All Kids Out of the Pool

[Revnak_v1legacy]

snip

I was kinda referring to the argument as a whole in my first sentence. The second part was directed towards liquidacid.


Captcha: two freaking captchas in a row, and the same freaking Chevy sonic one!

But you only quoted me. Not that I'm angry or anything, it's just that this is the second time already.

 

[josemlopes]

it actually saddens me that the face of western animation thease days is American dad, family guy and the fucking clevland show /hipster moment

There is a lot more then just what Seth MacFarlane does, there is Archer, The Regular Show, Adventure Time, MLP, The Simpsons, Futurama and a lot more. And most of these are more popular then American Dad and The Cleveland Show (although I like American Dad)

 

[AdmiralCheez]

I think the best way to fix the line-up issues is to drop the name of "Adult Swim" entirely, or at the very least drop the stoner crowd/frat boy target audience.

See, that's always been the POINT of adult swim though, it's always been too-fucked-up-for-kids television, either through extreme content (TV Funhouse "They cut off my fucking thumb!") or general bizarre nonsense.

Yeah, I understand the appeal of it. Perhaps my statement was a bit obtuse. I just kinda wish that their programming would handle it in a way that isn't a bunch of random nonsense strung together with a fishing line of a plot. Like, if the episode had a story (doesn't have to be original, just good) and used wacky, bizarre hijincks to further the plot, I would appreciate it. Not what it seems to be where they think up the gags first and try to write a story around that. Because it doesn't work for me.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Ehh, isnt the point of Toonami fading into cancellation simply representative that people got tired of Anime?

Not at all. Toonami died because the old president of Cartoon Network got fired thanks to a publicity stunt for Aqua Teen Hungerforce being mistaken for a bomb threat, and the replacement hated cartoons in general, and anime in particular. That's why, for the last few years of its run, Toonami kept getting shifted to different timeslots, getting crappy new shows instead of good ones, and eventially becoming two hours a week of heavily censored Naruto. The only part of that last night which was not a whimper but a bang was when Tom literally said "bang." This is also where that CN Real crap that failed so horribly came from.

it actually saddens me that the face of western animation thease days is American dad, family guy and the fucking clevland show /hipster moment

I wouldn't consider that hipster at all to be honest, it speaks volumes for us when MLP attains a massive following just becaues it has a hint of the family oriented humor from cartoons which haven't been made/broadcast in 10 years despit massive support for them.

No... MLP attains a massive following because there are people who think if they like something that is culturally considered inappropriate for them that they are special and unique... same crap has been going on since the birth of civilization

it says nothing other than that people are still doing the same old shit in a different way

I'm quoting this because Ninjamedic was exactly right about why My Little Pony became so popular: it feels like a 90's cartoon. Not like one of the greats, like Animaniacs, nor like one of the weak ones, such as Cow and Chicken, but like something in the middle of the road, which while not the best thing on a lineup, would still be worth watching instead of changing the channel to find something better. It speaks volumes when something of that level of quality comes out and is hailed as the best thing ever, because it means we've really been starved of that kind of humor.

OT: Robot Chicken and Metalocalypse were the only two Adult Swim originals I ever got into, with the rest of what I liked being Anime. I lost track of their anime block when it switched from being anime on Saturdays, originals on Sundays to "the entire lineup all week, with very little way to tell when we'll be airing a new episode," although I did start catching more of the original stuff a couple of years later when they realized that that was a bad idea. These days, I'm not even sure what anime they're showing; I tuned in one Saturday and was thoroughly confused, because I wasn't even aware that half of those shows existed, let alone that AS was airing then. The rest of their lineup is pretty weak too; Family Guy is on every channel under the sun, King of the Hill is entertaining but out of place, American Dad has the sane problem as Family Guy, the live action shows really shouldn't be on there, and most of their other stuff sucks (Squid Billies, anyone?)

In other words, bringing back Toonami and getting a truly anime centered block with some decent publicity on the air, even if it did nothing but replace their current Saturday night block, would be a good thing. And maybe they could get some better comedy stuff while they're at it; I mean, if they're going to do live action, why not something like MST3K? It can't be /that/ expensive to license.

