Amercian arrested for Child Porn by Canadian customs who found manga on his computer.

[Jonluw]

I read my countrys laws on child porn once, when there was some news about it in the media.

And the problem with all these laws is that they are so freaking vague in describing what is considered child pornography.

But here is where I get so pissed off at these people that gets arrested for posessing manga with characters with their breasts hanging out who happened to be underage (Hell manga has a loot of nude boobs even when its not Hentai, Ranma 1/2 is a good example of this), anywyas what pisses me off is this:

Its a drawn character, the only reason we know the person is under age is because it is written on the page.

Some could argue that the characters LOOK under age, but there are A LOT of real life 18 year old girls which looks like they could be 14, so just "looks to be under age" isn't really good enough now is it?

Actually...
I've read that particular section of Norway's laws as well, and §248a (Or was it 284?) says that if an actor in a porno appears to be under 18, it's considered child porn.

 

[Sixcess]

It all depends what it actually is this guy was holding. Free speech/free expression is not an absolute right. In the abstract perhaps. In the real world, no. Some ideas really aren't worth defending.

I wonder, would the CBLDF be fighting this case if he'd been arrested for carrying, say, comics that were violently anti-semitic and pro-Nazi into Germany? "Kill the Jews" is only an idea, after all.

 

[Aurgelmir]

I've read that particular section of Norway's laws as well, and §248a (Or was it 284?) says that if an actor in a porno appears to be under 18, it's considered child porn.

True, and that is why I say it is a vague law. "Appears" is such a subjective matter. Although that part of the law refers to an actor, so that part will not cover comics at least.


Also if so many manga are considered child porn Why the hell are shops still allowed to sell said manga!? Shouldn't we stop distribution rather than punishing people for buying legally sold material?

PS: The last part is more of a generalization, and doesn't apply to the guy OP mention, as he was having digital copies on his computer (ergo making it harder to say it was bought or sold) also he was "importing it" to Canada (although that comic is probably on sale there as well)

 

[kasperbbs]

How do you know the age of a drawing? Maybe they were just pretending to be underage? Oh wait! They are not real people so nothing really happened! I really wish people would stop calling hentai manga. If i told somebody that i liked reading 'Vinland saga' manga they would assume that its porn and i'm a pervert.

 

[Turing]

That argument could be used to justify banning just about anything though. Watch:

1) Who knows maybe driving a car is just the first step. I mean after that maybe the guy will go for speeding and when he gets bored he will go out and run over some children.

2) Who knows maybe owning a gun for shooting wooden targets is just the first step. I mean after that maybe the guy will go for actual animals and when he gets bored he will go out and shoot some children.

3) Who knows maybe playing violent video games is just the first step. I mean after that maybe the guy will go for actual snuff films and when he gets bored he will go out and murder some children.

The person does end up watching real child abuse, then we already have laws against that and then they deserve the full force of the law upon them. However if we're going to ban things that might lead people to dangerous activity we might as well ban all media containing any violence, all vehicles, all sharp odjects...

Except your examples are completely rediculous and have nothing at all to do with children. Saying somebody who jacks off to child porn might one day go out and rape a child is not as big a leap as saying if you own a gun you will end up shooting children.


I am honestly kind of freaked out at the large number of people in here who support child porn.

Actually, those are great examples as they follow the exact same logic: If you own X, it will be the first step to do Y.
Also, its not about supporting child pornography which I'm sure we can all agree is gross. Its about supporting people's rights to own and draw comics, even ones with icky content.

 

[Nouw]

It astounds me that everyone is acting as if such manga never existed and suddenly popped up. I would have expected people to have already made their mind up about such things.

As for me? I feel that he shouldn't be arrested. Does Canada have mangas of Dragonball? There, you found something worse than a silver of white from beneath a teen's skirt.
[sub]Heh Goku's dick.[/sub]

EDIT:Paedophile =/=Child Molester. So what if he has sexual urges towards children? He's keeping it to himself and possibly reading something fictious, where no damage to anyone is done, to satisfy his urges. And if it is such a big problem, perhaps he should consult a psychiatrist because paedophilia is categorized as a mental illness.

