Am I the only person who kind of hates Valve?

[Treblaine]

Uhh, what the hell are you playing their games on console for? It has been said over and over again that PC is THE BEST platform, for their games especially.

They are so respected as developers because THEY DO NOT compromise their game design to pander to the frankly inferior - in every way - console platform. Are you serious about gaming? Because if you are, why are you gaming on casual platform?

Seriously, get into PC gaming. Stop making excuses. It's like saying Naughty Dog is a crap developer because they won't release their game on PC. Nope.avi just get a PS3. If you like Valve games get into PC gaming. Simple as.

Valve have their hand forced, they want to release map packs for free but they can't. They can do that on PC. Don't blame THEM for the shitty platform you chose to play on. The type of games they make are COMPLETELY UNSUITED to consoles, fundamentally. Yes they can "work" on consoles but it's not playing to their advantage.

Oh god, buying console version of Valve games GRAUUUGHHHH MY BRAIN!! WHY!? WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT!!!?!!! WHYYYYYY!!!

Personal Message me your PC stats and I'll let you know what you have to do to get into PC gaming. Christmas is coming.

(You are using a PC RIGHT NOW, don't make excuses)

I'm a PC gamer, and the snobbery in your post is unbelievable. Please stop giving us a bad name.

Weird, because I remember that post got eaten and I made another totally different one.

DAMN YOU ESCAPIST FORUMS! Why U no work right!?!

This is the post I meant to be seen:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.319607.13045903

 

[Assassin Xaero]

This is mostly because they just don't seem to know how to make a console game if their lives depended on it. Sure Valve's PC releases are great and all (Although I know quite a few people that say TF2 is a pile of shit now), but their (they're?) console release record is pretty damn spotty.

Not to be a jerk about this, but seriously? Can't us PC gamers have some decent release games while the console versions aren't as great. Because, well, Valve is one of the very few companies that actually makes a half way decent computer versions of games and doesn't just port them over from the console.

I'll admit, I only really like Half-Life and Portal is ok, but I don't care for TF2 or CS at all. But it is nice that we at least get one developer who hasn't turned to favor the 360 and shaft the PC (unlike Epic, Crytek, Infinity Ward, Treyarch, Obsidian/Bethesda (whichever you want to blame for the 360 getting New Vegas DLC before PC and PS3), probably soon GSC Game World...).

 

[pppppppppppppppppp]

Ugh, could we stop it with the "Am I the only one who [insert controversial opinion here] threads?

Blah blah Valve's awesome blah blah Orange Box was good on the 360 blah blah entitled to your opinion blah. I'm really just going through the motions here...

 

[Vigormortis]

Ok completely ignoring the existence of steam for this query. Valve as developers.

Im inclined to agree. Im not fond of valve either. However, its for different reasons. Honestly I am not the sort of gamer who lives, eats, breathes shooters, and personally i LOATHE any sort of military based shooter. (not a big fan of having recruitment tools pushed on me) So to me Valve is just slightly more familiar than say Infinity ward/trearch, etc.

The point that gets me with Valve is that out of the essentially 4 big franchises they are most notable for, (Halflife, Portal, Team fortress, Left 4 Dead) they are basically purely focused on the shooter gameplay mechanic (Yes, I know its a puzzle game, but mechanic wise portal is still rooted in a shooter) They really do not branch out very far from their home base. When they do, typically it comes from purchasing intellectual properties or from absorbing smaller developers. (see portal, TF, L4D)

So really, when you get down to the nuts and bolts of it Valve is responsible for creating 1 out of their big 4 properties. and essentially buying the rest with the intention to develop it. Much like what is likely to betheir next big property will be Defense of the ancients 2 of which will be another purchased property.

