Am I the only person who kind of hates Valve?

[Awexsome]

I respect them as a company and think they're great PC developers (if pretty average/bad console ones.)

I find them almost exactly the same as my favorite dev, Bungie. Heavily invested in their community and have made huge, revolutionary, fundamentally great games that some people just don't care for. I can never hate a dev that goes so far out of their way as Valve does for their community. That's a rarity in the business.

 

[qeinar]

This thread on Valve hate does touch off on something that has been bothering me for awhile. The blending of PC and Consoles. In my mind, each has its strenghts. PC is the best when it comes to first person shooters or any type of RTS games. Consoles are the best when it comes to games that basically revolve around movement (which is pretty much everything else).

Sports games? consoles.
third person shooters? consoles.

but lately consoles are focusing more and more on first person perspective, and not just for shooters. It is infecting rpgs as well. Now, some FPS work well on consoles, but they are kinda a rarity (i would put halo on that list. works better on consoles than pc).

but a game like left for dead has no place on consoles. it is a game about coordination and PRECISION (key word here). at least once you get past the normal difficulty. I cringe whenever someone picks up an autoshotty because they will most likely be a bigger threat to my livelihood than any zombie can possibly be. and that is on the PC where you have much more precision. If i played that on the console and my teammate picked up an autoshotty i would run screaming from my teammates as that is more frightening than facing 2 tanks.

thats on the advanced level. the friendly fire is not so bad on normal, but honestly what is the point? the zombies are laughably easy on normal.

although on versus speed is the only important factor. i could not imagine how annoying it must be to get a good pounce as a hunter on the console.

bringiing up l4d reminded me of something; I had a party once where i wanted to show 2 of my mates some l4d custom map, i was pretty drunk and just played normally. after the weekend i heard from 1 of them that they thought i played like a god, even though i waf pretty drunk, it probably wasn't great by pc standards, but for them it seemed pretty impressive since they are pretty much console only. (I've also played l4d with them on the console where they had slightly better aim than me, seemed like we struggled a lot more than i do on the pc.)

 

[nklshaz]

I never got who cares who develops the games, why do people build this big fan excitement for a company? I can understand being a fan of a GAME but why the company? Companies change people/employment all the time and it's not always the same teams developing the same games. And it's a company, I can't remember ever showing favoritism over any company ever besides when I was a kid.

But people get attached and I get slightly more confused all the time.
Do I hate valve? No but I do like most of their games and the TF2 blog always provides a laugh.

If you're wondering why it takes valve so long to get DLC out for games like that, they're a small company and Microsoft has a large process that developers have to go through. Valve being a small indie company (yes most people forget they are infact indie) probably don't put much time into it because it takes so long for Xbla but it takes 5 minutes via steam with no hassle.

I couldn't agree more with your point about the strange attachments/resentments that people form with companies. Like you said, the list of people employed by a company changes constantly, but I can never seem to explain to my friends that regardless of the fact that the outside of the box never changes, what's in it is always different. Thank you for explaining this much needed point.

 

[Vindictus]

Valve has been under the same leadership, more or less, since they first created Half Life. So it's not really a valid point to claim "oh wellz u shundt b fans cos it changes".

Personally, I could care less that they put little focus on consoles. Too many companies hurt/destroy games because they put too much effort into creating a multi-platform title.

The only thing I can fault Valve for is -very- slow releases and a couple of silly things like L4D2.

 

[Grabbin Keelz]

Wow, a lot more people agreed than I expected. So many that I was a little afraid to make my post.
Of course I love Valve now as much as I loved Nintendo in my childhood. I don't own X-box Live so it'd make sense that I want to play PC games, Valve is one of the few developers that actually makes updates...for free.

Wanna know what happens whenever there's a few problems with online console games such as the spawning problems in Black Ops or the infinite stun in Assassins Creed? Nothing thats what, you just have to wait until they make the next game and buy it. Also the games are cheap if not free and....why is Valve bad again?

Also, I've never had a problem with Steam for about a year now, and it's a great source of indie games that are less than ten dollars.

In fact, the more I write the more I can't understand the hate for Valve and Steam, could someone bring me back to Earth and explain why please?

 

[joshthor]

as a mainly pc gamer i love valve. as a console gamer...i can see where valve would not be a good developer in your eyes. fact is valve doesnt make ANYTHING for consoles, EA ports it for them. DLC doesnt go through because valve likes free stuff and microsoft does not like giving things for free. in the case of team fortress 2 if they did put out updates for the consoles to keep the current version you would be paying 5 - 10 bucks a month.

 

[Idocreating]

They are, however, the most honest devs around and give all their DLC away for free (not including hats and other optional aesthetic choices).

This is a perfect answer to the OP's issue about DLC for the console ports of games like TF2 and Left 4 Dead. Valve cannot give them away for free like they want to due to Microsoft/Sony's bullshit rules, so they went down the option of just ignoring them altogether and spending more time on making more content for PC owners.

Gotta admit, great games, honest company, naff for the console market.

