Am I silly to be bothered by "equality" in my relationship?

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Liviola

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May 9, 2011
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Ok, so I'm in a pretty happy relationship (going on 5 years together now) but recently I've been having this weird feeling and I want to know what you guys think. Is this a common issue? Is he the asshole or am I the asshole? And what should I do?

Here's the issue. I'm in a relationship where we established that everything should be 50-50. We split it all 50-50, whether it's money, how much effort we put for each other, etc. But now, there are some factors and events that have made me start to question whether this philosophy will work in the long-term.

I'm naturally a generous person. I don't mind going above and beyond for the people I care about, and I don't mind giving and helping complete strangers with no expectation of anything back. So I often put in more than what he wants to put in, and I'm like "I'm just doing this because I want to". So, if I start expecting him to do as much as me (which he often just can't because it's more difficult for him and comes less naturally for him than for me), or if I get upset about him not doing as much as me, he can easily blame me for bringing it on myself because he never asked for extra nice treatment in the first place.


If you want more details/background about my relationship:
To sum up our personalities and the kind of couple we are, we're basically a nerd couple who found each other on the internet and we make the same jokes and like games and other nerdy stuff. We're basically best friends who also crushed on each other and we pretty much joke around 24/7 and are VERY RARELY serious or grown up and treat each other like bros. So that will give you an idea of how we're not really a traditional guy-girl pairing where I was "courted" or anything.

When we went out for dates, or had holidays, or basically anything money-related, we would split everything 50-50 because it's like 2 friends going out. We were both studying when we first dated.

When we started dating officially, my boyfriend moved interstate to be with me and lived with me and my parents for a few months while he looked for work and a new place. We never asked for rent or anything from him.

When it comes to domestic tasks, we also split it 50-50, but it didn't used to be.. I've had to "train" him over the years to do his share because he's overall lazier and messier than me when it comes to domestic maintenance (and I'm not a neat person myself if that gives you an idea). Now he's good, though.

Now he works a stable job that pays pretty well, and I work as a freelancer but it's a bit of a struggle for me because I'm starting out in a creative career so I don't have much money. He lives on his own.

So here comes one example of something that has bothered me recently: Neither of us have seen it necessary to have a car. We both catch public transport for the most part, and we get lifts from my dad when it's necessary. But my dad is actually getting quite old (i.e. past retirement age) and has cataracts (even after surgery he still can't see that well) and I don't feel comfortable about this arrangement anymore and I feel it's unfair to my dad. But I actually can't afford a car and I also haven't got a license. My boyfriend does. Ok, so I've brought up the topic of "maybe we need a car?" and his first response is "Why don't you get one then? :p" but obviously the more practical person to get a car right now is him because he has the money and the license. His response is "Why don't you get a job and license then? :p". If I further push the issue that my dad can't keep driving us, he will just say that he will be happy to walk everywhere and never get lifts, and even though that's difficult, it will save money. I'm thinking "Fair enough, but a car would seriously benefit the both of us", but his attitude is "Why am I the one who needs to get it? You will just get free rides. It's just as beneficial if you get it." It annoys me so I have just said "fine" and left the issue for now.

Here's another one. I got really sad last Valentine's because we didn't do anything and I didn't get anything. But at the same time I felt like I was to blame because we actually agreed beforehand that we don't need gifts or anything and we were both busy around that time anyway. My girl friends got super incensed when I told them this and said that it's his "responsibility" to give me something, at least a $2 rose or some shitty thing as a sentiment that he cares. I still can't help but feel I'm to blame as well because of our "ultra-equality let's be lazy together" agreement, and that it's sexist to expect him to give me something but not the other way around. So, I've tried to just suppress the sadness in the name of equality as well.

Oh! One more thing I forgot to add. My boyfriend is also particularly guarded/sensitive about the money issue because his first love took advantage of him and swindled a lot of money out of him. I figure that's why he's insistent on all money and expenses being equal. But while I'm mindful of how he's had this kind of trauma from a gold-digger-y ex, at the same time I'm a little bit annoyed at how he takes such a guarded attitude to his money even though after all these years I've proven to be a generous person and I'm pretty certain that money-wise I've actually spent way more on him than he has on me and yet he still doesn't seem to trust me. For example, he will keep track of every time I need to borrow a few dollars or cents out of practical reasons, yet completely forget all the times I've actually paid for his things, because I would do it happily without even thinking, whereas he would glare at me and look annoyed and do it reluctantly.