 

[TheKed]

1. I know that you can be jailed in Canada for it. I made the point that one shouldn't be.
2. Once again, I do not care if the majority does not like something. The majority still thinks drugs, gay marriage, and abortion should be illegal. Back in the day, the majority believed it was ok to keep slaves.
Just because the majority or even if "society" doesn't like it, doesn't mean it should be legal. Law SHOULD be based on what's right (I know right can be subjective. It's just the easiest way of saying what is correct, what doesn't actually harm anyone), rather than what's likeable or not. So even though I would be hard-pressed to find Canadians that don't like the seatbelt laws, I do not care. There still shouldn't be laws in place forcing you to do something that is only protecting yourself. I'm not forced to walk around with a helmet, but some soccer moms would love to force all of society to be safe and do that. Yeah, there are people that crazy.
And while we're at it, can we stop talking about just Canada and widen our scope to law and morality and ethics in general? I'm not informed about Canadian law, but I do believe that law should be uniform. That is, don't mess with someone else's day. If you do, get punished. Otherwise, do what you will.
"Not messing with someone else's day" takes on a lot.

No.

You should care about what the majority likes and doesn't like. Why? Well they're the ones that make the laws. You know, those ones that fine you when you don't wear your seatbelts, that throw you in jail when you have drawings of underaged kids in graphic sexual depictions.

Every law that gets passed is, believe it or not, is what somebody somewhere thinks is right. Their right is not necessarily your right. Not what's likeable - to you or them. Politicians don't sit around drafting ridiculous bills for laughs.

Seatbelt laws don't exist solely for the protection of the wearer, either, just so we're clear. There is corollory harm done by someone not wearing a seatbelt, at least in Canada. Who pays for the medical treatment of the injured driver? Everyone, distributed evenly over the populace through the healthcare system. The difference between a few broken ribs and a concussion versus, say, a shattered spine and permanent paralysis doesn't seem much for one person spread over 30-odd-million, but if you multiply that by the number of collisions in a year it can add up pretty quick.

Unless you're secretly leader of an underground cell of revolutionaries poised to overthrow the government (sorry, you said you wanted to stop talking about just Canada - the World, then) perhaps you should consider an alternative. Soccer moms and do-gooders get silly laws like that (i refer more to the seatbelt laws than the child porn laws, naturally) passed because they do something you don't: they go out there and get them made. The gather people, they hold rallies, they harrass government bodies. Instead of raging at the system, perhaps you would gain more satisfaction by using the system.

Unless you really are the leader of an underground resistance movement. In which case, good luck with that.

 

[Jonluw]

I've read that particular section of Norway's laws as well, and §248a (Or was it 284?) says that if an actor in a porno appears to be under 18, it's considered child porn.

True, and that is why I say it is a vague law. "Appears" is such a subjective matter. Although that part of the law refers to an actor, so that part will not cover comics at least.


Also if so many manga are considered child porn Why the hell are shops still allowed to sell said manga!? Shouldn't we stop distribution rather than punishing people for buying legally sold material?

PS: The last part is more of a generalization, and doesn't apply to the guy OP mention, as he was having digital copies on his computer (ergo making it harder to say it was bought or sold) also he was "importing it" to Canada (although that comic is probably on sale there as well)

I think - percentage-wise - very few mangas are lolicon. And I have never seen any lolicon in my local manga-store.

 

[Aurgelmir]

I've read that particular section of Norway's laws as well, and §248a (Or was it 284?) says that if an actor in a porno appears to be under 18, it's considered child porn.

True, and that is why I say it is a vague law. "Appears" is such a subjective matter. Although that part of the law refers to an actor, so that part will not cover comics at least.


Also if so many manga are considered child porn Why the hell are shops still allowed to sell said manga!? Shouldn't we stop distribution rather than punishing people for buying legally sold material?