 

[tzimize]

"This is mostly because they just don't seem to know how to make a console game if their lives depended on it." This line right here made me laugh out a tiny tear. Who cares? They are a PC developer.

Afaik the reason they have trouble with DLC is because MS has decided that ALL DLC shall cost money on xbox live NO MATTER WHAT. And Valve wants to give us their DLC free.

If you seriously manage to fault Valve for that there is no convincing you.

Valve recently released DLC for Portal 2. For free. They are releasing MOD TOOLS so players can make their own levels. Instead of bleeding customers for a few extra buck with shit content like some other developers.

Valve are not gods, they are not infallible, but they are damn well lightyears ahead of IW/Treyarch!

not true,fable 3 has free dlc(albeit a hat) and i am sure others have free stuff(actually i think SC4 has some free stuff too) but go ahead,bad mouth MS cause its the cool thing among douchey people nowadays.

No need to get cheeky, I only say what I've read other places. And I put an "afaik" in there, admitting I might be wrong. I'm sure there are more details to it than that, but there is no getting around that steam is on PS3 now, and not on xbox. I'm pretty sure that is not Valves fault

 

[Wuggy]

You're never the only one, Valve has made many contributions to the gaming industry to earn people's respect, you are never the only one, you are entitled to your opinion, you are never the only one, this thread will devolve into flaming in approximately three posts by my estimate, YOU ARE NEVER THE ONLY ONE.
/thread

Holy crap. This is the first time I've seen someone declare themselves having /thread on the first post and actually being accurate.

YOU ARE NEVER THE ONLY ONE!

Oh, and I don't have a problem with Valve: Mainly a PC gamer, so don't care about console stuff. Never played a bad Valve game in my life and I use Steam nearly every day. So there.

YOU'RE NEVER THE ONLY ONE!

 

[Doom-Slayer]

This may sound kind of backwards, and it is, but while I like their games, as developers they wouldn't be in my Top 5.

Yes...yes it is backwards..why? Because they are a PC developer. All of their best games are PC-exclusives and they are only JUST beginning to branch into it to widen their audience. And even if you ARE going to do something bizzaro and complain about a PC devs console track record...as I just said..they are just starting out. Steam is slowly being released to consoles and up until then, they released almost nothing to the console..why? Because they dont make games for that market.

It seems rather strange to say a developer shouldnt be in any Tp 5 because they dont do both markets. Last I checked their are a bunch of console exclusives that are made by amazing devs, should we say they suck because they cant make games for the PC?

 

[Semitendon]

No, you aren't the only one.

I don't like Valve either.

Here's the thing, I don't play on PC, so Steam is what come out of a teapot to me.

I bought the Orange Box, I hated Half Life and didn't even finish it because I despised it so much. I enjoyed Portal, but not enough to buy Portal 2. I didn't even start playing TF, because by that point I had spent 50$ on a good mini game, assed out on the main game, and wasn't willing to keep playing after that.

I have played L4D at a friends house, and while the game was okay, I've played better zombie games.

So, Valve to me, is a company with raving lunatic fans, screaming "half life is the best game evar!", but in my opinion they have only produced one viable game, and nothing else.

If you like Valve, good for you, you're entitled to think that, but I am not impressed.

 

[Zeh Don]

They are also a relatively small studio. The fact that they are able to make any games at all, good or bad is amazing by my standards.

Valve are more profitable than Apple. Let that sink in.

Valve is positioning itself in between gamers and their games.

 

[Elsarild]

Since when is it wrong for 1 company to focus more on one market that is proven to have a high monetary value?

Consoles are less prone (and evidence to that claim is slowly fading) to Piracy, yes, but developers hates pre-owned games even more, because their netloss is even worse, since many pirated games you can't play online, you can with pre-owned games.

PC has higher piracy yes, but Valve has their own platform to launch everything, and can supply updates, DLC, content 100% and can price and bundle however they like.

Microsofts ToA has always been harsh on developers wanting to get in on their market, from controlling DLC to beeing very ineffective at processing, to forcing them to up the price by 5-10% to cover the costs.

I can't blame Valve for wanting to focus on a market they have so much control over, and have proved time and time again they know how to develop for.

Blaming someone for doing what they do best is kind of like blaming a Tiger for killing a gazelle, it's pointless, and you're not going to force the tiger to stop.

 

[repeating integers]

This thread on Valve hate does touch off on something that has been bothering me for awhile. The blending of PC and Consoles. In my mind, each has its strenghts. PC is the best when it comes to first person shooters or any type of RTS games. Consoles are the best when it comes to games that basically revolve around movement (which is pretty much everything else).

Sports games? consoles.
third person shooters? consoles.

but lately consoles are focusing more and more on first person perspective, and not just for shooters. It is infecting rpgs as well. Now, some FPS work well on consoles, but they are kinda a rarity (i would put halo on that list. works better on consoles than pc).

but a game like left for dead has no place on consoles. it is a game about coordination and PRECISION (key word here). at least once you get past the normal difficulty. I cringe whenever someone picks up an autoshotty because they will most likely be a bigger threat to my livelihood than any zombie can possibly be. and that is on the PC where you have much more precision. If i played that on the console and my teammate picked up an autoshotty i would run screaming from my teammates as that is more frightening than facing 2 tanks.

thats on the advanced level. the friendly fire is not so bad on normal, but honestly what is the point? the zombies are laughably easy on normal.

although on versus speed is the only important factor. i could not imagine how annoying it must be to get a good pounce as a hunter on the console.

