Its not the scientologists themselves you should be afraid of. Its Xenu and his Galactic Confederacy
Am I alone in being afraid of Scientology?
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No, you're not.
A long time ago, they sued people for speaking out against them. Not to win, but just keep them in court long enough to screw up their lives forever.
They also harassed (stalked, threaten, break into their homes) and sued ex-members that wanted to tell people about how they believe that all our troubles are caused by aliens.
For these reasons, the cult has been outlawed in Italy, or maybe it was Spain...
A long time ago, they sued people for speaking out against them. Not to win, but just keep them in court long enough to screw up their lives forever.
They also harassed (stalked, threaten, break into their homes) and sued ex-members that wanted to tell people about how they believe that all our troubles are caused by aliens.
For these reasons, the cult has been outlawed in Italy, or maybe it was Spain...
Ah... they're a religion. You really want to act affraid of them, that's fine. I guess? I don't really care either way about them.
All right, to be fair, maybe it's not Scientology specifically, but more of the general idea that there can be a cult that encourages suing and killing anyone that disagrees with them that can still have people supporting and funding it out of free will.Flying-Emu said:
There's been a lot of examples of that in history. Scientology offers them something, whether it be in the afterlife or the current life, and they're willing to do anything to attain it. It's a little thing called psychology, although some would condemn it as brainwashing.thebobmaster said:
I, for one, find Scientology brilliant. I haven't read their scriptures/texts/beliefs, but the singular fact that they can amass such a huge following despite the near-constantly negative media coverage and high membership costs is fascinating.
It's a pyramid sceme that's hit the big time as far as I'm concerned.
It's creepy what it tries to do, but I think a lot of that is bluster rather than actual power.
It's creepy what it tries to do, but I think a lot of that is bluster rather than actual power.
Not anymore or less than I fear any other cult or religious zealots. I fear them the same way I may fear an islamic extremist, a Christian fundamentalist or something like the Heaven's Gate cult from a while back.thebobmaster said:
Yeah, their Fair Game thing is a bit...intimidating (and I've read stories like the ones above of people who had to suffer from it), but it's no worse than some of the stuff the other cults can come up with.
Just to be clear:
Scientology is not a cult. Its founder is dead and it has a very clear and concise doctrine.
That said, the "religion" is batshit, and the Fair Game policy is rather intimidating.
Scientology is not a cult. Its founder is dead and it has a very clear and concise doctrine.
That said, the "religion" is batshit, and the Fair Game policy is rather intimidating.
You think so? Really?Flying-Emu said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_controversies
(This being the closest thing to an unbiased account of the whole hullabaloo you'll find, especially since Wikipedia's started cracking down on wiki-vandalism from both Scientologists and anti-Scientologists in recent years.)
Also the whole thing is a giant ripoff fueled by celebrities who've been wined-and-dined in order to give them a high public profile and funded by money taken from the people they're ripping off.
That said, I've a lot more sympathy for Anonymous than Scientology. And I don't find the latter fascinating in the least, especially since they're the same greedy, ruthless bastards as you'll find in any established religion or cult in human history--who, by the way, never seem to run out of suckers to join their ranks. There's really nothing fascinating about that, unless one's unfamiliar with dealing with the whole "evil bastard" thing.
Scientology makes a group of hackers, trolls, jackasses, and pornmonglers look like the good guys.
Well, my opinions on Scientology have waffled over the years almost as much as my thoughts on the gay rights movement.
Generally speaking the "Fair Game Policy" is basically them saying that their religion is NOT a turn the other cheek religion like Christianity. Rather than the whole principle of living humbly and waiting for a divine being or higher power to sort things out in the afterlife, it espouses ruthlessly addressing and destroying enemies as they appear.
Much like the church of warrior deities in fantasy RPGs (to put it into perspective). Although Scientology doesn't really feature anything I would consider divine from my understanding of it (quite the opposite).
The big question that arises when it comes to Scientology is what it actually does rather than it's doctrine. Over the years it's done a number of very ambigious things and I very much question a lot of it's practices that smack of brainwashing. However like any organization that has been around for a long while it's policies and actions have varied
with the times and I think a lot of it has come down to who was effectively wearing the
pants at the top of the pyramid at any given moment.
The problem with scientology is that they pretty much dance on the bleeding edge of concepts like freedom of religion, being the kind of group that those who came up with the concept of freedom of religion has never considered/conceived of having to deal with. You'd ultimatly have to start putting limits on one of the basic tenets of modern western civilization and risk a snowball effecxt to deal with them, and ultimatly nobody really wants to open that door.
I really think people spend more time worrying about them than they should.
Let's be honest, one of their major concerns seems to be public access to a lot of their documents which is an issue (unlike other religions) because they expect their members to effectively pay money, and/or sacrifice their freedom to be given those truths. It's an issue if anyone can look up a "big secret" on the internet. Their current attitude seems to be that only part of the information is publically availible and as such it's both dangerous (they are protecting us!) and seems to be unusually ridiculous because it's being presented out of context to people who have not been properly processed to that level.
The basic principle to my knowlege being that we're all supposed to be posssed by the spirits of aliens executed by Xenu (an alien tyrant) on earth using a hydrogen bomb on top of a volcano. These alien spirits holding us back from our true potential and by understanding the truth and encountering images from our past through scientologist writings, combined with very espensive "auditing" processes with their special machines, we can gradually resume our true power and clarity. This is what the whole "Operating Thetan" thing is supposed to be about, the more "cleansed" you are the more your able to process the new information properly, and allegedly the more powerful you become.
In reality though your OT level seems largely dependant on how much money you can give to the scientologists to buy their services, or (to a point) on your willingness to cloister yourself from the world and ultimatly become a slave for higher level Scientologists who did donate a lot of money.