PS: The last part is more of a generalization, and doesn't apply to the guy OP mention, as he was having digital copies on his computer (ergo making it harder to say it was bought or sold) also he was "importing it" to Canada (although that comic is probably on sale there as well)

I think - percentage-wise - very few mangas are lolicon. And I have never seen any lolicon in my local manga-store.

It's not just lolicon I refer to. As it seems to me that manga gets singled out quite fast, and there is a lot of racy images in normal mangas too.

 

[Jonluw]

I've read that particular section of Norway's laws as well, and §248a (Or was it 284?) says that if an actor in a porno appears to be under 18, it's considered child porn.

True, and that is why I say it is a vague law. "Appears" is such a subjective matter. Although that part of the law refers to an actor, so that part will not cover comics at least.


Also if so many manga are considered child porn Why the hell are shops still allowed to sell said manga!? Shouldn't we stop distribution rather than punishing people for buying legally sold material?

PS: The last part is more of a generalization, and doesn't apply to the guy OP mention, as he was having digital copies on his computer (ergo making it harder to say it was bought or sold) also he was "importing it" to Canada (although that comic is probably on sale there as well)

I think - percentage-wise - very few mangas are lolicon. And I have never seen any lolicon in my local manga-store.

It's not just lolicon I refer to. As it seems to me that manga gets singled out quite fast, and there is a lot of racy images in normal mangas too.

You're thinking of stuff like Mahou sensei negima where we have panty shots of Evangeline?
That's not porn though, so I think it's protected by the freedom of speech.

 

[Aurgelmir]

I've read that particular section of Norway's laws as well, and §248a (Or was it 284?) says that if an actor in a porno appears to be under 18, it's considered child porn.

True, and that is why I say it is a vague law. "Appears" is such a subjective matter. Although that part of the law refers to an actor, so that part will not cover comics at least.


Also if so many manga are considered child porn Why the hell are shops still allowed to sell said manga!? Shouldn't we stop distribution rather than punishing people for buying legally sold material?

PS: The last part is more of a generalization, and doesn't apply to the guy OP mention, as he was having digital copies on his computer (ergo making it harder to say it was bought or sold) also he was "importing it" to Canada (although that comic is probably on sale there as well)

I think - percentage-wise - very few mangas are lolicon. And I have never seen any lolicon in my local manga-store.

It's not just lolicon I refer to. As it seems to me that manga gets singled out quite fast, and there is a lot of racy images in normal mangas too.

You're thinking of stuff like Mahou sensei negima where we have panty shots of Evangeline?
That's not porn though, so I think it's protected by the freedom of speech.

No Iam thinking of stuff like Ranma 1/2 where several of the femalre characters are topless at one point or the other, or Gunsmith Cats which honestly have a very borderline scene with Minnie May Hopkins and a bloke.
Point is Minnie May is 17 or 18 I think, but she looks 10...

 

[JoJo]

Actually, those are great examples as they follow the exact same logic: If you own X, it will be the first step to do Y.
Also, its not about supporting child pornography which I'm sure we can all agree is gross. Its about supporting people's rights to own and draw comics, even ones with icky content.

Actually a good example does not turn completely random and throw in a 100% unrelated variable at the end.

The violent games example works though, surely by your logic someone playing a violent game where they kill people might lead them to get bored and start killing real people. Sure, there's no evidence that happens but neither is there any evidence that lolicon leads to real rape or porn consumption.

 

[Jonluw]

I've read that particular section of Norway's laws as well, and §248a (Or was it 284?) says that if an actor in a porno appears to be under 18, it's considered child porn.

True, and that is why I say it is a vague law. "Appears" is such a subjective matter. Although that part of the law refers to an actor, so that part will not cover comics at least.


Also if so many manga are considered child porn Why the hell are shops still allowed to sell said manga!? Shouldn't we stop distribution rather than punishing people for buying legally sold material?

