All JRPG needs to be liked again is to be gritty.

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

Well lets think for a moment why people hates JRPGs? Because it doesn't fit the current standards expected by the current attitude towards the fantasy genre.

But what do people expect from the fantasy genre now? To emulate ASOIAF, the political intrigue, the brutal cynicism and ultimately be as mature as possible. The funny thing is that JRPGs at one point was like that with Ogre Battle, Valkyrie Profile and Xenogears which served as the greats of JRPG. When JRPGs made the shift to making stuff lighter in content, WRPGs picked the ball up, using ASOIAF rather than Tolkien as their inspiration and has sold well compared to JRPGs which is becoming mostly kiddier.

So for JRPGs to be liked again, I recommend tossing in a bit of ASOIAF, some mature content and call us in the morning. We will dismiss the Turn Based stuff as part the genetic makeup of the genre. But the childishness is a disease that needs to be cured

 

[NerfedFalcon]

So for JRPGs to be liked again, I recommend tossing in a bit of ASOIAF, some mature content and call us in the morning. We will dismiss the Turn Based stuff as part the genetic makeup of the genre. But the childishness is a disease that needs to be cured

Bastion was built with next to no political intrigue in mind, and certainly not to the level of ASOIAF. I remember it being pretty successful.

Oblivion's intrigue only went as far as 'evil cult working for demons wants emperor dead'. It was pretty successful, too, and IMHO was better than Skyrim.

Diablo pretty much has no story besides 'click on everything' and it's still a million-seller despite the RMAH and the DRM.

Edit: On top of that, stuff in other genres doesn't always have to be completely hard-boiled either. Why are you singling out JRPGs? And why do you think that 'childishness is a disease that needs to be cured'? It's not a sign of maturity that you dismiss things as 'childish' on a knee-jerk.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well maybe you want that but I don't.
I will gladly play JRPGs if they just shed the spread sheet mechanics and don't waste my time, but the anime style they should never throw away, just go easy on the emo shit, or give us an option to make those characters explode into gory bits.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

In my humble opinion, JRPGs don't need to be grittier, they need to be less like a bad soap opera.

I couldn't stand FF13 for that reason. So goddamn cheesey with no selfawareness of said cheesiness.

 

[hazabaza1]

NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE
Go play Persona 4, Tales of Symphonia, Tales of Graces, Disgaea, Resonance of Fate, and I dunno, some of the older Final Fantasy games and Chrono Trigger or something and correct yourself.

 

[The Wykydtron]

Yeah because everyone hates JRPGs clearly. Great sweeping assumptions there friend anyway gritty does not necessarily equal mature content and having zero grit doesn't immediately remove all mature content.

I don't really pay attention to many other JRPGs but I could just point at Persona 4 as a counterpoint to your entire opening post. It's a game about you and your friends solving a series of gruesome and bizarre murder cases, with a huge truth seeking theme and a hell of a lot of analysis of the dark side of people.

You know the primary colour aesthetic of Persona 4? Bright yellow.

 

[Vegosiux]

The need for everything to be gritty and oh-so-edgy is a phase that should pass once you're out of adolescence. Actually the whole OP reads a little like "angry chess kid". See, I can do categorical dismissal with a dash of veiled insult too! Besdies, "gritty" can come across as so pretentious if forced. (Which was one of the reasons for my dislike of the Witcher series, by the way).

There's nothing wrong with JRPGs. Not my usual go-to genre these days because, ye gods, the day only has 24 hours and I have a lot of stuff to play, but seriously, there's nothing "wrong" with them as a genre, even if I happen to not like most of the prominent ones.

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

Yeah because everyone hates JRPGs clearly. Great sweeping assumptions there friend anyway gritty does not necessarily equal mature content and having zero grit doesn't immediately remove all mature content.

I don't really pay attention to many other JRPGs but I could just point at Persona 4 as a counterpoint to your entire opening post. It's a game about you and your friends solving a series of gruesome and bizarre murder cases, with a huge truth seeking theme and a hell of a lot of analysis of the dark side of people.

