Amercian arrested for Child Porn by Canadian customs who found manga on his computer.

[Tim_Buoy]

From here: http://cbldf.org/homepage/cbldf-forms-coalition-to-defend-american-comics-reader-facing-criminal-charges-in-canada/

Comic book legal defence fund says it will help with the defence of an American programmer who Canadian customs believed had child porn on his various devices. He had no photo's only manga. He has been charged with possession and intent to import child porn to Canada.

The problem is I don't know any country now that will not punish you if they believe you are in possession of 'certain' drawings of minors. Even the US with their free speech laws will convict for possession of this material, so I don't know how successful they will be. Or even if that many people would want them to be successful....

what im getting from this is hes being charged with having child porn and importing it to canada but in the articles it doesnt actually say what he had is it just an echhi manga is it hentai or is it like bleach where one of the characters likes to go naked everyonce and a while

 

[Jonluw]

LOOK OUT THIS DRAWING IS OFF A NINE YEAR OLD GIRL AND WHERE ARE HIS CLOTHES TE NINE YEAR OLD IS NAKED YOU PORNOGRAPHER HOW DARE YOU ABUSE THE POOR STICK MANN?!?!?!11

You monster!
All of your kind should be put in jail!

Sigh. I remember conducting a poll on this site a while back. I asked whether admitted paedophiles who had never touched a child, and had no intent to do so in the future should be put in jail, institutionalized, forced to receive psychological help, or left to live their lives as human being equal to the rest of us.
The results of the poll were depressing.

It's ok we can all discuss it again when we're in jail for doing all sorts of thought crimes to the genitals of this poor nine year old hermaphrodite. Lord knows what they'll do if we continue to commit thought crimes with improvised line making devices or, god forbid, ORAL TRADITION!

Wait, are erotic short-stories featuring children but no images illegal too?
It just hit me that I read an erotic short-story once where the age of the characters was not specified. I might be a criminal without knowing it!

 

[JoJo]

You're right that sravankb has badly worded the phrase, I'll rephrase it to what I think he meant:

"If there are no possible victims for an activity, then it shouldn't be a crime."

Since fictional characters aren't sentient as far as I know, then cartoon porn causes no victims. As a writer I've killed off characters including children in my work before, should I arrested for murder or producing snuff?

Ah but there is a possibility for harm. Who knows mabey looking at drawn pictures of child porn is just the first step. I mean after that mabey the guy will go for actual photos and when he gets bored he will go out and rape some children. See my point? It is illegal for a similar reason that speeding or driving to slow is illegal. They both have the potential to cause harm.

That argument could be used to justify banning just about anything though. Watch:

1) Who knows maybe driving a car is just the first step. I mean after that maybe the guy will go for speeding and when he gets bored he will go out and run over some children.

2) Who knows maybe owning a gun for shooting wooden targets is just the first step. I mean after that maybe the guy will go for actual animals and when he gets bored he will go out and shoot some children.

3) Who knows maybe playing violent video games is just the first step. I mean after that maybe the guy will go for actual snuff films and when he gets bored he will go out and murder some children.

The person does end up watching real child abuse, then we already have laws against that and then they deserve the full force of the law upon them. However if we're going to ban things that might lead people to dangerous activity we might as well ban all media containing any violence, all vehicles, all sharp odjects...

 

[Raven_Operative]

Wait so a guy was arrested for having CP, but all he had was some manga?

There is manga porn... and there is also manga child porn.

 

[VelvetHorror]

All information I'm finding is that a man was in possession of manga, and is being charged with having child pornography.

We don't know which manga it is, the specific pages in question that sparked a concern that it was pornographic, and the approximate age of the character in the manga in question.

Even if the age of the character was, for example, 15; manga artists often give a person as being a certain age, but the body of an adult. This is to make the character seem more mature and strong while still part of the reader demographic, allowing for readers to relate or to allow for specific settings for the manga to take place (Ex: High School).

Manga isn't the only medium that does this. Many movies use actors that are in their 20's but are somehow a high school student. Series do this as well. If you ever watched Power Rangers, you know this all too well. I mean, how many of those guys look like they're actually high school age.

If the manga that the man has is something like Mahou Sensei Negima, where there are panty flashes and sexualization of school girls; it might be difficult to argue that case as not child pornographic in court. While readers might just recognize it as a funny series with some panty flashes and romance drama, a court might not see that.

But if the manga is indeed a hentai manga where it has a clearly underage girl having sex, whether the sex is consensual or not; then I believe it should be viewed as being child pornography. However, since it isn't taking advantage of an actual child, I believe sentencing should be lessened. Having possession of child pornography on your record would completely ruin someone's life.

 

[TheLaofKazi]

You monster!
All of your kind should be put in jail!

