AMD to nVidia: Put Up or Shut Up

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Baneat

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Jesus Phish said:
Competition is healthy and all, but I couldn't give a fiddlers which one of them has the current fastest graphics card at the moment. I'd never spend that kind of money on a single piece of hardware for a computer, it's beyond the scope of what I need my computer to do.

The one reason I've stuck with Nvidia throughout the years is because I've never (Me, personally, this person here) have had an issue or problem with their hardware or drivers. I have had problems with ATI cards in other machines.
It's more of a space race e-peen thing, I wouldn't be suprised if developing these top-tier cards actually lost them money in sales(Consider the Veyron), but being the company with the highest performing graphics card is enough to justify trying it.

Is intel still winning over AMD? AMD were excellent during pentium, then it went to quad cores and they got murdered (I bought the AMD quad cause I assumed they were still better :()

ATi are killing nVidia right now, though, all the cards are running cooler and using less power (I actually bought my ATi card because it uses so much less energy than the equivalent nVidia)
 

MrTub

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Baneat said:
Jesus Phish said:
Competition is healthy and all, but I couldn't give a fiddlers which one of them has the current fastest graphics card at the moment. I'd never spend that kind of money on a single piece of hardware for a computer, it's beyond the scope of what I need my computer to do.

The one reason I've stuck with Nvidia throughout the years is because I've never (Me, personally, this person here) have had an issue or problem with their hardware or drivers. I have had problems with ATI cards in other machines.
It's more of a space race e-peen thing, I wouldn't be suprised if developing these top-tier cards actually lost them money in sales(Consider the Veyron), but being the company with the highest performing graphics card is enough to justify trying it.

Is intel still winning over AMD? AMD were excellent during pentium, then it went to quad cores and they got murdered (I bought the AMD quad cause I assumed they were still better :()

ATi are killing nVidia right now, though, all the cards are running cooler and using less power (I actually bought my ATi card because it uses so much less energy than the equivalent nVidia)
Intel is killing AMD untill Bulldozer comes out and even then Intel might be a better option, and I would say Amd is about the same as Nvidia, some might prefer AMD since they are cooler and a bit cheaper and some prefer Nvidia for the performance and 3d, cuda and physx
 

Baneat

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Tubez said:
Baneat said:
Jesus Phish said:
Competition is healthy and all, but I couldn't give a fiddlers which one of them has the current fastest graphics card at the moment. I'd never spend that kind of money on a single piece of hardware for a computer, it's beyond the scope of what I need my computer to do.

The one reason I've stuck with Nvidia throughout the years is because I've never (Me, personally, this person here) have had an issue or problem with their hardware or drivers. I have had problems with ATI cards in other machines.
It's more of a space race e-peen thing, I wouldn't be suprised if developing these top-tier cards actually lost them money in sales(Consider the Veyron), but being the company with the highest performing graphics card is enough to justify trying it.

Is intel still winning over AMD? AMD were excellent during pentium, then it went to quad cores and they got murdered (I bought the AMD quad cause I assumed they were still better :()

ATi are killing nVidia right now, though, all the cards are running cooler and using less power (I actually bought my ATi card because it uses so much less energy than the equivalent nVidia)
Intel is killing AMD untill Bulldozer comes out and even then Intel might be a better option, and I would say Amd is about the same as Nvidia, some might prefer AMD since they are cooler and a bit cheaper and some prefer Nvidia for the performance and 3d, cuda and physx
When I was buying my card, no matter what scale I was on (enthusiast up to high end), I was seeing consistent better results on ATi cards no matter how high up I went (and now, it goes to the limit as you see). All nVidia has that might interest me is PhysX, and for something so rarely used I don't give it much consideration (wow batman: AA has a better cape animation).

Now, there was something stupid like a 100W difference in power consumption between my card and nVidia's offering at gaming-load, and slightly higher frames on my ATi card, and cooler too (probably due to the lower power consumption?). 100W for a few hours a day, for at least 2 years till I buy a new card's probably a decent sum saved.
 

