American-British Q&A

[Belligerency]

To Americans: when you see a mixed-race person of Afro-Caribbean/White European descent, do you class them as mixed race, or black?

I ask this because as a mixed race person myself, I've noticed that a lot of Americans don't seem to recognise it as an identity in it's own right; they are more likely to class that person according to what they physically resemble the most, i.e. tanned skin and coarse dark hair = black. This is really putting me off moving to America as I'm worried that I'm going to be given a new identity that I can't relate to.

I get what your saying, but at the same time are you not doing the same thing most of the time? When you see a white person do you think "Caucasian" or do you think (in my case) "mostly polish descent with a bit of German in there"?

That isn't a race issue, though. Polish, French, German.. you're still white.

I'm not talking about heritage, I'm talking about race; actual biological differences that are apparent from first glance. I appreciate that heritage might still make people view you in a different way for various reasons, but it's still not quite the same thing.

by that logic then, if i am just white than you are just black, to the average eye. that's how it always will be to just about everyone. Why do all asians look the same? while from another perspective why do all white people look the same?

apples and oranges... But honestly, I know PLENTY of "black" people that are whiter than me and i know plenty of white people that are darker than half the "black" people i know, so really if you come over here you might be in for a shocker or two yourself, because if you are basing it off of apparent first glance looks, then you are going to be second guessing yourself with alot of people over here too then.

You're confusing me a little with the quotations. You say you know white and black people with varying skin tones - but what are you and American society classing them as? To go back to my original question, do you recognise these people as mixed race?

Easiest way I can explain this: If you were describing one of these "black" people to another person, would you describe them as "he's a black guy with.." or "he's a mixed race guy with.."?

If you ask me, America still suffers from its "one drop" rule (i.e., any noticeable Black parentage is enough to get you classify as Black). Increasingly there is greater recognition of mixed-parentage persons identifying themselves as being of mixed-parentage but there are those who don't much buy into the concept. Perhaps surprisingly -- perhaps not -- the greatest pocket of resistance to the concept is found in the Black community.

I think it's just a visual thing, you look black we think you are black. It's just looks.

 

[JDKJ]

To Americans: when you see a mixed-race person of Afro-Caribbean/White European descent, do you class them as mixed race, or black?

I ask this because as a mixed race person myself, I've noticed that a lot of Americans don't seem to recognise it as an identity in it's own right; they are more likely to class that person according to what they physically resemble the most, i.e. tanned skin and coarse dark hair = black. This is really putting me off moving to America as I'm worried that I'm going to be given a new identity that I can't relate to.

Famed African American poet Langston Hughes said "You see, unfortunately, I am not black. There are lots of different kinds of blood in our family. But here in the United States, the word 'Negro' is used to mean anyone who has any Negro blood at all in his veins. In Africa, the word is more pure. It means all Negro, therefore black. I am brown"