 

[Racecarlock]

I think they just need to bring the old good stuff back just long enough for them to acquire new good stuff. Sym-bionic titan must return, I don't care what anyone says. They canceled a giant robot show made by the creator of samurai jack. Morons. And maybe they can find some other new great animation properties too. Whatever the case, Level Up needs to be deleted. They basically combined spy kids 3d with ned's declassified school survival guide and made all of the characters jar jar with a cheese grater taped to his face.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

it actually saddens me that the face of western animation thease days is American dad, family guy and the fucking clevland show /hipster moment

No, I am pretty sure the face of western animation is the same as it has always been.

They may not do a whole lot on TV, but their movies reach a far larger audience than any of those shows.

When's the last time they actually made an animation?

Pixar is a totally separate entity that deals with a totally separate style of animation.

There isn't really a western 2D animation market.

Tangled was really, really good.

But wasn't it pixar... and 3D.

I'm not saying 3D is bad, I love 3D. I'm just saying there really isn't a 2D market anymore. And it's a shame.

It was Disney and 3D. And the lack of a 2D market is a shame.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

it actually saddens me that the face of western animation thease days is American dad, family guy and the fucking clevland show /hipster moment

No, I am pretty sure the face of western animation is the same as it has always been.

They may not do a whole lot on TV, but their movies reach a far larger audience than any of those shows.

When's the last time they actually made an animation?

Pixar is a totally separate entity that deals with a totally separate style of animation.

There isn't really a western 2D animation market.

Tangled was really, really good.

But wasn't it pixar... and 3D.

I'm not saying 3D is bad, I love 3D. I'm just saying there really isn't a 2D market anymore. And it's a shame.

It was Disney and 3D. And the lack of a 2D market is a shame.

The sad thing is that there's plenty of demand, but no supply; like so many other things, people would gladly pay money to see/have a new traditionally animated film, but for some stupid reason[footnote]In this case, the fact that CG was a novelty when it first showed up, so people who otherwise wouldn't have paid to see the film did just because it was in CG -- this has almost certainly leveled out by now, but the studios are too thick to figure that out[/footnote], the content producers won't give us what we're yelling at them to take our money in exchange for.

 

[Seanfall]

it actually saddens me that the face of western animation thease days is American dad, family guy and the fucking clevland show /hipster moment

I wouldn't consider that hipster at all to be honest, it speaks volumes for us when MLP attains a massive following just becaues it has a hint of the family oriented humor from cartoons which haven't been made/broadcast in 10 years despit massive support for them.

Huh...I never thought of it that way....Personally I wouldn't shed a tear if they dropped like half the shows they have now. Especially Tim and Eric I just...don't like those guys. I don't mind family guy but it wears a little thin when half the night programming is usually back to back Family Guy and American Dad. They rarely show anime now and usually only on Saturday's. At least I haven't seen any anime on during the weekdays for a loooooooong time. And then it was usually yeah Inuyasha....an anime that needs to be put to rest...with a bullet.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

it actually saddens me that the face of western animation thease days is American dad, family guy and the fucking clevland show /hipster moment

No, I am pretty sure the face of western animation is the same as it has always been.

They may not do a whole lot on TV, but their movies reach a far larger audience than any of those shows.

When's the last time they actually made an animation?

Pixar is a totally separate entity that deals with a totally separate style of animation.

There isn't really a western 2D animation market.

Tangled was really, really good.

But wasn't it pixar... and 3D.

I'm not saying 3D is bad, I love 3D. I'm just saying there really isn't a 2D market anymore. And it's a shame.

It was Disney and 3D. And the lack of a 2D market is a shame.

The sad thing is that there's plenty of demand, but no supply; like so many other things, people would gladly pay money to see/have a new traditionally animated film, but for some stupid reason[footnote]In this case, the fact that CG was a novelty when it first showed up, so people who otherwise wouldn't have paid to see the film did just because it was in CG -- this has almost certainly leveled out by now, but the studios are too thick to figure that out[/footnote], the content producers won't give us what we're yelling at them to take our money in exchange for.

