All Skyrim needs is...

[Gottesstrafe]

Is this thread going to be another veiled snide remark on how PC > Consoles?

And when is someone going to mod in Dark Souls armor sets into Skyrim? I want Ornstein's armor dammit!

 

[SajuukKhar]

All Skyrim needs (IMO) is:
-To get rid of leveled loot and monsters and replace it with static loot and monsters
-To get rid of fast travel
-To get rid of marking places on the map
-To get rid of the stylized kills
-To bring back the skills they took out
-Remove voice acting and use the budget and time they use to do that do make a better story.
-Essentially be Morrowind

You are aware that
-Morrowind was the only game to NOT have fast travel, something MANY old-school TES players hated.

-Morrowind also marked places on its map, as did Daggerfall.

-Having more skills for the sake of having more skills is not good gameplay design. Splitting One-handed into short blade, long blade, axe, and blunt does not bring any more complexity into the game because all the features of those skills skill exist within the one handed skill tree.

-Removing voice acting would not imrpvoe the story, if you go replay Morrowind you will notice that 95% of NPCs have the exact same set of rumors dialog copy-pasated into each of them. Removing voice acting would only turn the game from a game were voiced NPCs say the same insight over and over into a game were non voiced NPCs say the same thing over and over.

-You can disable kill-cams as it is, complaining about something you don't have to use is dumb.

Not to mention the fact that static loot and monsters is idiotic, do you not recall how bad it was in Morrowind?

do you not remember going through some epically long cave, beating things that were like 10 levels above you, only to have the final chest contain a low level magic ring, and some worthless food?

There was no point in doing Morrowind's dungeons because the loot was always terrible, all Morrowind was, was a game were you find out the locations of the best items beforehand, get them, and then never touch a dungeon again.

at least in Skyrim I am slightly motivated to go dungeon exploring because I know that, unlike Morrowind, the loot will actually be useful to me for my level.

 

[SextusMaximus]

All Skyrim needs (IMO) is:
-To get rid of leveled loot and monsters and replace it with static loot and monsters
-To get rid of fast travel
-To get rid of marking places on the map
-To get rid of the stylized kills
-To bring back the skills they took out
-Remove voice acting and use the budget and time they use to do that do make a better story.
-Essentially be Morrowind

EVERYTHING there has quite literally been done through mods. Every single one.

Really, if you don't like vanilla Skyrim (which I happen to love), pick the game up on PC and go on a freaking mod spree, really is worth the money!

 

[lacktheknack]

Hmm, I personally feel like you about Skyrim, but I've also seen people enjoy the shit out of it. I'm starting to think maybe we're playing it wrong.

Playing it the same way I've played TES since Daggerfall. I enjoyed every iteration up until Skyrim, still don't mind Oblivion on occasion. Skyrim is just a bit empty and dull.

I can look past the bogus combat and the complete and utter lack of substance. But the fact that you can run for an actual hour and see nothing but about 30 wolves that drop nothing, about half a dozen dragons that also drop nothing of value and you craft the best armour in the game if you're willing to wait for the merchants to sell you the materials. If they can add in the possibility of dragons or Champion bosses dropping really good unique weapons.

complains about Skyrim's bad combat and lack of substance

I really like Daggerfall, it's just that the combat was abysmal and the game's non-quest material is about as flat as its sprites.

That said, the only thing I'd add to Skyrim would be a spellmaker. The one from Daggerfall, actually.

 

[Doom-Slayer]

Just port over Dark Souls' combat. There, 10 times better.

Last I checked, and you know I could be wrong, but Dark Souls is a 3rd person game and Skyrim is primary a 1st person game. Kiiiind of cant just transfer those systems over very easily

One feature I would love to include is weapons bouncing off walls, THAT I would love to see in more games everywhere.

 

[SajuukKhar]

That said, the only thing I'd add to Skyrim would be a spellmaker. The one from Daggerfall, actually.

The problem with the spellmaker, as Oblivion has shown, is that people will only ever use it to make abusively overpowered, low-cost spells.

though I still kinda wish it was back.

 

[Soopy]

Hmm, I personally feel like you about Skyrim, but I've also seen people enjoy the shit out of it. I'm starting to think maybe we're playing it wrong.

Playing it the same way I've played TES since Daggerfall. I enjoyed every iteration up until Skyrim, still don't mind Oblivion on occasion. Skyrim is just a bit empty and dull.