You know the primary colour aesthetic of Persona 4? Bright yellow.

But oddly enough the most escapist of all of the SMT storylines

NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE
Go play Persona 4, Tales of Symphonia, Tales of Graces, Disgaea, Resonance of Fate, and I dunno, some of the older Final Fantasy games and Chrono Trigger or something and correct yourself.

For Tales to be even close to what WRPGs do is to pretty much become dark fantasy as designed by GRRM.

But if that is the case, why do people love to watch HBO? Why are games emulating ASOIAF?

 

[WoW Killer]

If I'm remembering it right, Xenogears had you take control of a pink fluffy toy called Chu Chu that made a "boing" noise as it bounced around. Is that the one? Decent game, but I wouldn't call it mature.

 

[NerfedFalcon]

You want a game story that's mature without being gritty and political? Mother 3. Seriously, that game covers some very heavy themes[footnote]Dissolution of small communities by consumerism, ethical treatment of animals and the problems of living in the past among them.[/footnote], and it's one of the few games that ever made me cry. On the other hand, it also has several laugh-out-loud moments and an endearing pixel-art style.

And that's the entire point - without the happier parts, the game would have no contrast and therefore no impact.

 

[Lilani]

Well lets think for a moment why people hates JRPGs? Because it doesn't fit the current standards expected by the current attitude towards the fantasy genre.

But what do people expect from the fantasy genre now? To emulate ASOIAF, the political intrigue, the brutal cynicism and ultimately be as mature as possible. The funny thing is that JRPGs at one point was like that with Ogre Battle, Valkyrie Profile and Xenogears which served as the greats of JRPG. When JRPGs made the shift to making stuff lighter in content, WRPGs picked the ball up, using ASOIAF rather than Tolkien as their inspiration and has sold well compared to JRPGs which is becoming mostly kiddier.

So for JRPGs to be liked again, I recommend tossing in a bit of ASOIAF, some mature content and call us in the morning. We will dismiss the Turn Based stuff as part the genetic makeup of the genre. But the childishness is a disease that needs to be cured

The problem is, the things you want to change are what fundamentally make them JRPGs. Song of Ice and Fire may be what some people in the realm of Western fantasy realm expect, but Japanese fantasy is a whole other ball game. If you don't like the elements it features, then perhaps JRPGs just aren't for you. I wouldn't go complaining about how an egg salad has too much egg, because without the egg it's just...salad. Well, coleslaw really.

I mean, not only are you generalizing JRPGs but also Western RPGs. I've never read or watched anything involving ASOIAF, and I still enjoy plenty of fantasy stories. There's room for more than one type of fantasy in this big old world of ours. Anytime somebody starts talking about how we need to homogenize a certain genre it makes me cringe, because it's always unnecessary. You enjoy the fantasy you like, I'll enjoy mine. That's the reason fantasy is so great--it can be catered to fit what anybody wants.

 

[Strazdas]

I never liked JRPGs, even before this whole gritty gaming was a thing. I do ahve to admit i like my games dark. and no as in poorly lit, but as in deep plots.

 

[Zhukov]

Isn't that like saying that racing games need to have more dialogue and stealth sections?

I know next to nothing about the genre, but I'm pretty sure making JRPGs like Song of Ice and Fire would make them not much JRPGs anymore.

Lastly: "Ha ha ha". That is the sound of me laughing at your suggestion that WRPGs are no longer imitating the shit out of ol' Tolkien.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

Uh no. Certainly some JRPGs can (and do) benefit from darker tones (Shin Migami Tensai), but just as many benefit from the lighter, more whimsical stories (Ni No Kuni). JRPGs are most certainly not universally hated, otherwise we wouldn't have user groups [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/JRPG-fan-club] for those people who love them so much.

What I love about JRPGs is the greater focus on story, characters, and the deep immersive worlds, I don't care if that story is rated M or E. What I feel the genre does need is a little variety and some deviation from certain character archetypes (the overly peppy girl), but JRPGs aren't the only genre that could benefit from this.