Well, it doesn't help that Disney's last few traditional animation movies tanked despite still being of excellent quality. I love all forms of animation, and I do believe there is a demand for traditional animation, but that demand is not what it was in the nineties. I think it is definitely still high enough for them to turn a major profit if they do a good job, just not like they did with the Disney movies of the nineties. This is definitely an occasion where I would love to be proven wrong though.

 

[Navvan]

it actually saddens me that the face of western animation thease days is American dad, family guy and the fucking clevland show /hipster moment

I wouldn't consider that hipster at all to be honest, it speaks volumes for us when MLP attains a massive following just becaues it has a hint of the family oriented humor from cartoons which haven't been made/broadcast in 10 years despit massive support for them.

No... MLP attains a massive following because there are people who think if they like something that is culturally considered inappropriate for them that they are special and unique... same crap has been going on since the birth of civilization

it says nothing other than that people are still doing the same old shit in a different way

While there is definitely some bandwagon going on with that show you can't really deny that it is a solid program for children or that is of higher quality than most children cartoons that are broadcasted regularly at this moment in time. I don't know about you but I'd much rather have my children watch MLP than many of the more popular cartoons. That isn't to say there aren't better cartoons out there, but for that particular demographic (young girls/their parents) its likely the best. Honestly I promote the show for that reason rather than any enjoyment I personally get out of it.

OT: Ideally they need to get rid of everything live-action. Its cartoon network, which implies at least some sort of animation. Although I'm rather bias in this regard as I like animation as a medium and wish it would grow to be more diverse.

I would love to see a move from obscene*/profane**/comedy shows to mature*** shows. Not that there is anything wrong with those shows I just would like something different. I don't really expect that to happen in the near future though.

*By obscene I mean shows that depict anything for "shock value" such as religious/political figures or just mindless acts for humor in general (Typical Family Guy/Robot Chicken humor)

**Using words for their shock value alone.

***Shows that actually have some sort of story arc and preferably address themes that may not be suitable for younger audience. Also preferably not comedy at their core.

 

[Ninjamedic]

Huh...I never thought of it that way....

I started to think about it when my father began collecting the old Hanna-Barbera cartoons, if you take each generation of western animation, there is always something of note that appeals to a general audience, but between Toonami's (and in a way Cartoon Cartoon's) cancellation and the MLP reboot, I can't come up with a good example of a cartoon series that caters to everyone while retaining a high standard.

Personally I wouldn't shed a tear if they dropped like half the shows they have now. Especially Tim and Eric I just...don't like those guys. I don't mind family guy but it wears a little thin when half the night programming is usually back to back Family Guy and American Dad. They rarely show anime now and usually only on Saturday's. At least I haven't seen any anime on during the weekdays for a loooooooong time. And then it was usually yeah Inuyasha....an anime that needs to be put to rest...with a bullet.

I'd honestly get rid of Family Guy now, its had its run, let the staff go onto new programmes. We honestly need a good Anime Channel (especially in Ireland and the UK), if it wasn't for the Anime Club in my IT, I wouldn't have watched anything beyond Gundam Wing and Cowboy Bebop.

 

[viranimus]

Ehh, isnt the point of Toonami fading into cancellation simply representative that people got tired of Anime?

Not at all. Toonami died because the old president of Cartoon Network got fired thanks to a publicity stunt for Aqua Teen Hungerforce being mistaken for a bomb threat, and the replacement hated cartoons in general, and anime in particular. That's why, for the last few years of its run, Toonami kept getting shifted to different timeslots, getting crappy new shows instead of good ones, and eventially becoming two hours a week of heavily censored Naruto. The only part of that last night which was not a whimper but a bang was when Tom literally said "bang." This is also where that CN Real crap that failed so horribly came from.

Hrm, interesting point. Was not aware of that. It has been quite a while since my interest has been invested in the inner workings of Cartoon network.