In the United States we don't really believe in multiple races for one person. We go off of a "you look it you are it", part of our one-drop rule. Long story.
Back in the day the South had slavery. And on top of kidnapping, murdering and selling the children of their slaves they also raped the female slaves, very frequently. As a result there were a lot of 50/50 kids. These 50/50 kids would not be freed by their white fathers and would stay in servitude. Culturally, black slaves saw these 50/50 children as black since they stayed with their mother and grew up withing the black community, and these 50/50 kids were not seen as white because they did not grow up with their white father and live in their culture (mild speculation on my part). Since race was the justification of slavery, and owner's didn't want to free their profitable and sell able 50/50 offspring the laws were made say that any person with any black ancestry of any percentage (or extremely low in some states) was to be officially recognized as black, and thus a slave. These 50/50 kids might have been mildly resented withing the black slave community at the time (speculation on my part) but then those children would grow up and be raped by their owners or would marry a fellow black or partially black slave, resulting in a child that could have any mix of white and black. When combined with the fact that plantation owners not wanting to admit who their children were, slave mothers not wanting to talk about the father, children being sold away while extremely young and few birth records of slaves means that it is extremely hard for slaves to know their true racial makeup. Long story short, by the time the Civil War was over just about every slave had at least some percentage of white in them, but slaves, white people and the law did not care. When Jim Crow laws began to take effect the old laws about having "one-drop" was used to make sure that people with any percentage of black were discriminated against. If one had even a little bit of black in them they were considered black and were treated as such, legally and culturally by both African Americans and whites.
Notable examples include Frederick Douglas who states in his biography that his master was also his father and as such is 50% white and 50% black. Actually, I take that back, he never had much communication with his mom, who for all I know could have been 80% black 20% white or something else. So there is a chance that Frederick Douglas is more white than black.
Tiger Woods is the most extreme example. He is 1/4 black, 1/8 white (Dutch), 1/8 Native American and 1/2 Asian. So yea, he is twice as Asian as he is black. But since Americans use "you look it you are it" they see that black is his most visible trait and declare him black.
President Obama is another example. He is rare in that we know for sure that he is exactly 50% white and 50% black. Note that he is considered black despite this, and that his skin tone is very similar to that of other African Americans in America.
My Colombian dad says that it is weird how Americans view race. In Colombia they had slavery, but there was far less interracial mixing and as such their Afrian-Colombian population has very little white in it. But if an Afro-Colombian marries a white Colombian the child is considered Mulatto because there is a clear distinction between the black, white and mixed. Oddly, they have a reverse one-drop rule on top of that. If you have a small amount of white in you than you are considered white (while still also being Mulatto). My dad will turn on news and be confused when they refer to black people to which he responds "what are they hiding behind the white people?"

To answer your question. On paper you will be considered mixed (have to look up the specifics per state but modern laws are more logical), but to virtually every American you will be considered 100% black. If you try to say that you are Afro-Caribbean/White European you will just be wasting your time because the concept of mixed races is just something that we culturally do not use or that we care about. As for your African ancestry being from the Caribbean, that is something Americans will take note of and possible find cool. If you have a trace of a Jamaican/Haitian/Dominican Republic accent (but I assume you are living in Britian right now so how would I know) they might find that interesting little factoid to know about but of little real consequence.

But don't British people use the same you-look-it-you-are-it thought process when you just look at someone that we Americans use? Do British people use the terms Mulatto, Chicano (part Hispanic part white), etc or is it an all or nothing?

Chicano doesn't mean "part Hispanic part white." It means you were born in the United States of Mexican parents. Usually it refers to Californians. There's another term for Texans of Mexican descent: Tejano (pronounced tay-ha-no).

 

[JDKJ]

To Americans: when you see a mixed-race person of Afro-Caribbean/White European descent, do you class them as mixed race, or black?

I ask this because as a mixed race person myself, I've noticed that a lot of Americans don't seem to recognise it as an identity in it's own right; they are more likely to class that person according to what they physically resemble the most, i.e. tanned skin and coarse dark hair = black. This is really putting me off moving to America as I'm worried that I'm going to be given a new identity that I can't relate to.

I get what your saying, but at the same time are you not doing the same thing most of the time? When you see a white person do you think "Caucasian" or do you think (in my case) "mostly polish descent with a bit of German in there"?

That isn't a race issue, though. Polish, French, German.. you're still white.

I'm not talking about heritage, I'm talking about race; actual biological differences that are apparent from first glance. I appreciate that heritage might still make people view you in a different way for various reasons, but it's still not quite the same thing.

by that logic then, if i am just white than you are just black, to the average eye. that's how it always will be to just about everyone. Why do all asians look the same? while from another perspective why do all white people look the same?

apples and oranges... But honestly, I know PLENTY of "black" people that are whiter than me and i know plenty of white people that are darker than half the "black" people i know, so really if you come over here you might be in for a shocker or two yourself, because if you are basing it off of apparent first glance looks, then you are going to be second guessing yourself with alot of people over here too then.