I can look past the bogus combat and the complete and utter lack of substance. But the fact that you can run for an actual hour and see nothing but about 30 wolves that drop nothing, about half a dozen dragons that also drop nothing of value and you craft the best armour in the game if you're willing to wait for the merchants to sell you the materials. If they can add in the possibility of dragons or Champion bosses dropping really good unique weapons.

complains about Skyrim's bad combat and lack of substance

I really like Daggerfall, it's just that the combat was abysmal and the game's non-quest material is about as flat as its sprites.

That said, the only thing I'd add to Skyrim would be a spellmaker. The one from Daggerfall, actually.

At the time, Daggerfalls combat wasn't too bad. Skyrims isn't a great deal better 20yrs later...
And I thought it was obvious but content doesn't just extend to the physical representations of objects...

In reply to a post above. I'm not against fast travel. I am against designing games and quests around its use though.

 

[lacktheknack]

That said, the only thing I'd add to Skyrim would be a spellmaker. The one from Daggerfall, actually.

The problem with the spellmaker, as Oblivion has shown, is that people will only ever use it to make abusively overpowered, low-cost spells.

though I still kinda wish it was back.

And what, pray tell, was the problem with that? That's part of the fun. Besides, a tweaked Daggerfall spellmaker should be able to avoid that quite easily if you insist.

 

[SajuukKhar]

In reply to a post above. I'm not against fast travel. I am against designing games and quests around its use though.

Explain then how I have played through Skyrim 3 times..... not using fast travel.... EVER.... except carriages?

The only way Skyrim is designed around using fast travel... is if you make it so. There is literally nothing preventing you playing the whole game without using any fast travel at all.

And what, pray tell, was the problem with that? That's part of the fun. Besides, a tweaked Daggerfall spellmaker should be able to avoid that quite easily if you insist.

Because, despite Bethesda inability to do so, they have to at least act like they are trying to make the game balanced.

 

[Callate]

I do think Skyrim learned some of the wrong lessons from Oblivion. Anything you're obliged to do repeatedly is risky, whether it's fighting dragons or closing Oblivion Gates or just killing another one of those @#$%ing Cliff Racers. Having to do so more often doesn't make me feel more powerful or more responsible, just harried and irritated.

But I also think it did a lot right. I think the combat is some of the best Bethesda has achieved so far. While it's nothing arcade-like, I think it comes closer to the right balance between real-time skill and stat-based "push button until they're dead" than most of the series, and I'd ask everyone to remember that this is not a game that was designed with twitch-button fetishists in mind for a reason. If you make the combat a whirlwind of split-second timing and alienate 90% of the player base, you've just killed a popular series; congratulations.

I'd love to see them do a lot more with the idea of ecosystems. It's nice that the fox attacks the bunny and the wolves attack the fox and so on, but they could have done so much more. If the merchants in Whiterun had more gold or a wider assortment of goods because the Khajit merchant caravan could now get past the bridge with the bandits. If the sudden influx of player-crafted Dwarven armor started getting issued to the guards. If a new Archmage at Winterhold decided the College should have absolute control over Skyrim's soul gem mining. I think there's room for a much more dynamic game here.

I also really, really wish that a game with such a relative dearth of conversation options didn't have so many that led to the other half of the conversation saying something along the lines of "What kind of stupid question is that?" Um, the only kind I was offered on the tree, thanks?

And, y'know, bugs... It's ridiculous that the game got out the door with a bug in place such that being part-way through the "Join the Imperials" quest could make it impossible to proceed in the main storyline quest. C'mon, Bethesda! If you're only offering us half a dozen possible exchanges with characters anyway, having flags fail to drop on the major ones is inexcusable.

Over-all, though, I think it's a series that has mostly been improving over the last decade or so, and I look forward to seeing where it will go from here.

 

[lacktheknack]

Hmm, I personally feel like you about Skyrim, but I've also seen people enjoy the shit out of it. I'm starting to think maybe we're playing it wrong.

Playing it the same way I've played TES since Daggerfall. I enjoyed every iteration up until Skyrim, still don't mind Oblivion on occasion. Skyrim is just a bit empty and dull.

I can look past the bogus combat and the complete and utter lack of substance. But the fact that you can run for an actual hour and see nothing but about 30 wolves that drop nothing, about half a dozen dragons that also drop nothing of value and you craft the best armour in the game if you're willing to wait for the merchants to sell you the materials. If they can add in the possibility of dragons or Champion bosses dropping really good unique weapons.

complains about Skyrim's bad combat and lack of substance

I really like Daggerfall, it's just that the combat was abysmal and the game's non-quest material is about as flat as its sprites.