However, I do think that even if that was the case, it was more likely a straw that broke the camels back scenario because the state of affairs transcends cartoon network. Anime has declined in popularity. You can see this because of the resurrection of western animation we are starting to experience. Look at the state of animation between 1995-2005 when Anime was at the height of its popularity in the US for example. Networks were importing anime to fill every possible block of animated programing hand over fist. For a while it seemed as if western animation had all but gone extinct. The bulk of childrens programing had become centered around blocks of imported anime.

Now compare that to today where we see greater numbers of western animation dominating the childrens blocks of shows again. If the ratings for anime had not taken a large dip, network runners would still be buying anime hand over fist instead of producing animation locally that costs so much more. That was a major reason WHY anime grew as large as it had was because it was far cheaper to dub something that was already made than to create the whole thing from scratch. The ratings of it had to drop to the point that it began to look more lucrative to cover the expense of local production, because importing content simply was no longer generating enough ratings to be cost effective.

While it may not be directly responsible for Toonami dissapearing, it seems more than coincidental that the trend of local affiliate networks (ABC, Fox, Etc) and other cable networks that run animated blocks of programming have been abandoning Anime in mass in favor of western animation that coincides with the dissolution of toonami (roughly 2007-2009). Its also seconded in SciFi channels more recent attempt at trying to resurrect anime to their programing via Ani-monday, which only lasted 1 year before ratings forced the network to shift it around and it meandered in a flailing state from 2008 to last year when they finally gave up on it.

If anime flails in ratings regardless of where it is or where it goes, that is representative of Western audiences in general loosing interest in anime. Honestly I would think the biggest reason for this is the combination of the repetitive nature of anime coupled with the massive over saturation of anime that occured between 2000-2005 that people simply got burnt out on it. Though admittedly much of that is speculative on my part.

 

[Lucane]

If Toonami comes back does that mean we'd get Megas XLR back too?

 

[Kenbo Slice]

Adult Swim can drop Family Guy, well the newer episodes, they can play the older ones that don't suck ass. I'm cool with everything else.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

epic snip

Eh, I don't know. From what I remember of the period from 1995 to 2005, we had plenty of cartoons of all sorts. It was after 2005 when animation blocks started to disappear entirely -- there's only one local channel that I know of that still does Saturday morning cartoons, and interestingly enough, they're mostly 4Kids dubbed anime. Also, Animonday tanked because of the time slot; it was lightly cut anime aimed at a mature audience, and the block ran from 11:00 to 2AM on Monday nights. The target audience had to be at work or school in the morning, and really couldn't watch it. If it had been a Friday or Saturday night block, it might still be around today.

Reallly, though, we were in a pretty big dork age of animation for the latter part of the last decade. It's only in the last couple of years that we've started getting good cartoons again; Western animation was horrible for a while, and we didn't have much anime, either. Western animation has gotten better in recent years, but we're still lacking in anime for some reason.

Edit: And I'm interested to hear what channels other than Cartoon Network you remember carrying anime. I remember Kids WB carried a lot of toyetic anime (mainly Pokemon and Yugioh), plus they had a brief affair with DBZ and Sailor Moon, but aside from that, Cartoon Network, and the short lived Animonday block, I'm having a hard time remembering any basic cable channels regularly carring anime in the last 15 years or so.

 

[Gatx]

So, in this thread people were discussing whether or not Toonami would return to our televisions.
I feel that it could never happen, at least not without losing some of Adult Swim's lineup.

Why? I mean, they could just have "Toonami" be the bumpers for the Saturday anime block.

 

[TehCookie]

While I'd love toonami to come back for the nostalgia, if they still air shit it's not going to make a huge difference. They need more good anime.

Reallly, though, we were in a pretty big dork age of animation for the latter part of the last decade.

I can't tell if you typed that on purpose or not but it made me giggle.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

While I'd love toonami to come back for the nostalgia, if they still air shit it's not going to make a huge difference. They need more good anime.

Reallly, though, we were in a pretty big dork age of animation for the latter part of the last decade.

I can't tell if you typed that on purpose or not but it made me giggle.

It was on purpose; there's a trope on TV tropes that talks about the difference between a dark age and a dork age. Silver age Batman, for instance, was a dork age.