Yet back in march we saw it first hand. The unadulterated adoration was astounding as it was represented by sheer vile and venom at the concept that an indie developer that had yet to fully launch 1 game had somehow managed to topple a developer who has made so many. But does it still count if they actually had not developed a property of their own since 2004, instead just buying out properties like it was a big game of developer monopoly? When Microsoft did the same thing in the 80s, it was viewed as an evil empire. When Valve does it today they are viewed as benevolent gaming benefactors above all criticism and quite frankly thats a load, and that is not enough to merit the loyalty of which they receive.

It reminds me of the Star Wars ratio. 1.5 good films averaging out to encompass 6 mediocre ones. They are good developers in that they have the luxury of not rushing products, but thats from the strength of steam that affords them that ability now. Even with that luxury, their games are good, but never great, and really how many years do you get to hang on to glories developed in 2004?

I'm sorry, but I have to confront you on this.

Do you honestly believe Valve is the only company who, as you put it, "buys out properties"? Really? Virtually every developer out there gets its ideas from outside sources or hired creative teams. They will often purchase intellectual properties as the basis of their games. People who wag their finger at Valve as if they're the only ones who do this are kinda funny. If a bit naive.

However, you are right about one thing. Valve is different than most in that regard. How you ask? Because they don't steal the ideas or just buy the property rights from the original creators and then leave those creators in the dust. They actually hire the entire team behind the projects. Counter-Strike? Whole mod team hired to make 1.6 and Source. Portal? Entire Digipen team hired on and given creative freedom to do what they will with Portal. Team Fortress? Well, you get the idea.

The point I'm trying to make here is that it's a bit hypocritical to call Valve out on acquiring intellectual properties from outside sources. Pretty much any developer that's been around a certain amount of time does this. Whether it be by buying a story or hiring someone who has the idea. So if one "hates" Valve because of this, then they hate about 95% of all game developers out there.

While I do love the Half-Life series, it's not the sole reason I like Valve, as you seem to be implying of all Valve fans. I like them for their catering to the gaming community (not just PC), their willingness to continually support their game releases for years after their release (unlike many console devs), and their development policy of polishing every product to a mirror shine. Not to mention I've thoroughly enjoyed just about every game they've released.

Now, if you don't like their games, that's fine. It's a matter of personal preference. I'm sure their are plenty of games that you love that I don't. But all these people saying Valve is a bad developer are just being irrational. I don't like a single Bioware game. Not a single one. Yet, I'll never sit here and proclaim that I hate them or that they are a terrible game developer. They make finely crafted games. They're just not my kind of game.

 

[Treblaine]

-Steam is bloated

Please explain? It's not bloated at all... have you used Origin?

Hey well what can EA do? Origin has to be both oppressively controlling DRM and invasive spyware at the same time, bloat is inevitable but even considering all that I suppose it is very bloated.
*Snark Snark Snark*

 

[Alade]

I do not enjoy valves games because I do not enjoy first person games. I can see how those games appeal to someone else, but not to me.

 

[Vault101]

This may sound kind of backwards, and it is, but while I like their games, as developers they wouldn't be in my Top 5.

This is mostly because they just don't seem to know how to make a console game if their lives depended on it. Sure Valve's PC releases are great and all (Although I know quite a few people that say TF2 is a pile of shit now), but their (they're?) console release record is pretty damn spotty.

Yes, I know, Microsofts update/DLC policies are kind of shit. But when you can't even get a map pack out, that's pretty sad. What really annoys me is that for years they've been pointing the finger at Microsoft (And Sony) going "It's not us! It's them! They won't let us!" whilst other, more competent developers are able to get out a ton of DLC with little fuss. I mean, they announced the next bit of DLC for L4D2 around January. And it's not like they're building entirely new maps, they're just porting some old L4D1 maps. Any other developer could have knocked that out in a few short months. How is it other developers like Bethesda and Gearbox and even Infinity Ward/Treyarch are dependent enough to get out a good amount of DLC and updates for their games yet Valve can only get out, what? 2 bits of DLC for L4D2? Over almost two years? Both using the exact same last map to boot!

