic I'd suggest these people just like the pretty colors and are reaching to find a more "hip" justification. That's if I was a cynic. You guys didn't see it but I just wiggled my eyebrows.
24 and lost were written like shit after their first couple of seasons, so don't blame nerds for not getting into them because they're nerds. I'm pretty sure Battlestar has a decent fanbase in the nerd community. Also, a lot of shows possess characters or a tone that just don't click with people. I don't like shows with characters who take themselves too seriously, especially when the writing isn't very good. A lot of them are just totally visually uninteresting as well. That said, I'm loving the hell out of Breaking Bad right now (though the gorgeous cinematography fuels a lot of that love).

On the other hand, like Spongebob, Adventure time is pretty creative and has an amusing sense of humor. It also didn't set out to be anything great, so it's easier to keep your expectations of the writing lower. The thing is, when a show has an innocent or light veneer, it does a better job of being emotionally evocative when it begins to allude to darker or more mature themes (imo). More "mature" shows often just slather on the dark or adult themes to the point where it seems like the writers are going "Look! Look how dark and edgy we are!", which often, ironically, lends a very juvenile feel to a lot of them. Like a kid dressed up in his dad's clothes.

Now, I've never seen Mad Men, Boardwalk Empire or Six Feet Under, so I can't directly comment on those shows. I've been meaning to get around to watching Mad Men though (and not just for Christina Hendricks).
The best dramas, in my opinion, set up the characters and let you get to know, to like them, before they start tearing them down. Let's use Trigun as an example. For the first... 5? 6? episodes it's just slap stick humor as you watch Vash stumble and joke his way through everything. It alludes he's some super powered bad ass but he's never serious enough to actually show it.

Then Diablo shows up. The humor vanishes. People start to die. The main character is thrown into a moral dilemma where he has Diablo down and is holding a gun to his head. Diablo is a murdering monster who just killed half a town full of people but the main character has a belief that no matter what happens no one should ever have to die. He holds the gun to Diablo's head... for hours... crying because he's torn between his own beliefs and how much he desperately wants to kill this man.

This wouldn't have been HALF as powerful if we hadn't just spent 5 episodes getting to know the care free, happy person Vash is. Afterwards the humor comes back, you relax, then boom we're back to people dying. The show is a roller coaster that pulls your emotions in every direction and it's amazing. Firefly and Dr. Horrible did this as well. Joss Whedon loves this stuff. Same thing is happening in Adventure Time though it wont get anywhere near as dark as Trigun did. You feel bad for the Ice King because you just spent the past 4 seasons getting to know him. You laughed at his antics until you realize it's all a cry for help from a man who's desperately lonely but too insane to ever have a functioning relationship.

When a show throws you right into the drama. "Here feel bad for this person... because we told you to. Look how sad he is. He's at rock bottom and nothing we do to him will tear him down any lower than he was when we just met him." That's NOT effective drama. You don't feel for people you just met and for his situation to impact you you have to see him at his best before you see him at his worst otherwise his worst has no context.
DUDE, spoilers. I've been meaning to get around to watching the rest of Trigun. I know it's an old show and everything, but jeez. T-T

Anyway, I'd agree that setting up characters is definitely super important, not just for making you care about them, but also for establishing a base upon which the character can develop. Ouran High School host club did this extremely well imo. Better than almost any show I've seen, and that's a screwball shojo comedy. That said, and just to play devil's advocate, I find throwing the character into the middle of a bad situation right off the bat can work, but it has to be done really well. Usually it's by having a character stuck in a more relatable situation, and make the person a strong character in the face of adversity. Sometimes a character can be crafted through their response to adversity, instead of before it. An example of this off the top of my head might be Office Space.
 

Fappy

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Though it's certainly not a cartoon for children, Venture Bros. has kind of gone in a similar direction. What seemed random and strange early in the show has been fleshed out and explored. Some of the best character development you'll ever see in a comedy cartoon.