You're confusing me a little with the quotations. You say you know white and black people with varying skin tones - but what are you and American society classing them as? To go back to my original question, do you recognise these people as mixed race?

Easiest way I can explain this: If you were describing one of these "black" people to another person, would you describe them as "he's a black guy with.." or "he's a mixed race guy with.."?

If you ask me, America still suffers from its "one drop" rule (i.e., any noticeable Black parentage is enough to get you classify as Black). Increasingly there is greater recognition of mixed-parentage persons identifying themselves as being of mixed-parentage but there are those who don't much buy into the concept. Perhaps surprisingly -- perhaps not -- the greatest pocket of resistance to the concept is found in the Black community.

I think it's just a visual thing, you look black we think you are black. It's just looks.

That's what "noticeable" means.

 

[Belligerency]

Sorry, sleep dep plus dyslexia= problems


On the plus side TEA!



Also, is "Because we're awesome.", "Because screw you." or "Because my perfectly legal concealed Desert Eagle says so." an acceptable response to people who ask about differences that don't matter, make no sense or those where they may have a point? (ie: Furriner: "Why do you format your dates in such an illogical manner?" American: "Uhhhh......... BECAUSE SCREW YOU!!!!" *calls in airstrike*)


It is always handy to have harriers in the air at all times. Of course I'm waiting for a particle uplink cannon/moon laser.

 

[Proverbial Jon]

This may sound like a dumb question, but as an American, what does "taking the piss" mean? I've heard it said several times, and several times it seems like it contextually means different things, and I've never figured out what.

Also, as an animation fan, does the U.K. enjoy any domestically made animated shows? I rarely see anyone talk about an animated show that came out in the U.K.. The only one I can recall that was imported here was a show I used to watch when I was very little about a white bear called "Rupert".

It's not a dumb question at all, I think we all forget at times that some of our little sayings just get lost in translation, so to speak.

I have absolutely no idea what the origin of the saying is but if you "take the piss" you are generally making fun of someone by mocking them or ridiculing them. That's the general understanding anyway.

As for animation, the only one I'm aware of from the UK would be Aardman animation, responsible of course for the ever popular Wallace and Gromit series of stop-motion claymation.

Rupert Bear was actually originally a series of books and also a comic strip within one of our daily newspapers which is still going today. I remember the animated feature but don't have much more info on that one specifically.

When I was a child I remember watching a lot of terribly British animations, both cartoon and stop motion, such as Bagpuss, Ivor the Engine, Trumpton, Camberwick Green, The Poddington Peas, Padington Bear etc... Of course my favourite was Thomas the Tank engine, before it was bought out by the Americans. (Sadly it's never been the same since. I mean no offence but the Americans just don't understand how British railways work so the authenticity has gone.) It was originally filmed using miniature models at Shepperton Studios in England which is notable for being involved in a lot of British filming since the 1930's.

 

[JDKJ]

This may sound like a dumb question, but as an American, what does "taking the piss" mean? I've heard it said several times, and several times it seems like it contextually means different things, and I've never figured out what.

Also, as an animation fan, does the U.K. enjoy any domestically made animated shows? I rarely see anyone talk about an animated show that came out in the U.K.. The only one I can recall that was imported here was a show I used to watch when I was very little about a white bear called "Rupert".

It's not a dumb question at all, I think we all forget at times that some of our little sayings just get lost in translation, so to speak.

I have absolutely no idea what the origin of the saying is but if you "take the piss" you are generally making fun of someone by mocking them or ridiculing them. That's the general understanding anyway.

As for animation, the only one I'm aware of from the UK would be Aardman animation, responsible of course for the ever popular Wallace and Gromit series of stop-motion claymation.

Rupert Bear was actually originally a series of books and also a comic strip within one of our daily newspapers which is still going today. I remember the animated feature but don't have much more info on that one specifically.