MrTub

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Baneat said:
Tubez said:
Baneat said:
Jesus Phish said:
Competition is healthy and all, but I couldn't give a fiddlers which one of them has the current fastest graphics card at the moment. I'd never spend that kind of money on a single piece of hardware for a computer, it's beyond the scope of what I need my computer to do.

The one reason I've stuck with Nvidia throughout the years is because I've never (Me, personally, this person here) have had an issue or problem with their hardware or drivers. I have had problems with ATI cards in other machines.
It's more of a space race e-peen thing, I wouldn't be suprised if developing these top-tier cards actually lost them money in sales(Consider the Veyron), but being the company with the highest performing graphics card is enough to justify trying it.

Is intel still winning over AMD? AMD were excellent during pentium, then it went to quad cores and they got murdered (I bought the AMD quad cause I assumed they were still better :()

ATi are killing nVidia right now, though, all the cards are running cooler and using less power (I actually bought my ATi card because it uses so much less energy than the equivalent nVidia)
Intel is killing AMD untill Bulldozer comes out and even then Intel might be a better option, and I would say Amd is about the same as Nvidia, some might prefer AMD since they are cooler and a bit cheaper and some prefer Nvidia for the performance and 3d, cuda and physx
When I was buying my card, no matter what scale I was on (enthusiast up to high end), I was seeing consistent better results on ATi cards no matter how high up I went (and now, it goes to the limit as you see). All nVidia has that might interest me is PhysX, and for something so rarely used I don't give it much consideration (wow batman: AA has a better cape animation).

Now, there was something stupid like a 100W difference in power consumption between my card and nVidia's offering at gaming-load, and slightly higher frames on my ATi card, and cooler too (probably due to the lower power consumption?). 100W for a few hours a day, for at least 2 years till I buy a new card's probably a decent sum saved.
define better results please.
 

KalosCast

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I'm sure these benchmarks will be very helpful three years from now when these cards are in my budget range
 

samsonguy920

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Tethalaki said:
samsonguy920 said:
And here I thought AMD just made cpu's in competition with Intel. Makes me wonder where ATI stands in all this.
Guess I'm just behind on video cards.
AMD bought out ATi a couple years ago.

As of mid/late last year they stopped branding the graphics cards "ATi" and instead moved to straight "AMD" branding.
Thanks for the info good sir. If knowledge is power, then you have given me a can of spinach.
ThongBonerstorm said:
HankMan said:
Who ever wins...
We also win! =)
That's pretty much it. nothing drives development like some good competition.
Ditto
RhombusHatesYou said:
Tethalaki said:
AMD bought out ATi a couple years ago.
Which is, complete coincidence (sarc), around the same time as ATI drivers stopped being such stinking piles of shit.
I can concur about the drivers being a pain. I had decided to try ATI when going for my next card, and it worked fine, but the drivers were a complete pain in the butt to acquire and install. Maybe for my next I will try AMD, although Nvidia has been doing well for me. But I am not too greedy for Awesome Spectacular Jizztastic graphics. Just as long as I get decent framerates for my games, I'm content.
 

PeregrineFalcon

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Emptor said:
Kalezian said:
fucking awesome.....


I use both nVidia and AMD, and I honestly don't see much of a difference between the two other than pricing...

but to have one call the other out to show if it is faster... that takes balls..... probably made from some sort of metal....
A metal that is possibly brass?
I think steel would be better.

BALLSBALLSBALLSBALLSBALLSBALLSBALLSBALLSBALLSBALLSBALLSBALLS

OF STEEL
 

Baneat

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Jul 18, 2008
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Tubez said:
Baneat said:
Tubez said:
Baneat said:
Jesus Phish said:
Competition is healthy and all, but I couldn't give a fiddlers which one of them has the current fastest graphics card at the moment. I'd never spend that kind of money on a single piece of hardware for a computer, it's beyond the scope of what I need my computer to do.

