AMD to nVidia: Put Up or Shut Up

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cerebus23

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I think the fastest has always been a bit dodgy considering some games ran a hair better on nividia cards than they did ati cards even tho on paper and in benchmarks ati should have been faster, now some games are more tuned for one video card over the other, sometimes the drivers just are not up to snuff from one side or the other, lets face it both sides have spotty drivers nvidia have diaabled fans in one driver update and melted video cards oops, ati have regular spotty driver updates where games do not work at all, and both have issues with sli and xfire not having proper profiles for games releases, making sli and xfire an expensive proposition that may or may not be supported for x y z game any time soon.

physics is a gimmic, cup used to run physics stuff just fine, and physics should be able to be run of dual and quad and hex and octa core cps np with room to spare, but since nvidia snapped up physix now games have to use their cards if they want certain branding nvidia approved or whatever stamps nvidia wants to put on a game. arma2 is a game that does physics just fine using cpu course it is also a game that need a supercomputer to max it out.

really is there much point in having "the fastest" other than the 3p33n flogging? there are not many games that push the bounds of gfx anymore, even crysis 2 runs fine on a single modest gpu maxed out. unless your are pushing 3 monitors at crazy high resolutions there is probably not much of a difference you are going to see in your fps for many games and even if you get the fastest vs the 2nd fastest the difference might be a frame or two overall.

would be nice if these guys stopped sniping and just focused on making the best cards at the best value they can. who cares what is the abosolute fastest if for 600 bucks you are getitng a handful of frames more than a vastly cheaper card.
 

MrTub

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Wolfram01 said:
Tubez said:
Im sorry but Pci express at x8 is not bottlenecking anything. The difference from running two gtx 580 in sli with x8 x8 and x16 x16 is about 1-2% which I wouldnt call bottleneck.
Nope. Sometimes it's less prevalent, and at high res it's usually not so bad, however:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pcie-geforce-gtx-480-x16-x8-x4,2696-9.html

Just image a GPU that's twice as powerful being on 8x.
0.o everyone that I've ever talked to said there was really no difference in using cards in x8x8 compared to x16 x16, thanks for that link!
 

Wolfram23

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Tubez said:
0.o everyone that I've ever talked to said there was really no difference in using cards in x8x8 compared to x16 x16, thanks for that link!
Yeah, well it's not huge, and if you look at the benchmarks when you get up to 2560x1600 resolution the difference is only 1% or so, but at lower resolution when the FPS is higher you can see the bottlenecks simply because enough info can't get to the card, similar to a CPU bottleneck.
 

vf501

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Oct 20, 2008
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Heh, never ever buy the 1st generation of nVidia's latest. They always have heat and stability issues. The only two good cards they have right now is the GTX460 and the GTX580, both have acceptable heat and power usage.

I skipped on the 9800GT, waited for the revised version the GTS250. Skipped on the GTX470 and GTX480, went with the MSI N460GTX Cyclone. Barely hits 60celcius under full load in all games, idles at 34celcius, all in tropical weather and no air conditioning.

The GTX260m (G92b GPU) is also excellent for laptops along with its revised version the GTX360m and the fermi version the GTX460m.

AMD cards have better price to performance though, I've just had less issues with nVidia cards though compared to Raedeon architecture and their drivers.
 

MrTub

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RhombusHatesYou said:
Tubez said:
Yes the 590 is a month newer then the 6990 and I do think Amd "won" that match and it wasnt even surprising considering Fermi loves their watt. But before that 580 was top of the line so I wouldnt really say AMD have been on top for a while...
Until nVidia launched their 400 series chipset they'd been behind ATI/AMD since the 9000 series. Basically nVidia had no answer to the ATI/AMD 4000 series chipsets and to be frank, if it wasn't for the 8800GTX and the 8800 Ultra even the nVidia 8000 series would have run 2nd place to ATI/AMD's 3000 series. Even discounting that, that's several series of 'also ran' chipsets against the 4000 series chipsets.