Basically, our "splitting everything 50-50" attitude is becoming a problem, particularly now that the situation has changed from him being the "poor" one, to me now being the "poor" one. When we go out for anything, it's still split 50-50, even though when you compare the price of the meal to the price of our incomes, it would be like 0.001% for him and like 30% for me, but we still do it out of principle of equality. Also the car issue (see spoiler).

Ok, so, thoughts?
 

gazumped

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Dec 1, 2010
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Big fat hairy feminist that I am, I am definitely all for the equality in relationships. I won't let people pay for dates unless I'm certain I'll be picking up the next bill, for example.

However, I think that holding such a regulated agreement about input can turn a relationship into a business agreement. I don't even know how you could have kept this up with someone for so long, I find the 50/50 agreement is impractical and bothersome after the first few months of dating a person, let alone the first 5 years.

Like you say, sometimes you've wanted to put extra in because he's not been earning as much as you. If this was a truly equal relationship then he'd be returning the favour now that you're not earning as much as him. Because this is why a relationship is not a business transaction - it's about helping each other out and being there for each other. If you're going to be keeping your lives separate then what's the point of being together?

This goes for the car thing as well - fair enough he doesn't want to be turned into your new car pool, but surely there's something that you can do extra for him to make up for him doing the extra driving? Equality doesn't mean everyone having to do the same thing, it means putting in an equal amount of effort and that can be in different areas depending on who is able to do what. Maybe he can get to drop a few household chores if he's taking up the chore of being the driver, for example?

As for the Valentine's thing, I also agree on not celebrating it with my partner and although I completely understand that it can make you feel a bit down when your girl mates are getting gifts and you're not, if you've made that decision, keep your practical head on and remember that it's a meaningless holiday and the gifts your friends are getting are hollow tokens that people got because they feel like they have to. HOWEVER, it's nice to get your partner presents sometimes because you GENUINELY THINK THEY MIGHT LIKE A THING (and not because it's some arbitrary day of the year) and if this isn't something that happens in your relationship then I really hope you at least surprise each other with some other kind of treat once in a while. (edit - just 'cause that might not have been clear, I meant that non-material surprises like a back rub or some other unasked for display of affection or appreciation are also good presents that don't actually cost money.)

To sum it up - I don't think your relationship is actually equal. I think that you are free and easy with your willingness to contribute to this relationship while your boyfriend keeps a tally of every favour and payment he makes and expects recompense. He needs to stop acting like your bank manager and start acting like your partner.
 

Liviola

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May 9, 2011
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lisadagz said:
*What you said*
Wow, I didn't expect the first response to be such a helpful response. Thanks Lisadagz! I will suggest to him the household chore trade thing and non-material gift thing :D
 

gazumped

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Liviola said:
lisadagz said:
*What you said*
Wow, I didn't expect the first response to be such a helpful response. Thanks Lisadagz! I will suggest to him the household chore trade thing and non-material gift thing :D
Very glad that you found it helpful. :) Good luck!
 

Rip Van Rabbit

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Lisadagz did an excellent job saying basically everything I initially wanted to say! :D

At this point, all I can do is reinforce the point's that were made.

I will say that the notion of equality in a relationship is a romantic philosophy that I completely agree with. It's extremely admirable, practical and aids in forging the strongest of bonds with regards to respect, trust, fair treatment and commitment.

Yet the notion of a complete 50-50 split is difficult to maintain at best. And equality only works when both partners are on board, collaborating and staying on the same page. You also have to recognize that there will be human inequalities despite how like-minded two partners can be together.

That said, it doesn't feel like your boyfriend is working entirely with you on all this. Your partner seems to be very rigid with the way he handles you, allowing very little room for compromise when situations certainly cannot be equal.

Transport situation: I believe your boyfriend is being very unfair here. Equality works within in moderation, therefore it has to be flexible. He should be well aware of the financial difference with regards to income within the relationship and allow some sensitivity, sacrifice and understanding on his part to allow the convenience for the both you. I'm sure you would do take the opportunity to ease factors within the relationship if the roles were reversed.