When I was a child I remember watching a lot of terribly British animations, both cartoon and stop motion, such as Bagpuss, Ivor the Engine, Trumpton, Camberwick Green, The Poddington Peas, Padington Bear etc... Of course my favourite was Thomas the Tank engine, before it was bought out by the Americans. (Sadly it's never been the same since. I mean no offence but the Americans just don't understand how British railways work so the authenticity has gone.) It was originally filmed using miniature models at Shepperton Studios in England which is notable for being involved in a lot of British filming since the 1930's.

The Americans have their equivalent: yanking your chain. It goes back to the days of gravity flush toilets that had a huge tank of water above the user's head and which were flushed by pulling on a chain. They flushed rather violently and were know to splash your ass with water if you were still seating on them. As a school prank, it was common to yank the chain while someone was still sitting on them, hence the expression: yanking your chain.

Now if only I had some actually useful information in my head, I'd be "sitting in high cotton" (a polite form of the traditional "shitting in high cotton" used to denote a beneficial situation).

 

[VonBrewskie]

I'd like to know how some of you British folks feel about President Obama. Do you see him making the changes that he promised at the beginning of his term? Do you like him? Do you even have an opinion? I'd like it if only British folks responded to this one, if you all don't mind.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

This may sound like a dumb question, but as an American, what does "taking the piss" mean? I've heard it said several times, and several times it seems like it contextually means different things, and I've never figured out what.

Back in the medieval days, Royalty didn't want to bother themselves with having to go to the loo during the day as it was seen to be unhygenic. A boy was usually sent round with a pail, so the gentlemen could relieve themselves into it. The urine was then used as a dye up North.

So "Taking the piss" was actually being condescending to Royalty, while selling it on. Due to the high price of urine, it was actually more lucrative to transport urine than to transport other goods. So instead of transporting wine, for example, they took the piss.

Equally, it's been argued that it's part of Cockney slang, taking the mickey (micturate being piss), although it's usually thought to also refer to the Irish. (Micks)

Also...there's a reference to morning wood, as by "taking the piss" you are releasing the bladder and thus deflating the morning wood.

But given the idea of the statement, all of these could be "taking the piss".

Also, as an animation fan, does the U.K. enjoy any domestically made animated shows? I rarely see anyone talk about an animated show that came out in the U.K.. The only one I can recall that was imported here was a show I used to watch when I was very little about a white bear called "Rupert".

Honestly, there are hundreds. Cosgrove Hall have done some of the finest animations around (Dangermouse?), Smallfilms were (and still are) massively well known for Bagpuss, The Clangers, Noggin the Nog etc.
Mattel helped create He-Man/She-Ra, and recently we've had Charlie and Lola, Bob the Builder, Fireman Sam, Horrid Henry...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_animated_television_series

Before we even get into the Teletubbies and In The Night Garden.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I'd like to know how some of you British folks feel about President Obama.

He's not Bush. That gets a LOT of praise.

However, referring to BP as "BRITISH Petroleum" all the time is rather jingoistic given that BP hasn't been British for a long time.

 

[JDKJ]

I'd like to know how some of you British folks feel about President Obama.

He's not Bush. That gets a LOT of praise.

However, referring to BP as "BRITISH Petroleum" all the time is rather jingoistic given that BP hasn't been British for a long time.

Actually, the parent corporation of BP is BP p.l.c. registered in the UK and headquartered in London. Technically, while it is more accurately referred to as a "multi-national" company, it's more British than anything else.

 

[IndianaJonny]

I'd like to know how some of you British folks feel about President Obama.

He's not Bush. That gets a LOT of praise.

However, referring to BP as "BRITISH Petroleum" all the time is rather jingoistic given that BP hasn't been British for a long time.

Yes, to quote Robin Williams, we're glad the 'comedy pinata' has moved on. Obama's autobiography The Audacity of Hope was well-recieved here and he was seen as a promising candidate but even we rolled our eyes a little when the Nobel Prize came around. To be honest, I think we're glad he's not as irksome (or downright scary) as some of the Republicans - coming from a rather moderate, welfare-state country (but God knows how long that's going to last!) your two-party 'bastion' of a system is rather beyond us, I'm afraid.