The nVidia 400 series put them back to parity against ATI/AMD's 5000 series and now it seems that the 500 series had edged out the 6000 series in several places (especially as AMD are taking their sweet time about releasing mid-range chipsets for the series)... To be honest the 6000 series has been something of a disappointment and the changing of the model numbering has been a pain in the cock.
Im not so good with those old cards considering I was quite young and my brothers helped me whenever I had problems with my computer/wanted to buy a new one, but he said that AMD have had been on top for some time which isnt really true since 400/500vs5000/6000 nvidia have always had faster cards (Single gpu cards)
 

Waaghpowa

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Apr 13, 2010
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EvolutionKills said:
This is exactly true, having that extra power wont necessarily make the game run better. I swear Crysis 1 and 2 run better than Black ops did. I as well, refuse to purchase Activision games not only because of the poor work they do on PC ports, but on principle.

OT: It's good to have this competition, maybe people will realize that AMD GPU's are just as good as nvidia.

As for the GTX590's catching fire, I know someone who has one and he's had no trouble. Isolated incidence?
 

SinisterDeath

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Nov 6, 2006
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would be nice if these guys stopped sniping and just focused on making the best cards at the best value they can. who cares what is the abosolute fastest if for 600 bucks you are getitng a handful of frames more than a vastly cheaper card.
they do, they've been doing it for years. They build the best of the best, than they downsize it so its cheaper and less powerful, but sometimes as powerful, or just behind the last generations best.

And they create $600+ video cards, becuase there is a Market for it.

IF there wasn't, They wouldn't make them for the average consumer.

Side note, I just bought an EVGA GTX 460, upgrade from the 9800GTX+.
EVGA 01G-P3-1380-KR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) SSC+ 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
Core Clock 850 MHz (v.s 720 MHz reference)
Shader Clock 1700 Mhz (v.s 1440 MHz reference)
Stream Processors 336 Processor Cores Memory
Effective Memory Clock 3900 MHz (v.s 3600 MHz reference)
I bought it, for 2 reasons.
When I bought the 9800, It was already a 'year old' by then.
I still play Age of Conan (best looking mmorpg still)
Playing Rift.

Going to buy Deus Ex: Human Revolution
And Elderscrolls V: Skyrim
Come late summer/august for PC.

Only bottleneck after GPU upgrade is going to be my Q6600 CPU.
Thankfully we have been getting more and more quad-core support in the last couple years, and as I predicted it has extended my pc's lifespan a bit.
I'd go the i7 or i5 route but that would require a new Mobo and Memory...
 

MrTub

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cerebus23 said:
I think the fastest has always been a bit dodgy considering some games ran a hair better on nividia cards than they did ati cards even tho on paper and in benchmarks ati should have been faster, now some games are more tuned for one video card over the other, sometimes the drivers just are not up to snuff from one side or the other, lets face it both sides have spotty drivers nvidia have diaabled fans in one driver update and melted video cards oops, ati have regular spotty driver updates where games do not work at all, and both have issues with sli and xfire not having proper profiles for games releases, making sli and xfire an expensive proposition that may or may not be supported for x y z game any time soon.

physics is a gimmic, cup used to run physics stuff just fine, and physics should be able to be run of dual and quad and hex and octa core cps np with room to spare, but since nvidia snapped up physix now games have to use their cards if they want certain branding nvidia approved or whatever stamps nvidia wants to put on a game. arma2 is a game that does physics just fine using cpu course it is also a game that need a supercomputer to max it out.

really is there much point in having "the fastest" other than the 3p33n flogging? there are not many games that push the bounds of gfx anymore, even crysis 2 runs fine on a single modest gpu maxed out. unless your are pushing 3 monitors at crazy high resolutions there is probably not much of a difference you are going to see in your fps for many games and even if you get the fastest vs the 2nd fastest the difference might be a frame or two overall.

would be nice if these guys stopped sniping and just focused on making the best cards at the best value they can. who cares what is the abosolute fastest if for 600 bucks you are getitng a handful of frames more than a vastly cheaper card.
In the short time I've been using Sli (Since january) all new games get a sli profile update on day one or even with crysis 2 you got a sli profile just for the demo so they are usually very fast with releasing sli profiles but then again I haven't been using it for so long so I reserve the right to be wrong on this

And 590/6990 is mostly for bragging but some actually need it for Nvidia 3d surround or Amds eyefinity
 

MrTub

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WaaghPowa said:
EvolutionKills said:
This is exactly true, having that extra power wont necessarily make the game run better. I swear Crysis 1 and 2 run better than Black ops did. I as well, refuse to purchase Activision games not only because of the poor work they do on PC ports, but on principle.