I've tried to criticism Valve in the past and am usually met with a tidal wave of hate because "They made Steam!" or "They made Half-Life/TF2/Portal!" Everybody seems to give them a free pass and I just find it shameful.

yes you are the only one

you are the only person who really SEE's the truth in this world of valve loving zombies

 

[The Random One]

Nope, I kind of hate them as well.

For completely opposite reasons, though. As publishers, I feel they are a positive force in the industry, as they are showing the viability of a 'do good' business model. As developers, though... God, Half-Life 2 is the most poorly designed game ever created in a year starting with 2.

 

[Particulate]

I've tried to criticism Valve in the past and am usually met with a tidal wave of hate because "They made Steam!" or "They made Half-Life/TF2/Portal!" Everybody seems to give them a free pass and I just find it shameful.

I have a bit of an issue with Valve as well. And I love Half Life 1 and 2, the Portal Series, I've messed around with Left 4 Dead, and Counter Strike is still fucking awesome. TF2 also gets an honorable mention for being the rare combination of solid FPS and amusing. Plus there's Steam which is now an integral part of how lots of people obtain games in general. But my issue is with their development cycles. Yes, it's been done to death, but it's a pretty serious issue. Lets look at two other games for comparison:

Minecraft costs a few fistfuls of Quarters and offers a limitless world of creativity and peril. Do what you want, when you want, how you want. It's all the charm of a box of legos with an Apocalyptic online community. And this miraculous toolbox is updated fairly frequently. New monsters, new features, further complexity and depth. And what massive triple A publisher sees to this? Actually it's just ONE GUY who on a good day might have some helpers on hand. That's it. A handful of people have designed, distributed, maintained, and then updated one of the truest open-world experiences ever and done it in a reasonable time frame.

On the flip side we have the beast that is Activision which manages to orchestrate development teams and schedules so that a new game in their top selling Call of Duty franchise will be released consistently each and every year... forever. Every year we can expect them to come up with a new Triple A shooter. This scheduling has been adopted by other companies as well. Ubisoft for instance has said that they've found that the ideal time frame to develop a new Assassin's Creed game is 11 months.

So what's Valve's excuse? It can't be lack of money... they're one of the popular companies in the industry and people still buy their older games because they're just that good. It can't be lack of staffing because Notch and his band of hooligans can muster updates and additional content like no-one's business and you could probably fit all of them in the back of a van. Extensive QA cycles? I think not.

Hence my problem. I love their work, I'd just like to see more of it.... or see it on some sort of routine schedule that they actually stick to. Because nearly every other company out there can manage to set down a time frame and stick to it and some of those groups can even deliver a stellar experience or two.

 

[CthulhuMessiah]

-Steam is bloated

Please explain? It's not bloated at all... have you used Origin?

My PC is craptacular, so being forced to having a program that uses slightly more resources that it should while playing a game isn't good.

I have never used Origin because while I hate Valve, I LOATHE EA, but I have heard it was faster than Steam, but don't take my word for it.

I swear I had this Captcha before.

 

[Yanzo]

While it's not a good thing when developers give certain consoles special treatment, it sure is nice for the shoe to be on the other foot; meaning I'm glad consoles have to wait for epic games instead of the PC. I may just b irritated I have to wait 1 damn month to get Arkham City, but still. Always nice to have one good company prioritizing the PC.

As for the whole thing with L4D2 DL; Valve aren't too great for timing (look at the Half-Life series, why'd that suddenly stop and the episode 1 and 2 tooks a while to arrive) as noted with the "Valve Time" saying. But that said I'd rather it take them twice as long as other developers to make a game as long as the game was really good (considering their track record they're holding up well to it) than them squirting out mediocore game after mediocore game like some kind of rabbit developer machine thing.

 

[Snake Plissken]

I don't hate Valve, but I didn't enjoy either Half Life game, and I think Gordon Freeman is a shitty character.