I don't claim a perfect understanding, and heck, just reading Wikipedia's listings on some of the stuff it gets bloody complicated (differant levels of programming put into humanity by differant alien species at differant times in history, which must be understood and overcome, etc....), but simply put I figure it doesn't matter. Maybe it's just that I'm not initiated enough, but it sounds bloody insane.
Still, if that is what people want to spend their money on or dedicate their lives to, more power to them! That's part of what freedom is about, and if they find happiness that way, so much the better.
In general as long as the scientologists leave others alone I don't see an issue at the moment. Should they become more aggressive again (as seems to have been the case in the past) my opinions are liable to change, but right now they seem to be fairly mellow.
Generally speaking I *DO* oppose their censorship attempts, and feel they have made themselves fully worthy of the attention of Anonymous. However I do not think Anonymous is capable of actually taking them down outside of the Internet, unless they find some way to effectively become a terrorist organization that acts more effectively IRL than showing up in guy fawkes masks to get attention occasionally.
No offense to Anonymous or Project Chanology.
Generally speaking the "Fair Game Policy" is basically them saying that their religion is NOT a turn the other cheek religion like Christianity. Rather than the whole principle of living humbly and waiting for a divine being or higher power to sort things out in the afterlife, it espouses ruthlessly addressing and destroying enemies as they appear.
Much like the church of warrior deities in fantasy RPGs (to put it into perspective). Although Scientology doesn't really feature anything I would consider divine from my understanding of it (quite the opposite).
The big question that arises when it comes to Scientology is what it actually does rather than it's doctrine. Over the years it's done a number of very ambigious things and I very much question a lot of it's practices that smack of brainwashing. However like any organization that has been around for a long while it's policies and actions have varied
with the times and I think a lot of it has come down to who was effectively wearing the
pants at the top of the pyramid at any given moment.
The problem with scientology is that they pretty much dance on the bleeding edge of concepts like freedom of religion, being the kind of group that those who came up with the concept of freedom of religion has never considered/conceived of having to deal with. You'd ultimatly have to start putting limits on one of the basic tenets of modern western civilization and risk a snowball effecxt to deal with them, and ultimatly nobody really wants to open that door.
I really think people spend more time worrying about them than they should.
Let's be honest, one of their major concerns seems to be public access to a lot of their documents which is an issue (unlike other religions) because they expect their members to effectively pay money, and/or sacrifice their freedom to be given those truths. It's an issue if anyone can look up a "big secret" on the internet. Their current attitude seems to be that only part of the information is publically availible and as such it's both dangerous (they are protecting us!) and seems to be unusually ridiculous because it's being presented out of context to people who have not been properly processed to that level.
The basic principle to my knowlege being that we're all supposed to be posssed by the spirits of aliens executed by Xenu (an alien tyrant) on earth using a hydrogen bomb on top of a volcano. These alien spirits holding us back from our true potential and by understanding the truth and encountering images from our past through scientologist writings, combined with very espensive "auditing" processes with their special machines, we can gradually resume our true power and clarity. This is what the whole "Operating Thetan" thing is supposed to be about, the more "cleansed" you are the more your able to process the new information properly, and allegedly the more powerful you become.
In reality though your OT level seems largely dependant on how much money you can give to the scientologists to buy their services, or (to a point) on your willingness to cloister yourself from the world and ultimatly become a slave for higher level Scientologists who did donate a lot of money.
I don't claim a perfect understanding, and heck, just reading Wikipedia's listings on some of the stuff it gets bloody complicated (differant levels of programming put into humanity by differant alien species at differant times in history, which must be understood and overcome, etc....), but simply put I figure it doesn't matter. Maybe it's just that I'm not initiated enough, but it sounds bloody insane.
Still, if that is what people want to spend their money on or dedicate their lives to, more power to them! That's part of what freedom is about, and if they find happiness that way, so much the better.
In general as long as the scientologists leave others alone I don't see an issue at the moment. Should they become more aggressive again (as seems to have been the case in the past) my opinions are liable to change, but right now they seem to be fairly mellow.
Generally speaking I *DO* oppose their censorship attempts, and feel they have made themselves fully worthy of the attention of Anonymous. However I do not think Anonymous is capable of actually taking them down outside of the Internet, unless they find some way to effectively become a terrorist organization that acts more effectively IRL than showing up in guy fawkes masks to get attention occasionally.
No offense to Anonymous or Project Chanology.
I live with three Scientologists, essentially by accident. It's kind of strange: they have a son who talks constantly about how it would be terrible to be "a body" (non-spiritual being), and have presumably spent thousands in financing the church in spite of their own poverty (the father took a course on the Freewinds in '98, when he had three children to feed and was broke). Moreover, their whole belief system is structured around church doctrine - rationally follows it, rather than scientology following from rationality - and it's peculiar to hear them say things like if you're homosexual you were a female in a past life.
That said, the people aren't horrid, and neither is the CoS. They've done some bad things, but what are we comparing them to? The Catholic Church, who were complicit in the brutal Portugese and Spanish colonization of South America? Radical Hinduism? Evangelism? Communism? Our society has a de facto standard for the perceived morality of both secular and non-secular groups existing, and - whether you like it or not - Scientology doesn't stand out as being non-compliant with it.
That said, the people aren't horrid, and neither is the CoS. They've done some bad things, but what are we comparing them to? The Catholic Church, who were complicit in the brutal Portugese and Spanish colonization of South America? Radical Hinduism? Evangelism? Communism? Our society has a de facto standard for the perceived morality of both secular and non-secular groups existing, and - whether you like it or not - Scientology doesn't stand out as being non-compliant with it.