PS: The last part is more of a generalization, and doesn't apply to the guy OP mention, as he was having digital copies on his computer (ergo making it harder to say it was bought or sold) also he was "importing it" to Canada (although that comic is probably on sale there as well)

I think - percentage-wise - very few mangas are lolicon. And I have never seen any lolicon in my local manga-store.

It's not just lolicon I refer to. As it seems to me that manga gets singled out quite fast, and there is a lot of racy images in normal mangas too.

You're thinking of stuff like Mahou sensei negima where we have panty shots of Evangeline?
That's not porn though, so I think it's protected by the freedom of speech.

No Iam thinking of stuff like Ranma 1/2 where several of the femalre characters are topless at one point or the other, or Gunsmith Cats which honestly have a very borderline scene with Minnie May Hopkins and a bloke.
Point is Minnie May is 17 or 18 I think, but she looks 10...

Same difference. Those two still aren't porn, and as such are protected under freedom of speech from what I understand.

 

[Aurgelmir]

I've read that particular section of Norway's laws as well, and §248a (Or was it 284?) says that if an actor in a porno appears to be under 18, it's considered child porn.

True, and that is why I say it is a vague law. "Appears" is such a subjective matter. Although that part of the law refers to an actor, so that part will not cover comics at least.


Also if so many manga are considered child porn Why the hell are shops still allowed to sell said manga!? Shouldn't we stop distribution rather than punishing people for buying legally sold material?

PS: The last part is more of a generalization, and doesn't apply to the guy OP mention, as he was having digital copies on his computer (ergo making it harder to say it was bought or sold) also he was "importing it" to Canada (although that comic is probably on sale there as well)

I think - percentage-wise - very few mangas are lolicon. And I have never seen any lolicon in my local manga-store.

It's not just lolicon I refer to. As it seems to me that manga gets singled out quite fast, and there is a lot of racy images in normal mangas too.

You're thinking of stuff like Mahou sensei negima where we have panty shots of Evangeline?
That's not porn though, so I think it's protected by the freedom of speech.

No Iam thinking of stuff like Ranma 1/2 where several of the femalre characters are topless at one point or the other, or Gunsmith Cats which honestly have a very borderline scene with Minnie May Hopkins and a bloke.
Point is Minnie May is 17 or 18 I think, but she looks 10...

Same difference. Those two still aren't porn, and as such are protected under freedom of speech from what I understand.

Not everywhere though

And I agree with you, but as long as people keeps getting arrested for this, then it's a problem.

 

[Jonluw]

I've read that particular section of Norway's laws as well, and §248a (Or was it 284?) says that if an actor in a porno appears to be under 18, it's considered child porn.

True, and that is why I say it is a vague law. "Appears" is such a subjective matter. Although that part of the law refers to an actor, so that part will not cover comics at least.


Also if so many manga are considered child porn Why the hell are shops still allowed to sell said manga!? Shouldn't we stop distribution rather than punishing people for buying legally sold material?

PS: The last part is more of a generalization, and doesn't apply to the guy OP mention, as he was having digital copies on his computer (ergo making it harder to say it was bought or sold) also he was "importing it" to Canada (although that comic is probably on sale there as well)

I think - percentage-wise - very few mangas are lolicon. And I have never seen any lolicon in my local manga-store.

It's not just lolicon I refer to. As it seems to me that manga gets singled out quite fast, and there is a lot of racy images in normal mangas too.

You're thinking of stuff like Mahou sensei negima where we have panty shots of Evangeline?
That's not porn though, so I think it's protected by the freedom of speech.

No Iam thinking of stuff like Ranma 1/2 where several of the femalre characters are topless at one point or the other, or Gunsmith Cats which honestly have a very borderline scene with Minnie May Hopkins and a bloke.
Point is Minnie May is 17 or 18 I think, but she looks 10...

Same difference. Those two still aren't porn, and as such are protected under freedom of speech from what I understand.

Not everywhere though

And I agree with you, but as long as people keeps getting arrested for this, then it's a problem.

And that is why the law should be changed.