 

[hazabaza1]

NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE
Go play Persona 4, Tales of Symphonia, Tales of Graces, Disgaea, Resonance of Fate, and I dunno, some of the older Final Fantasy games and Chrono Trigger or something and correct yourself.

For Tales to be even close to what WRPGs do is to pretty much become dark fantasy as designed by GRRM.

But if that is the case, why do people love to watch HBO? Why are games emulating ASOIAF?

And why should JRPGs try to do what (apparently) all WRPGs are succeeding in?
Lots of JRPGs have their own identities that they pull off well and not all of them need political content or "mature" presentation.
Hell, even Tales of Symphonia had a hell of a lot of political and religious implications and still managed to keep and teen friendly aesthetic. Why is that a bad thing?

 

[Sack of Cheese]

Hmm, gritty JRPGs... Dark souls and Persona 3 came to mind.

I don't really mind either way, people should do whatever they're best at. I love the fantasy worlds JRPGs tend to create. Despite being colourful, they are not angst-free. The stories often have dramatic plots and twists that suit their style.

 

[teh_gunslinger]

Well lets think for a moment why people hates JRPGs? Because it doesn't fit the current standards expected by the current attitude towards the fantasy genre.

But what do people expect from the fantasy genre now? To emulate ASOIAF, the political intrigue, the brutal cynicism and ultimately be as mature as possible. The funny thing is that JRPGs at one point was like that with Ogre Battle, Valkyrie Profile and Xenogears which served as the greats of JRPG. When JRPGs made the shift to making stuff lighter in content, WRPGs picked the ball up, using ASOIAF rather than Tolkien as their inspiration and has sold well compared to JRPGs which is becoming mostly kiddier.

So for JRPGs to be liked again, I recommend tossing in a bit of ASOIAF, some mature content and call us in the morning. We will dismiss the Turn Based stuff as part the genetic makeup of the genre. But the childishness is a disease that needs to be cured

I don't know how old you are, obviously, but something tells me you haven't been around to see the evolution of western RPGs if this is what you think. Ultima? Lands of Lore? Betrayal at Krondor? Daggerfall? Ultima Underworld? System Shock?

That's hardly western games picking up the slack. That's western rpgs going through their own evolution and focusing on different aspects that the Japanese variants. This has nothing to do with gritty or mature.

Now I've only played FF7, FF8 and FF10 and they were all pretty shit as far as I am concerned. I can't really critique the entire genre very well, but I posit that the problem with JRPGs is that they love the smell of their own farts too much. They're incredibly self absorbed and takes themselves so damn serious. On the gameplay side, JRPGs tend to be dreadfully dull (at least the FF games) and the amount of piss poor exposition is baffling. It's simply not fun to play and it seems that this is only getting worse as time passes.

That said, current western RPGs as evidenced by anything Bioware touches is shite as well. I posit that you have go to CDPR, Larian or Obsidian to play good rpgs these days. The rest is simply not very good.

 

[Trollhoffer]

NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE

What this guy said. I play JRPGs whenever I want to get away from the self-important pretense of many WRPGs.

 

[Padwolf]

I play JRPG's because they are not gritty and are far from it. The only problem I have with JRPG's is the characters. Keep in mind that all this is really my opinion. Take Chie from Persona 4. At the moment I cannot stand her, she is one of the most annoying characters I have ever come across. I hope she gets better, I'm only a few hours in, just started playing yesterday. Another set of annoying characters would be the two kids in Lost Odyssey. Yes they come from a tragic moment and all that jazz but they were still highly annoying. The same with Final Fantasy games; Vaan in Final Fantasy 12, many of the characters in FF13. And a lot of the time I do not enjoy the whole "strong and silent and broody type" hero's. JRPG's don't need to be grittier, the reason I play them is because they are not gritty. I didn't even know that they weren't liked, I thought they were loved just as much as any other type of game.

Edit: Hold the phone. Go and play Lost Odyssey, OP. Go and play that and come back to me and tell me it was childish. Oh and Bastion. Go and give that a whirl too. And a load of others I can list that don't have much political intrigue and yet are still part of my list of favourite games