Valentine's day situation: When it comes to this day of the year, I believe it to be largely arbitrary, since the giving of gifts or surprises with treating one another should not be relegated to one day only. However, I do understand the feeling of watching others receive gifts while you stand there empty-handed. Since it invoked a feeling of sadness, I believe this is an issue that should be vocalized if the feelings persist any further. Small gestures but special gestures ranging special displays of affection to leaving a sweet note behind to know he's being thought of...they are much more fulfilling than a monetary gift in my opinion.

Despite the stress put on equality, you are a generous person by nature. I would say that some of your underlying frustrations with his actions (and inactions) stem from the suppression of your urge to simply give.

There is a way that you can indulge in your generosity more while still retaining a level of equality, think about both of your respective skills and responsibilities. Create plans that can aid in compromise between both roles.

Compromise and communication paves the way for equality. And at the end of the day, it doesn't always have to be equal. Sometimes (in certain situations) a 60-40 split works, maybe even a 65-35.

Couples end up working best if they can support one another and handle each other's weight from time to time. It shouldn't be a crutch, but (him) knowing when to give a little more to better your current situation as a whole will go a long way, and vice versa.

A 50 split may be safe, but there are times when compromise goes a lot further.

Best of luck :)
 

rutger5000

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Oct 19, 2010
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Look I've never been in a serious relationship, and I honestly doubt that I ever will. But even I know relationships aren't supposed to be a ballance sheat. It good to desire to be fair and equal, and it isn't necessarily a bad thing to extend that philosphy to financial situations. However you've got to realize that it isn't always realistic or desireable to put equal effort into it. So don't cling to that to much.
For instance your girlfriend was right, he should have done something nice for you on valentines day, even though you weren't going to do anything nice for him.
Regarding the car bussiness, well I've got to say I'm biased here. I can't drive for shit, and I'll never get my licence (I
ve taken a crazy ammount of lessons). Besides that I live in the Amsterdam / the Netherlands where we have excellent public transportation. I don't need or want a car, so I can see where your boyfriend is comming from. But assuming your American, can't you just buy a cheap car and get a licence easily? From what I understood you can get an okay car for just a few hundred bucks, and getting a licence only takes a single afternoon.
 

BrassButtons

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Nov 17, 2009
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Liviola said:
So here comes one example of something that has bothered me recently: Neither of us have seen it necessary to have a car. We both catch public transport for the most part, and we get lifts from my dad when it's necessary. But my dad is actually getting quite old (i.e. past retirement age) and has cataracts (even after surgery he still can't see that well) and I don't feel comfortable about this arrangement anymore and I feel it's unfair to my dad. But I actually can't afford a car and I also haven't got a license. My boyfriend does. Ok, so I've brought up the topic of "maybe we need a car?" and his first response is "Why don't you get one then? :p" but obviously the more practical person to get a car right now is him because he has the money and the license. His response is "Why don't you get a job and license then? :p". If I further push the issue that my dad can't keep driving us, he will just say that he will be happy to walk everywhere and never get lifts, and even though that's difficult, it will save money. I'm thinking "Fair enough, but a car would seriously benefit the both of us", but his attitude is "Why am I the one who needs to get it? You will just get free rides. It's just as beneficial if you get it." It annoys me so I have just said "fine" and left the issue for now.
Why don't you get a license and drive your dad's car? This would also allow you to drive him places he needs to go, since he's struggling with that.

The idea that your boyfriend should just buy a car because he "has the money" is, frankly, wrong. A car is a major purchase, involves recurring costs (instuance, gas, maintenance, and parking depending on where you live), and can impact credit scores if it can't be paid for up-front. And any money that goes toward those things cannot be used for anything else (such as a future down payment on a house, or paying off student loans).

How often do you need use of a car? Obviously he doesn't need one for daily life, or else he'd be more receptive to the idea. So how much use are you really going to get out of this, compared to the amount he spends on it? Sure he could start driving it everywhere just because he has it, but that's not a financially sound way of doing things.

Even buying a junker car is a major decision, and ultimately the person who's money is on the line is the one who gets to make that decision. And you need to respect that, even if the decision is something you dislike.