 

[Sigma Van Lockheart]

The reason valve say its "microsoft/sony fault" is because they want to make you pay for DLC where as valve's(not sure about the people working there but Gabe Newell things this) thinks that paying for DLC is stupid and should not be done as it should be free. That?s why you don?t get DLC on console. (Also I?m trying to be Nice. Note I would rip you limb from limb as I am a PC elitist and i love Valve but I?m not that?s me being nice.)

 

[Something Amyss]

not true,fable 3 has free dlc(albeit a hat) and i am sure others have free stuff(actually i think SC4 has some free stuff too) but go ahead,bad mouth MS cause its the cool thing among douchey people nowadays.

This is what gets me. Constantly.

"But you can't have free DLC!"

TONS of games have had free DLC. A lot of it has been pretty minor, but still.

"But you can't update or patch games!"

I don't know, I get tons of updates and patches. Some of the updates have included pretty major overhauls. Hell, that game Hydrophobia or whatever it was called got completely overhauled and was hailed as practically a new game.

I kind of wonder if the people who rant have any clue what they're talking about.

 

[conflictofinterests]

What? Valve has slow/missed release dates? Why I have never in all my life heard of such a thing!!1

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time

:|

Other than that they started out on the PC, I'm not sure they've designed a single game first for console and then for PC, and they're still pretty new at the whole porting business. Also, the current team may not like it. Lord knows Valve doesn't work on things they don't feel like working on. See above link.

 

[Something Amyss]

The reason valve say its "microsoft/sony fault" is because they want to make you pay for DLC where as valve's(not sure about the people working there but Gabe Newell things this) thinks that paying for DLC is stupid and should not be done as it should be free. That?s why you don?t get DLC on console. (Also I?m trying to be Nice. Note I would rip you limb from limb as I am a PC elitist and i love Valve but I?m not that?s me being nice.)

Oh hell, let me say it one more time: Free DLC exists on the 360. I'm pretty sure Sony has even MORE free content on PSN.

So...Ummm...Yeah. I'm pretty sure this will have no impact, because this thread is flooded with apologists who are toeing the same false line, but I had to try.

 

[TheDooD]

I don't really care for their games so much, yet Steam is very helpful for PC gamers.

 

[viranimus]

Snipped

No my friend, you are right, but at the same time wrong.

Your right in that most major studios DO buy out talent, IPs, etc. That IS the nature of the industry and No one faults valve for doing that.

Your wrong however in your comprehension of why I bring that up as a point. Its not that valve buys an IP and then claims it as its own. Its that Valve hasnt released anything of its own that wasnt directly someone elses creation, or a sequel to a franchise that was previously bought since 2004. One truly proprietary property in ....7 years?!?! How many other developers could stand going over 7 years without releasing a new property of their own?

So to make it perfectly crystal clear. Its not that valve does it. Its that valve has practically done nothing else.

Just as you mentioned, they hire the teams of which they purchase the property, so they still arent developing anything themselves. Its the original team developing with Valve pulling the reigns of that development on sequels and continued installments. Which really moves them away from being developers and more into the realm of being publishers with much more strict rules and regulations over intellectual property. Thats why I am not fond of valve. They get this unmitigated loyalty for being "awesome developers" when really all they are is a group of overly controlling publishers that havent developed anything of their own in the last 7 years.

 

[Tomwyr]

I'm quite fine with Valve. I'm quite fine with Steam, because it's a very valid option to purchase games where I live. I don't really care if Valve caters for consoles, but then the last console I owned was a PS1, solely PC ever since, and I play mostly strategy games.

I wonder how one would play HOI3 on a console (I DID play CIV2 on PS1...)

 

[Toriver]

I don't really hate Valve, but they're not one of my favorite devs or publishers. I can't run Steam or most of the latest games on my PC, so I'm not really a PC gamer, and I don't much care for shooters anyway, so I don't really have an attachment to them. They've given me no reason to hate them, but I don't particularly like them either.

But their fanboys are SO annoying. About as annoying as Bethesda fans lately.