OT: It's good to have this competition, maybe people will realize that AMD GPU's are just as good as nvidia.

As for the GTX590's catching fire, I know someone who has one and he's had no trouble. Isolated incidence?
Old drivers that did not have surge protection(dunno if that is the right name) enabled so if you raise the volt for the card there was quite a good chance it will be fireworks.
 

MrTub

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Wolfram01 said:
Tubez said:
0.o everyone that I've ever talked to said there was really no difference in using cards in x8x8 compared to x16 x16, thanks for that link!
Yeah, well it's not huge, and if you look at the benchmarks when you get up to 2560x1600 resolution the difference is only 1% or so, but at lower resolution when the FPS is higher you can see the bottlenecks simply because enough info can't get to the card, similar to a CPU bottleneck.
ah, awesome! I use a higher resolution so I was starting to wounder if I should have bought a mobo with x16x16
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Tubez said:
Im not so good with those old cards considering I was quite young and my brothers helped me whenever I had problems with my computer/wanted to buy a new one, but he said that AMD have had been on top for some time which isnt really true since 400/500vs5000/6000 nvidia have always had faster cards (Single gpu cards)
Hey! Those cards aren't that old... If I dug in my parts box I could dig out a GeForce 2 and a Blade 3D... and if that's not old enough, a Hercules monochrome display adaptor card.

One thing is, even when nVidia cards have been faster I've never considered them worth the typical price difference there is between them and similar AMD card. 25-100+% price increase for a 5-10% performance increase? That's pretty much dropping below my 'acceptable' threshold for diminishing returns.
 

Sprinal

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Jan 27, 2010
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I say that it does not matter.

And I also say that this was similar to when Porche tested a Nissan...
 

Buizel91

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Aug 25, 2008
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therandombear said:


Sums it up I guess.

Now to wait and see who runs home crying.
Dude (or dudess...cba to check profile) That is one awesome Picture and you deserve a cookie for showing me it!


OT: this is nice to see, some nice rivalry, can easily be healthy for both competitors.

It's a nice change from the common Sony and Microsoft statements such as "your not as good as us go away bla bla bla"
 

RhombusHatesYou

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arc1991 said:
It's a nice change from the common Sony and Microsoft statements such as "your not as good as us go away bla bla bla"
Well they can't throw raw performance numbers and hardware specs at each other or their own fanboys would start calling them PC Elitists.
 

MrTub

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RhombusHatesYou said:
Tubez said:
Im not so good with those old cards considering I was quite young and my brothers helped me whenever I had problems with my computer/wanted to buy a new one, but he said that AMD have had been on top for some time which isnt really true since 400/500vs5000/6000 nvidia have always had faster cards (Single gpu cards)
Hey! Those cards aren't that old... If I dug in my parts box I could dig out a GeForce 2 and a Blade 3D... and if that's not old enough, a Hercules monochrome display adaptor card.

One thing is, even when nVidia cards have been faster I've never considered them worth the typical price difference there is between them and similar AMD card. 25-100+% price increase for a 5-10% performance increase? That's pretty much dropping below my 'acceptable' threshold for diminishing returns.
well I can dig up a old laptop with something around 64mb ram =P but sadly no graphic cards

and top of the line is the best performing card ;) not the cheapest second best performing =)

I bought my cards simply cause I did not think the 5000 serie was anything to have if you compared to a 480 but I would have gladly bought something from the 9000 serie
 

Jennacide

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I honestly don't care either way, because I will remain with nVidia for 2 reasons. 1) Better support of putting out new drivers when a new game doesn't work with the current ones as well as it should. and 2) PhysX is awesome.

Now I know the second one may be petty, and AMD cards can do PhysX too, they just do it's fucking horribly. And some will claim that's because nVidia knowingly made it work specifically for their hardware, but I really fail to see how that is "wrong" or "crooked" in any way.
 

Fingerthing

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Mar 19, 2010
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I fucking hate AMD. Down to the bone, like really. I can't spend a day in Team Fortress 2 without it crashing on me. Apparently the problem has been around for a year now and AMD has still not gotten of there lazy arses and fixed it. I have looked around in forums and solution vary from OS to RAM to CPU to overheating to... Quite simply i'm going to buy an Nvidia card.