Sigh. I remember conducting a poll on this site a while back. I asked whether admitted paedophiles who had never touched a child, and had no intent to do so in the future should be put in jail, institutionalized, forced to receive psychological help, or left to live their lives as human being equal to the rest of us.
The results of the poll were depressing.

That's sad.

You know, I would love to walk into a mall and just take whatever I want, or to be able to have sex with whoever I want, but I don't, because I feel doing so would be immoral and would hurt other people, and I don't want to do that. The same goes for pedophiles.

Just because the desire is there doesn't mean it will be acted upon, most people have a conscious.

 

[BlindTom]

LOOK OUT THIS DRAWING IS OFF A NINE YEAR OLD GIRL AND WHERE ARE HIS CLOTHES TE NINE YEAR OLD IS NAKED YOU PORNOGRAPHER HOW DARE YOU ABUSE THE POOR STICK MANN?!?!?!11

You monster!
All of your kind should be put in jail!

Sigh. I remember conducting a poll on this site a while back. I asked whether admitted paedophiles who had never touched a child, and had no intent to do so in the future should be put in jail, institutionalized, forced to receive psychological help, or left to live their lives as human being equal to the rest of us.
The results of the poll were depressing.

It's ok we can all discuss it again when we're in jail for doing all sorts of thought crimes to the genitals of this poor nine year old hermaphrodite. Lord knows what they'll do if we continue to commit thought crimes with improvised line making devices or, god forbid, ORAL TRADITION!

Wait, are erotic short-stories featuring children but no images illegal too?
It just hit me that I read an erotic short-story once where the age of the characters was not specified. I might be a criminal without knowing it!

I actually don't know if the lines have to be shaped like people or not in order to count as thoughtcrime. I know that if you use text to specify that the images you are drawing are 18 years old then the court can ignore it and say that the things you drew are actually five years old because they thought about five year olds when they saw the images, presumably arresting themselves immediately afterwards. I suppose that anyone who writes anything down about sex is probably raping children in their minds and anyone who reads it will probably go on to rape children.

 

[BlindTom]

I just looked at my shelf and saw a copy of Nabokov's Lolita. Should I turn myself in or go out in a blaze of glory?

 

[LittlePineWeasel]

uber-snip for stupidity and banality of argument.

That's cute and all but its window dressing, straw-man, spurious.

Again, all devised to distract from the actual crux of the issue, which is that its plain vile to fantasize about underage children, regardless of its method of depiction.

Its a little bit creepy how many escapists here are seemingly pretty ok with it. Instead of recognizing as the defect of the mind that it is.

 

[Jonluw]

That's sad.

To make it better, quite a few believed capital punishment to be appropriate.

[If]The person does end up watching real child abuse, then we already have laws against that and then they deserve the full force of the law upon them. However if we're going to ban things that might lead people to dangerous activity we might as well ban all media containing any violence, all vehicles, all sharp odjects...

As much as I hate making content-less posts like the following, I feel this needs to be said: Quoted for truth.

I'd love to make some meaningful discussion, but from what I've experienced in the times I've had this debate, most of the people who oppose lolicon seem to have extreme opinions and an absolute refusal to listen to arguments, sometimes born from their own experience with abuse.

I actually don't know if the lines have to be shaped like people or not in order to count as thoughtcrime. I know that if you use text to specify that the images you are drawing are 18 years old then the court can ignore it and say that the things you drew are actually five years old because they thought about five year olds when they saw the images, presumably arresting themselves immediately afterwards. I suppose that anyone who writes anything down about sex is probably raping children in their minds and anyone who reads it will probably go on to rape children.

Ah, that makes sense. Boy, how I hate mind-rape and mind-rapists.

 

[UbarElite]

If there are no victims for an activity, then it isn't a crime. End of discussion.

If I am the only one who agrees with this, then seconded.

If others agree as well, then thirded, fourthed, or whatever number we are on.

 

[Jinx_Dragon]

How did they find the stuff on his laptop, that means that the customs guy had to take it, turn it on and hunt through all his files, and he did this just on a whim? I never really fly internationally but doesn't that seem a bit excessive?

US customs did that to me the first time I crossed from Canada into the US. I remembered afterwards that I had a LOT of porn on a memory stick, that they copied into their databases. The vast majority of it was homosexual in nature, which probably explains why the guy gave me such a disgusted look and then tried to find anything he could to keep me out of the country. Without any reason to deny me, and knowing his sup would fire his arse if I escalated over gay porn because it would be a ACLU wet dream, he had to let me through.

The funny part is I was re-entering the US having already left it to visit friends within Canada.

So my advice: Carry the most filthy porn you can find, that is legal, across the border at all times! Lots of it too, cause they have to store everything they find when they confiscate your computer for such checks. Maybe we can get the US government into the largest disposition of porn in the world?

 

[LittlePineWeasel]

If there are no victims for an activity, then it isn't a crime. End of discussion.

If I am the only one who agrees with this, then seconded.

If others agree as well, then thirded, fourthed, or whatever number we are on.