That said, the only thing I'd add to Skyrim would be a spellmaker. The one from Daggerfall, actually.

At the time, Daggerfalls combat wasn't too bad. Skyrims isn't a great deal better 20yrs later...
And I thought it was obvious but content doesn't just extend to the physical representations of objects...

It's called a comparison, man. The point is that there's no real "meat" to the game outside of main and guild quests.

Also, gameplay doesn't get the "But it's old!" excuse. Platformers back in the day were just as awesome then as newer ones are now.

 

[lacktheknack]

And what, pray tell, was the problem with that? That's part of the fun. Besides, a tweaked Daggerfall spellmaker should be able to avoid that quite easily if you insist.

Because, despite Bethesda inability to do so, they have to at least act like they are trying to make the game balanced.

Bethesda put Fawkes in Fallout 3. 'Nuff said.

I am under no impression that they ever attempt balance outside of level scaling.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Bethesda put Fawkes in Fallout 3. 'Nuff said.

I am under no impression that they ever attempt balance outside of level scaling.

Touche.......

I admit defeat.

 

[Soopy]

Hmm, I personally feel like you about Skyrim, but I've also seen people enjoy the shit out of it. I'm starting to think maybe we're playing it wrong.

Playing it the same way I've played TES since Daggerfall. I enjoyed every iteration up until Skyrim, still don't mind Oblivion on occasion. Skyrim is just a bit empty and dull.

I can look past the bogus combat and the complete and utter lack of substance. But the fact that you can run for an actual hour and see nothing but about 30 wolves that drop nothing, about half a dozen dragons that also drop nothing of value and you craft the best armour in the game if you're willing to wait for the merchants to sell you the materials. If they can add in the possibility of dragons or Champion bosses dropping really good unique weapons.

complains about Skyrim's bad combat and lack of substance

I really like Daggerfall, it's just that the combat was abysmal and the game's non-quest material is about as flat as its sprites.

That said, the only thing I'd add to Skyrim would be a spellmaker. The one from Daggerfall, actually.

At the time, Daggerfalls combat wasn't too bad. Skyrims isn't a great deal better 20yrs later...
And I thought it was obvious but content doesn't just extend to the physical representations of objects...

It's called a comparison, man. The point is that there's no real "meat" to the game outside of main and guild quests.

Also, gameplay doesn't get the "But it's old!" excuse. Platformers back in the day were just as awesome then as newer ones are now.

Skyrim's guild quests have even less content then Daggerfall though.

And "its old" is an excuse. Daggerfall had substantially less to work with as far as technology and processing power. Something allot of platform games don't have too much an issue with.

 

[Soopy]

That said, the only thing I'd add to Skyrim would be a spellmaker. The one from Daggerfall, actually.

The problem with the spellmaker, as Oblivion has shown, is that people will only ever use it to make abusively overpowered, low-cost spells.

though I still kinda wish it was back.

You don't HAVE to make massively overpowered spells. And that's no more broken then stacking enchantments in Skyrim. Balance isn't really necessary in a single player game. Fun is though.

Although in TES it has always been pretty easy to become godlike.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Skyrim's guild quests have even less content then Daggerfall though.

And "its old" is an excuse. Daggerfall had substantially less to work with as far as technology and processing power. Something allot of platform games don't have too much an issue with.

Have you ever actually looked at what Daggerfall's guild quests were?

Most of Daggerfall, and Morrowind's, guild quests were nothing but random, unconnected, "go here and kill X" quests that didn't build up to anything, or have any over-arching plot.

Skyrim's guild quests were on the other hands, mostly plot focused, with only one or two unconnected quests being thrown in.

Its like comparing anime to American cartoons
-American cartoons last for like.... 50000 seasons, but they only do so because they all suffer from Simpsons syndrome, were every episode is unconnected to the last, where nothing, and no one, ever changes, and nothing really happens.
-Anime on the other hand normally only lasts 13-26 episodes, because its all plot focused, and when you have a plot, and focus on it, shit gets done faster.

I would rather have shorter guilds that are all plot focused, then Morrowind and Daggerfall's guilds which were nothing but faffing about.