Here's another one. I got really sad last Valentine's because we didn't do anything and I didn't get anything. But at the same time I felt like I was to blame because we actually agreed beforehand that we don't need gifts or anything and we were both busy around that time anyway. My girl friends got super incensed when I told them this and said that it's his "responsibility" to give me something, at least a $2 rose or some shitty thing as a sentiment that he cares. I still can't help but feel I'm to blame as well because of our "ultra-equality let's be lazy together" agreement, and that it's sexist to expect him to give me something but not the other way around. So, I've tried to just suppress the sadness in the name of equality as well.
No, it is not his "responsibility" to buy you a gift on Valentine's, particularly if you specifically decided not to celebrate the holiday. He respected your wishes because he sees you as a human being capable of making decisions about what you like and dislike. That is his responsibility. If you've decided that you want gifts on Valentine's Day then that's fine, but you have to communicate that. He shouldn't have to guess at what you really want.

Oh! One more thing I forgot to add. My boyfriend is also particularly guarded/sensitive about the money issue because his first love took advantage of him and swindled a lot of money out of him. I figure that's why he's insistent on all money and expenses being equal. But while I'm mindful of how he's had this kind of trauma from a gold-digger-y ex, at the same time I'm a little bit annoyed at how he takes such a guarded attitude to his money even though after all these years I've proven to be a generous person and I'm pretty certain that money-wise I've actually spent way more on him than he has on me and yet he still doesn't seem to trust me. For example, he will keep track of every time I need to borrow a few dollars or cents out of practical reasons, yet completely forget all the times I've actually paid for his things, because I would do it happily without even thinking, whereas he would glare at me and look annoyed and do it reluctantly.
He's been burned. That kind of thing is difficult to get over (and I guarantee that you bugging him to buy a car is not helping any). This may even be something that he can't completely deal with on his own, and at some point down the road you may need to consider couples counseling to help with this.

"Once bitten twice shy", after all.

If this arrangement really isn't working out then you need to have a long talk (or several talks) about the issues you both have and how to resolve them. Try to do so without assigning blame. Focus on how you would like thing to be, instead of complaining about the current problems, and then figure out what you can do so that you both get what would make you happy.

ETA:

When we go out for anything, it's still split 50-50, even though when you compare the price of the meal to the price of our incomes, it would be like 0.001% for him and like 30% for me, but we still do it out of principle of equality.
I can think of three ways to deal with this: either change your policy so that you each pay for your own meal (and then split the cost of anything shared, like appetizers), stop going to places that stretch your budget, or reduce the frequency of those events so that the financial impact is lessened. Maybe try replacing a few of those dates with picnics in a park, or cooking together in one of your homes (personally I prefer the second option to going out most of the time, but then I'm an introvert).
 

manic_depressive13

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You've put up with this for five years? How can someone claim to love you when they resent having to spend so much as the price of a meal on you when they are earning more?

On the other hand, it's not fair to agree to something, then turn around and complain about it. How would a shitty $2 rose "prove" anything about how he feels?

Just stop putting in the extra effort for him and tell him he can't have lifts from your dad anymore. I honestly don't understand how a grown adult who has the capacity to buy and drive their own car would allow themselves to be chauffeured around by their partner's parents.
 

Calibanbutcher

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Nov 29, 2009
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Liviola said:
So let's start from the top:

Splitting everything, including the "small-ish" stuff:

This, to me, seems to be a bit excessive, since, the way I see it, being in a relationship also entails supporting one another and treating one another to something special every know and then, including, but not limited to, an evening out, a small gift every now and then or just paying for the fucking groceries every once in a while and clearly, when you were better off, you supported him, both emotionally and financially, so it seems that if yours is truly an "equal" relationship, now is his turn to support you for a bit, which would be the "right" thing to do.

But, as BrassButtons put it, expecting him / asking him to buy a car on your behalf is a tad much, especially if he doesnÄt really want or need one. What I would suggest is that you ask him to maybe help you with getting a license, whilst asking your parents if it would be ok for them if you used their car every once in a while. This way, your boyfriend won't have to purchase a car and deal with the hassle this enttails, nor the "hassle" of having to drive you around, and you would benefit as well, if this arrangement goes through. (+ having a license is pretty damn important, if you ask me).