I should also point out that our own domestic politics have been more exciting than usual over the past year with us currently under a coalition government so the US situation maybe hasn't had the same extent of coverage as it otherwise would have. This extends more recently to events such as us patting ourselves on the back about how we quickly we reacted to Libya while merely approving of Obama's change in approach to involvement in the Arab Spring since 'dithering' in Egypt.

 

[JDKJ]

I'd like to know how some of you British folks feel about President Obama.

He's not Bush. That gets a LOT of praise.

However, referring to BP as "BRITISH Petroleum" all the time is rather jingoistic given that BP hasn't been British for a long time.

Yes, to quote Robin Williams, we're glad the 'comedy pinata' has moved on. Obama's autobiography The Audacity of Hope was well-recieved here and he was seen as a promising candidate but even we rolled our eyes a little when the Nobel Prize came around. To be honest, I think we're glad he's not as irksome (or downright scary) as some of the Republicans - coming from a rather moderate, welfare-state country (but God knows how long that's going to last!) your two-party 'bastion' of a system is rather beyond us, I'm afraid.

I should also point out that our own domestic politics have been more exciting than usual over the past year with us currently under a coalition government so the US situation maybe hasn't had the same extent of focus as it otherwise would have.

We may have the makings of a three-party system. Those Teabaggers look like they're here to stay. And are wielding quite a bit of influence up on Capitol Hill these days.

 

[Belligerency]

I'd like to know how some of you British folks feel about President Obama.

He's not Bush. That gets a LOT of praise.

However, referring to BP as "BRITISH Petroleum" all the time is rather jingoistic given that BP hasn't been British for a long time.

Yes, to quote Robin Williams, we're glad the 'comedy pinata' has moved on. Obama's autobiography The Audacity of Hope was well-recieved here and he was seen as a promising candidate but even we rolled our eyes a little when the Nobel Prize came around. To be honest, I think we're glad he's not as irksome (or downright scary) as some of the Republicans - coming from a rather moderate, welfare-state country (but God knows how long that's going to last!) your two-party 'bastion' of a system is rather beyond us, I'm afraid.

I should also point out that our own domestic politics have been more exciting than usual over the past year with us currently under a coalition government so the US situation maybe hasn't had the same extent of focus as it otherwise would have.

We may have the makings of a three-party system. Those Teabaggers look like they're here to stay. And are wielding quite a bit of influence up on Capitol Hill these days.

Naw, three parties would never fly I can barely remember the two we have now! Also, the Republicans will just reabsorb the tea partiers.

 

[IndianaJonny]

We may have the makings of a three-party system. Those Teabaggers look like they're here to stay. And are wielding quite a bit of influence up on Capitol Hill these days.

That should be interesting, the Republicans will find themselves as the moderates without having moved an ideological inch. Over here, the Tea Party are essentially percieved as the zealous 'boy-scout movement' of the Republican Party so should a three-party system emerge, chances are the UK will see it as 'Democrat Party', 'Republican Party' and 'Republican Party Jr.'.

 

[Belligerency]

We may have the makings of a three-party system. Those Teabaggers look like they're here to stay. And are wielding quite a bit of influence up on Capitol Hill these days.

That should be interesting, the Republicans will find themselves as the moderates without having moved an ideological inch. Over here, the Tea Party are essentially percieved as the zealous 'boy-scout movement' of the Republican Party so should a three-party system emerge, chances are the UK will see it as 'Democrat Party', 'Republican Party' and 'Republican Party Jr.'.

I'm waiting for the Donald to form his own party and get elected president on the Birther ticket, that'll make it a three party system for sure.

 

[JDKJ]

We may have the makings of a three-party system. Those Teabaggers look like they're here to stay. And are wielding quite a bit of influence up on Capitol Hill these days.

That should be interesting, the Republicans will find themselves as the moderates without having moved an ideological inch. Over here, the Tea Party are essentially percieved as the zealous 'boy-scout movement' of the Republican Party so should a three-party system emerge, chances are the UK will see it as 'Democrat Party', 'Republican Party' and 'Republican Party Jr.'.