Skyrim is the first ES game that I actually cared about the guild, and my guild maters, because instead of just giving me "go here and kill 5 spiders" quests, everything they gave me had a plot, a focus to it, everything built on the premise of the guild.

 

[Soopy]

Skyrim's guild quests have even less content then Daggerfall though.

And "its old" is an excuse. Daggerfall had substantially less to work with as far as technology and processing power. Something allot of platform games don't have too much an issue with.

Have you ever actually looked at what Daggerfall's guild quests were?

Most of Daggerfall, and Morrowind's, guild quests were nothing but random, unconnected, go here and kill X quests that didn't build up to anything, or have any over-arching plot.

Skyrim's guild quests were on the other hands, mostly plot focused, with only one or two unconnected quests being thrown in.

Its like companing anime to American cartoons
-American cartoons last for like.... 50000 seasons, but they only do so because they all suffer from Simpsons syndrome, were every episode is unconnected to the last, where nothing ever changes or really happens.
-Anime on the other hand normally only lasts 13-26 episodes, becuase its all plot focused, and when you have a plot, and focuse on it, shit gets done faster.

I would rather have shorter guilds that are all plot focused, then Morrowind's guilds which were nothing but faffing about.

lol, the guilds in Daggerfall were just that. Guild halls with jobs to do. So of course it was just random shit.

Skyrims factions are the exact same thing with a derptastic story tacked on that were FAR too short.

 

[SajuukKhar]

lol, the guilds in Daggerfall were just that. Guild halls with jobs to do. So of course it was just random shit.

Skyrims factions are the exact same thing with a derptastic story tacked on that were FAR too short.

Which is why the guild's in Daggerflall bored me.

Skyrim's guild stories weren't great, but they were better for the simple fact they actually have a plot, and a reason for existing in the world, and a reason for giving a shit about it.

They may have been too short, but I at least enjoyed doing guilds for once.

 

[Soopy]

I do think Skyrim learned some of the wrong lessons from Oblivion. Anything you're obliged to do repeatedly is risky, whether it's fighting dragons or closing Oblivion Gates or just killing another one of those @#$%ing Cliff Racers. Having to do so more often doesn't make me feel more powerful or more responsible, just harried and irritated.

But I also think it did a lot right. I think the combat is some of the best Bethesda has achieved so far. While it's nothing arcade-like, I think it comes closer to the right balance between real-time skill and stat-based "push button until they're dead" than most of the series, and I'd ask everyone to remember that this is not a game that was designed with twitch-button fetishists in mind for a reason. If you make the combat a whirlwind of split-second timing and alienate 90% of the player base, you've just killed a popular series; congratulations.

I'd love to see them do a lot more with the idea of ecosystems. It's nice that the fox attacks the bunny and the wolves attack the fox and so on, but they could have done so much more. If the merchants in Whiterun had more gold or a wider assortment of goods because the Khajit merchant caravan could now get past the bridge with the bandits. If the sudden influx of player-crafted Dwarven armor started getting issued to the guards. If a new Archmage at Winterhold decided the College should have absolute control over Skyrim's soul gem mining. I think there's room for a much more dynamic game here.

I also really, really wish that a game with such a relative dearth of conversation options didn't have so many that led to the other half of the conversation saying something along the lines of "What kind of stupid question is that?" Um, the only kind I was offered on the tree, thanks?

And, y'know, bugs... It's ridiculous that the game got out the door with a bug in place such that being part-way through the "Join the Imperials" quest could make it impossible to proceed in the main storyline quest. C'mon, Bethesda! If you're only offering us half a dozen possible exchanges with characters anyway, having flags fail to drop on the major ones is inexcusable.

Over-all, though, I think it's a series that has mostly been improving over the last decade or so, and I look forward to seeing where it will go from here.

I'm inclined to agree with most of what you say. If it wasn't for the bugs. I could almost enjoy a 15minute slash and dash fest.

 

[Soopy]

lol, the guilds in Daggerfall were just that. Guild halls with jobs to do. So of course it was just random shit.

Skyrims factions are the exact same thing with a derptastic story tacked on that were FAR too short.

Which is why the guild's in Daggerflall bored me.

Skyrim's guild stories weren't great, but they were better for the simple fact they actually have a plot, and a reason for existing in the world, and a reason for giving a shit about it.

They may have been too short, but I at least enjoyed doing guilds for once.

How did they manage that?
The stories were almost nonsensical and fruitless. Nothing you did mattered in the slightest.