The Valentine's day situation:
Did you get him anything? Or did you stick to your arrangement as well?
If not, then, in the spirit of fairness, I have to say that he really isn't to blame here.
Lesson learned for the next time: Don't make such an agreements if you don't truly want it. It shouldn't be his responsibility to figure out which agreements are OK to break and which aren't.
And did you consider that maybe he would have liked to get you something / do something for you, but decided not to do so, since he felt that you valued this agreement and thus the integrity of your relationship more highly than you valued valentine's day.


Now you wrote that your boyfriend has been through a bad experience with a former girlfriend of his but if he can't find it in himself to trust you, even after 5 years of being with you, maybe he should consider seeing a therapist.

The 50/50 split_ If money is such an issue for the two of you and you see each others as "bros" first and foremost, then I feel comfortable in telling you that REAL bros don't have to split everything. That's something "acquaintances" do. Bros care for one another and will sometimes foot the entire bill for once, especially if one of them is in a hard place at the moment, financially speaking, because it goes without saying that the other bro will return the favour on another occasion.
Example: One bro "A" has forgotten his wallet, but both bros "A+B" are hungry, so what happens?

A. Bro B pays the bill but keeps the receipt so he knows EXACTLY what bro A owes him. He later demands that bro A pay him
back the exact amount.

B. Bro B eats something, e,g, a lobster, and lets Bro A watch him eat.

C. Bro B gets a lawyer involved who draws up a contract, detailing the exact nature of him lending Bro A money, complete
with interest and an alloted schedule for how and when to pay him back.

D. Bro B tells Bro A "Don't worry, I got this" and they both get burgers. Bro A thanks Bro B. Bro B responds with "It's
nothing", knowing fully well that Bro A will get him back on another occasion. Afterwards they share an affectionate
fist bump.

E. Bro B starts shouting "MONEY AIN'T NO THING", showering Bro A with bills, champainge bottles are uncorked, strippers
materialize out of nowhere and they both ride into the sunset playing a wicked air guitar solo, eating giant fucking
steaks.

Answer D is generally considered to be correct, though Answer E is completely valid as well. Answer A and B are very wrong, Answer C is just abyssmal


Hell, not only Bromances work like that, but even plain ol regular friendships are usually based on the concept of "giving AND taking", and to me it seems as if you give more than your boyfriend is willing to give, yet he seems perfectly comfortable with doing a lot of "taking".

I think you should earnestly discuss this with him and, depending on how serious your relationship is, maybe go see a therapist together to get some counceling.
 

sarkeizen

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Jan 8, 2009
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Liviola said:
Ok, so, thoughts?
So there are three issues Valentines Day, Car and borrowing right?

Easy stuff first. Valentines day. Tell him simply that even though we agreed to do nothing you still felt a little unhappy when you didn't get anything and that - even a little something would have been nice. Make it clear that you're not saying you blame him. Then wait and see what happens. This should clear this up no problem.

Car. This is more tricky when you're dating. My wife and I have separated finances but we proportionally contribute to expenses based on income and use. i.e. She bought our first car because she needs it for work (and I barely get to use it) and she makes more than I do. I'm buying the second car.

Without a mutual agreement like this it gets harder. IMHO you should approach this more like a proposal rather than a "We" thing. That is, you should say "Hey, I'm feeling guilty about using my father for any more driving. I also think that having a car is still pretty important to the things I want to do. Is there any way you can help me do this?". The solution might be that you do need to get a job and a licence and take care of gas and payments but he will make the down payment and pay for maintenance or something. If he's not interested you could use this to open a dialog to find out if if he's saving towards something else or has other large expenditures in the future. Maybe saving for a house is a bigger priority for him. You should also firmly but kindly not take any crap about how you feel about your dad doing things or what things you think are important. These are *your* things and they are not up for discussion.

It pays to have done your research too. Find a car, figure out the down and payments and the interest rate. At least so you can have a ballpark figure when you talk with him about it. Cars are expensive to buy, own and maintain so without knowing your boyfriends income it's at least plausible that he might refuse simply because it would move you closer to living hand-to-mouth than he feels comfortable with.

Borrowing money, is trickier it might be as simple as bringing up how being under this level of scrutiny makes you feel. However if it is making you feel bad and he's unwilling to talk about it. It might be better to simply not borrow from him.