That's odd, because I actually think L4D works better on consoles. It's a party game, one you should be able to play with friends - so the console version has splitscreen, which suits it perfectly. Pity it's only 2-way splitscreen - being able to have a group of friends play all 4 survivors in one room would be epic. And the controls really aren't very hard to get a grip of (if you've played FPS games on consoles before, which I do all the time).

 

[justnotcricket]

First, you're never the only one.

I'd be surprised if anyone could come up with a philosophy in which they were the only one.

Yes, I know, Microsofts update/DLC policies are kind of shit. But when you can't even get a map pack out, that's pretty sad. What really annoys me is that for years they've been pointing the finger at Microsoft (And Sony) going "It's not us! It's them! They won't let us!" whilst other, more competent developers are able to get out a ton of DLC with little fuss.

What's more, Valve lies about Microsoft's policy. Several companies have updated their games in the way Valve said they could not, including games as large as EA (Burnout Paradise) and as small as Über (Monday Night Combat). Not to mention they were okay with Super Meat Boy's methods. So it's not like they can't, they just won't. Why? Because they want STEAM on XBox. That's it. nothing more. If Microsoft doesn't let them dominate the market like a monopoly should they will hold their breath until they turn blue and get their fans to rant about the big evil Microsoft.

Not that MS is without sin, it's just that I've found most of the gamer's darlings turn out to be shitheads who use their fanbase. Mojang's recent pissing contest with Obsidian is HILARIOUS because Notch is lying to people to play the poor underdog and they eat it up.

Again, not that Obsidian is without sin, just that Notch, like Valve, is all "fuck truth, we have a slobbering horde of fanboys! SIC 'EM!"

Honestly, I have no loyalty to any of the above. I don't align myself with anyone whose job is to try and make the most profit off me they can. I'm not "anti-capitalism" or anything, I just don't mistake PR for "friendship" or whatever.

Valve really sucks in a lot of ways, but people don't care because they have game sales and titles that people love. I'm pretty sure they could steal your wallet and shoot your dog as long as they put out a Christmas sale or two.

Ah =) It makes me happy when I read a post that makes so much good common sense. Well said, Zachary Amaranth.

I have no strong personal feelings about Valve one way or the other. I base my strongest feelings on individual games, since they are what I paid for, and I refuse to sign up as some sort of card-carrying defender for a company. So, while I'd agree that you're certainly not the only one to hate Valve, I'd suggest that you save strong emotions like hate for things that really warrant it. Like feijoas. ;-P

 

[Trippy Turtle]

I don't like many of their games. Portal 2 was fun but as for the others I found them kind of meh. Amazingly made sure, but I just didn't find them very fun.

 

[sgtslacker]

Also, why is it acceptable for Valve to be primarily a PC developer and make bad ports for consoles, but when a primarily Console developer makes a bad port for the PC, the developer is the child of Satan and should die?

2 things to respond to this:

1. Valve makes good ports for their games they just do not keep them up to date with dlc but I have the orange box on both the Xbox 360 (don't ask why) and the PC and both work great the PC just happens to have all the large updates.

2. To actually answer your question in my opinion it is because of the numbers, (How many PC games are ported to the console every year? Honestly I can count on one hand that number in some cases 1 finger) and also because PC gamers are a minority when it comes to gamers and the minority in an argument is always the loudest.

PS In case you haven't noticed us PC Gamers are actually a master race that is clearly more important than anyone else in the world. Its True

 

[Lukeydoodly]

I agree. It takes them forever to make a game, and even then it's quite shallow.


Haha remember Valve repeatedly saying "the 360 TF2 DLC is coming!" over and over again for 2 years? Citing 'RAM issues' and other shit?

If it was Microsoft stopping you from releasing TF2 360 DLC Valve, why don't you just say so, instead of repeatedly lying?

Although, I guess their rabid fanbase is pretty awful too.

 

[Knife-28]

Now, I don't hate Valve, I don't love them, I mean, their development cycle is just terrible, but their ok developers. No, what I hate is Steam, not as a digital distribution platform, but as DRM. It is fucking horrible, 'Oh, did you buy this game in store did you, well fuck you, we're gonna make you install steam and wait while we force you to install all the updates before you can even touch them.' Seriously, when I buy a game at retail, I expect to be able to play my bloody games, instead of you locking me out of games I have pay'd good money for because I won't install fucking steam. Who ever thought up that little gem deserve a wack round the face. Don't get me wrong, Half Life and Portal are some great game series, but the hoops and bullshit I have to jump through to actually play them, seriously Valve, what a dick move.
Oh, and if you have a crappy internet connection or, like me, have an internet plan with a set amount of bytes per month, those updates are a real *****.