The one reason I've stuck with Nvidia throughout the years is because I've never (Me, personally, this person here) have had an issue or problem with their hardware or drivers. I have had problems with ATI cards in other machines.
It's more of a space race e-peen thing, I wouldn't be suprised if developing these top-tier cards actually lost them money in sales(Consider the Veyron), but being the company with the highest performing graphics card is enough to justify trying it.

Is intel still winning over AMD? AMD were excellent during pentium, then it went to quad cores and they got murdered (I bought the AMD quad cause I assumed they were still better :()

ATi are killing nVidia right now, though, all the cards are running cooler and using less power (I actually bought my ATi card because it uses so much less energy than the equivalent nVidia)
Intel is killing AMD untill Bulldozer comes out and even then Intel might be a better option, and I would say Amd is about the same as Nvidia, some might prefer AMD since they are cooler and a bit cheaper and some prefer Nvidia for the performance and 3d, cuda and physx
When I was buying my card, no matter what scale I was on (enthusiast up to high end), I was seeing consistent better results on ATi cards no matter how high up I went (and now, it goes to the limit as you see). All nVidia has that might interest me is PhysX, and for something so rarely used I don't give it much consideration (wow batman: AA has a better cape animation).

Now, there was something stupid like a 100W difference in power consumption between my card and nVidia's offering at gaming-load, and slightly higher frames on my ATi card, and cooler too (probably due to the lower power consumption?). 100W for a few hours a day, for at least 2 years till I buy a new card's probably a decent sum saved.
define better results please.
Simple - Higher frame-rates on the games that I play on the resolution that I play at
 

MrTub

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Baneat said:
Simple - Higher frame-rates on the games that I play on the resolution that I play at
well then i suggest that you go and read a couple of benchmarks cause nvidia have been outperforming AMd since gtx 400 serie (single gpu cards) i would Link some but i am using My iPhone atm
 

Baneat

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Tubez said:
Baneat said:
Simple - Higher frame-rates on the games that I play on the resolution that I play at
well then i suggest that you go and read a couple of benchmarks cause nvidia have been outperforming AMd since gtx 400 serie (single gpu cards) i would Link some but i am using My iPhone atm
Bear in mind I was looking at price-price not release-release, basically I said, if I have x to spend who provides the better card at that price point? then I picked my price point (£125) and got a 5850
 

EvolutionKills

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Ultratwinkie said:
Exactly. A lot of companies RELY on ONE franchise and try to milk it every year. That doesn't work very well. A market needs variety, or it stagnates. Each generation game costs go up. ONLY 10% of the console developers make money, and those are the big dogs of gaming like Activision and EA. The rest either get debt or low returns. If its doesn't have a reputation from either the company or the franchise, it gets canned because it's too big of a risk. Even the indie scene in console gaming is a disaster, as profits are low compared to PC gaming.

Console gaming isn't where the money is at anymore, it's casual games now as Nintendo has proven. Next generation is feared to be the apocalypse of console gaming. Why? the costs are going up, as this is PC gaming's ability now:


All of this was created using current tech like the Nvidia GTA 590, and the Intel I-9 (coming soon).

http://playstationlifestyle.net/2011/02/07/bioshock-creator-no-new-consoles-please/

I got plenty of sources, but posting one is easier than tracking all of them down.

Once again, I'd love to see the sources for where you are pulling these numbers and statistics from. All you have is a link to 2 quotes from 1 developer lamenting the possible rise in the cost of games if they jumped to the next generation.

Common sense dictates that more than '10%' of console developers make money, or else nobody would be funding them. Flip side is, that those '10%' make so much more that they cover the loses from the other 90%, which still seems a bit extreme without hard data backing it up. The industry is making money, people are being paid, product is being delivered. Activision thought that their money was best spent on making the 360 version of Black Ops awesome, the other two platforms be damned. They wouldn't have done that unless they thought they were getting the biggest bang for their buck. Say what you will about Activision's corporate culture and attitude, but they know how to make money (and keep their investors happy at least).


Also, EA and Activision aren't developers, they're publishers. Bioware and Treyarch are developers, that are owned and have their games published by EA and Activision respectively.
 