I will never understand this fatuous defense of this shit. Something doesn't have to be a crime for it to be wrong and unacceptable.

 

[The Great Purtabo]

In Canada, Loli is defined as CP. This means that one can be arrested for this. It's happened several times, in fact. This is just another example of the "learn the laws of other places before you go, and don't bring porn with you" rule.

Stupid guy, but again, he shouldn't have been arrested, the hentai should have been erased/destroyed, he educated and sent on his way; as the laws dictate such

This is why I never leave America; fear of being prosecuted for child pornography.

0.0.... well don't bring it with you then >.> .....

 

[LittlePineWeasel]

How did they find the stuff on his laptop, that means that the customs guy had to take it, turn it on and hunt through all his files, and he did this just on a whim? I never really fly internationally but doesn't that seem a bit excessive?

US customs did that to me the first time I crossed from Canada into the US. I remembered afterwards that I had a LOT of porn on a memory stick, that they copied into their databases. The vast majority of it was homosexual in nature, which probably explains why the guy gave me such a disgusted look and then tried to find anything he could to keep me out of the country. Without any reason to deny me, and knowing his sup would fire his arse if I escalated over gay porn because it would be a ACLU wet dream, he had to let me through.

The funny part is I was re-entering the US having already left it to visit friends within Canada.

So my advice: Carry the most filthy porn you can find, that is legal, across the border at all times! Lots of it too, cause they have to store everything they find when they confiscate your computer for such checks. Maybe we can get the US government into the largest disposition of porn in the world?

wow.... did you ever project upon that guy. Did it ever occur to you that you were being searched not so much because your gay....cause honestly who cares about that anymore, and more that it was his job?? I don't want him to search less carefully and possibly miss something that shouldnt be coming into the country just to avoid setting off your gay hypersensitivity.

And if you escalated how on earth would you go about proving his motivations?? lol.

Sit down pheonix wright. I object rofl.

Additionally nothing about your post is funny, and this advice that you give at end of post is second dumbest thing I've read on escapist today.

 

[UbarElite]

If there are no victims for an activity, then it isn't a crime. End of discussion.

If I am the only one who agrees with this, then seconded.

If others agree as well, then thirded, fourthed, or whatever number we are on.

I will never understand this fatuous defense of this shit. Something doesn't have to be a crime for it to be wrong and unacceptable.

Sorry for not being clear, I meant crime in a philosophical sense, not in an illegal sense. My point being that I see nothing wrong with carrying such images, even if it is full on animated porn.

Real images are different, I stress. As sravankb said, there is no victim to this crime. This is as bad as having a beer in your home. It is an invasion of privacy, and I bet if I knew more about you I could find something that you do/have that someone would find offensive enough to have you arrested for, even when it was not hurting anybody.

 

[Jabberwock xeno]

In Canada, Loli is defined as CP. This means that one can be arrested for this. It's happened several times, in fact. This is just another example of the "learn the laws of other places before you go, and don't bring porn with you" rule.

Not just Cananda, It's that way here in the US too.

 

[JoJo]

That argument could be used to justify banning just about anything though. Watch:

1) Who knows maybe driving a car is just the first step. I mean after that maybe the guy will go for speeding and when he gets bored he will go out and run over some children.

2) Who knows maybe owning a gun for shooting wooden targets is just the first step. I mean after that maybe the guy will go for actual animals and when he gets bored he will go out and shoot some children.

3) Who knows maybe playing violent video games is just the first step. I mean after that maybe the guy will go for actual snuff films and when he gets bored he will go out and murder some children.

The person does end up watching real child abuse, then we already have laws against that and then they deserve the full force of the law upon them. However if we're going to ban things that might lead people to dangerous activity we might as well ban all media containing any violence, all vehicles, all sharp odjects...

Except your examples are completely rediculous and have nothing at all to do with children. Saying somebody who jacks off to child porn might one day go out and rape a child is not as big a leap as saying if you own a gun you will end up shooting children.


I am honestly kind of freaked out at the large number of people in here who support child porn.

To me both the killing and the rape of a child seem hugely morally wrong, I find it worrying if you don't find that so. A normal stable person, regardless of whether they are attracted to children or not, would never molest as think of it logically, a few minutes of pleasure in exchange for risking putting your ass into jail for a long time, being branded a predator for life and hurting a child in one of worst ways imaginable. The fact is, only a person who is deeply unstable or immoral would ever commit such a crime and they would do it anyway whether or not a few icky drawings were around.

As for your second comment, really? Now it just sounds like you're trying to shut down discussion, you know full well that we are just as against child abuse as you are, just we have a different viewpoint on how to reduce it. Of-course lolicon seems disgusting to most of us, I have a 7 year old sister and it creeps me out to think there might be some people who would enjoy it but the fact is these people aren't going to vanish so we might as well reduce real child abuse in any way we can.