That's precisely the bind in which the Republicans find themselves. As a whole, they're being torn between the fiscally radical Teabaggers (who insist on trying to accomplish the politically suicidal (e.g., tinkering with the old folks' Social Security and Medicare)) and the more moderate members of the party who'd like to hang on to their jobs and know better than to alienate all those old folks (old folks vote -- they ain't got nothing better to do).

 

[holy_secret]

i have a question for America,
Why do you do your dates backwards? as in MM/DD/YY opposed to the way the rest of the world with the DD/MM/YY, smallest unit FIRST so today is 21/05/11 in most of the world but Americans have it as 05/21/11.
i just had a minor rant on another thread about this and felt i should probably get some enlightenment.

None of this makes sense!
In Sweden, it's YY/MM/DD. From biggest to smallest. It makes more sense. Imagine organizing your picture into a bunch of folders. Of course you would have the biggest one first (the year).
Blablabla holy crap I went off topic.
Maybe...I wanted to participate here a little...

Am I allowed to asked questions? I'd like to go both ways if that's okay.

I have no clue why we Americans do it, it is stupid and annoying, like Imperial units. I have heard of how British and Latina American countries use the DD/MM/YY but the Swedish system is better in my opinion since people read left to right and I want my most important number to be read first.
Retort question. For listing divide 3/2 do you label it as 3,2 like in Latin American or 3.2 like in America? 3.2 makes sense to me because when I put down a million 1,000,000 the commas seem to me to list it off like items on a grocery list compared to how in Latin America they would put down 1.000.000

Don't mention the imperial system I swear to god we've had enough of those discussions (seems to be a good fuel for fire if you catch my drift).

It is so confusing to read a date when it's in two numbers per category (xx/xx/xx instead of xxxx/xx/xx), because then it can be difficult to know exactly if they're talking about days or months or years.
10/04/06. Which date am I refering to?

Hmm...I'm not really sure. Math is not my strongest subject (I'm a linguist). Can't help you out there bud. Need to know what you're talking about first

 

[Scrubiii]

Question for Americans. I have heard Americans reference Scotland, England and Ireland but I have never heard a single American reference Wales. What are your thoughts/stereotypes of the Welsh?

 

[IndianaJonny]

That's precisely the bind in which the Republicans find themselves. As a whole, they're being torn between the fiscally radical Teabaggers (who insist on trying to accomplish the politically suicidal (e.g., tinkering with the old folks' Social Security and Medicare)) and the more moderate members of the party who'd like to hang on to their jobs and know better than to alienate all those old folks (old folks vote -- they ain't got nothing better to do).

I'm curious as to what Americans consider of the quality of (political) news commentary they receive through the media of television, radio and newspapers. Most of the good quality reportage here is done for the papers and for radio, is the same true for the States?

 

[Sun Flash]

Re; Obama, he seems like a pretty smart guy and would happily have him as PM over David Cameron. I think it's a shame that his health care reforms got so much backlash and a few other of his policies seem to keep getting blocked by Government, which leads to Republicans saying he hasn't done anything since he came into office, when it's their fault in the first place.

So what do you dudes think of our PM, "Dave" Cameron?


I hate to bring the tone down from serious political discussions here, but my dearest Yanks, I believe you have this bread, it's like brown bread, but it has a white swirl in it. I have never seen this in British stores and it looks super cool. Tell me; what am I missing out on?

Oh and Also, I once got into a conversation with an American whilst I was on holiday in Florida it went has follows;

Dude: "Hey, you, kid. Where you from?"
Moi: "Scotland"
Dude: "Oh really?! Hey, do you know my brother John? He's a train driver and lives in Italy."

So, how are Americans on European geography? and do many of you accept that Scotland, Wales and Ireland are a part of Britain and not just parts of England? I personally can't recite all fifty states but if you told me one of them, I could point out it's general area on a map.