EvolutionKills

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Ultratwinkie said:
I made this post in response to someone who called my "consoles are dying" theory bullshit. He didn't respond. It even spawned a thread for a while. I think its still valid here. AAA games going the way of the dinosaur don't help, as AAA games are the only games that make a profit now.

Thanks for re-posting that, it made for a good read. It all makes a lot of sense, and I'm curious as to where the industry will go next. While AAA development will continue to rise, I hope they find a way to offset it. My guess would be that (hopefully) the next generation of console hardware is more similar to PC architecture (no 9 CPU Cell processor setup Sony). With a simpler and more unified architecture, you drop overall development costs on multi-platform titles. This would help you reach a larger audience with less money.


My next bet is on the increasing use of middleware (including cross over with the film industry) and procedural content creation. Just look at SpeedTree, they're behind a middleware technology that handles foliage creation. It's been used in Oblivion, Resistance: Fall of Man, Batman: Arkham Asylum, Fallout 3, Gears of War 2, Crackdown, Infamous, and even James Cameron's AVATAR. That save develops time and money from creating all of their own foliage art assets, and leaves it up to a dedicated group of guys who are really good at making digital trees. I could see middleware develops sprout up for procedural animation, real world vehicles, architecture, hair, clothing, guns, procedural voice, etc.


Middlware already exists for physics (Havok), limited procedural animation (Euphoria), and foliage (SpeedTree). Hopefully game engines will become more compartmentalized, allowing develops to select which assets and piece they need for a given project, pull them off the shelf and get down to content creation.


Still, I get the importance of AAA development. New tech would cause developers to spend more money to reach AAA status. Yeah, there isn't money to be made on A or AA games that much, unless they're a niche product. If all the games are $60, I'm going for the one with the best value (that one of the problems right there, we need more than just a $50-60 price point). This ends up becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. Only AAA titles make money, so we only make AAA titles, which cost more money, which lead to fewer releases, which leads to more competition in the AAA space, etc...


I can't help but wonder if they released solid fun to play games that didn't push graphical limits, if they could make more money with a lower price point. I'd love to see more examples like XBLA 'Castle Crashers', created with a handful of develops for little money. It was cheap, and a ton of fun, and sold relatively well. It's not like you can't play these games on consoles. Why haven't they made an HD version of 'Angry Birds' for XBLA and PSN? Give it leader boards, achievement/tropies, and some sort of mulitplayer (local/party/online), and I bet you'd have a financial success. The market for videogames is expanding, but the core demographic isn't growing that fast. You'r mom might be playing games now, but good money says she's more interested in Bejeweled than Gears of War (and if EA is to be believed, most definitely not Dead Space 2).


I understand that core AAA console games are costly, but it's a shame that the industry is so focused on these games. Not every AAA game need to be bumped/normal/specular mapped and vomiting bloom lighting into your face to be successful. AAA games are more than the next big shooter or GTA clone. I want more variety in my games industry, and we're not going to get it if everyone spends all of their money chasing the same golden ring of graphical photo realism. You can still watch cartoons on your 1080i 3D enabled 52' widescreen TV, not everything need to be James Cameron's Avatar. Not every car has to be the 2.6 second 0-60mph, $2 million dollar Bugatti Veyron, because people still want/need Dodge Caravans, Honda Civics, and Ford F-150s. I still enjoy my cartoons, I wish more developers and publishers felt the same.
 

Emptor

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Mar 21, 2009
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PeregrineFalcon said:
Emptor said:
Kalezian said:
fucking awesome.....


I use both nVidia and AMD, and I honestly don't see much of a difference between the two other than pricing...

but to have one call the other out to show if it is faster... that takes balls..... probably made from some sort of metal....
A metal that is possibly brass?
I think steel would be better.

BALLSBALLSBALLSBALLSBALLSBALLSBALLSBALLSBALLSBALLSBALLSBALLS

OF STEEL
Or you could exchange those for these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IjgZGhHrYY