American comics should take a pointer from manga?
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Good God, no.
Don't you dare touch my X-Men with your weaboo shit. Western Comics are doing fine.
Don't you dare touch my X-Men with your weaboo shit. Western Comics are doing fine.
Actually, no. I've heard no such rumor from anybody that comics are becoming less popular. Shame on you for playing the gross assumption card. Also, no they should not be more like manga. Japan is manga and America is comics. Let them have their thing.
The problem however is that most if not all long running manga series turn to shit. This being because the original storyline has more or less run its course and is now being stretched out like a rubberband. Even a brilliant manga like Berserk suffers from this.
Both American and Japanse comics deal with their big franchises the wrong way: Americans keep bringing characters back to life (so do a lot of mangas btw) and retconning shit, and the Japanese keep dragging it out putting new villians in the moment the last one is defeated.
Both American and Japanse comics deal with their big franchises the wrong way: Americans keep bringing characters back to life (so do a lot of mangas btw) and retconning shit, and the Japanese keep dragging it out putting new villians in the moment the last one is defeated.
Id so get into comics, but i dunno where to begin. Too many continuity issues, too many back stories, too many universes of the same thing, by different authors.
If they brought out a "Shit you need to know about Batman" series or something, id be down. But Manga is easy...issue 1, there you go. But with comics they have cross overs, sometimes made by different companies im just too lost =/
If they brought out a "Shit you need to know about Batman" series or something, id be down. But Manga is easy...issue 1, there you go. But with comics they have cross overs, sometimes made by different companies im just too lost =/
First off I wanna see the proof that American comic popularity is declining, 'cause I've seen no sources, just people saying 'because that's how it is'. And a lot are confusing American comics = superhero comics, which it doesn't.
Besides the last thing we want to do to our entertainment industries is to homogenize them. Let there be variety, because everyone has different tastes and preferences. Besides if we made American comics like Manga because; 'Well them Japanese comics sell well' then American comic companies would lose a lot of money because their fans would stop reading them because they became like something they didn't particularly like.
And for those thinking that Manga is some brilliant and superior form over Western comics. Remember that only a tiny fraction of Manga from Japan is translated and published in the US. Most of the Manga in Japan is either just as confusing and convoluted as American comics, soft-core porn, or a blatant rip off of more popular titles because Japan has different copyright laws than the US.
Besides the last thing we want to do to our entertainment industries is to homogenize them. Let there be variety, because everyone has different tastes and preferences. Besides if we made American comics like Manga because; 'Well them Japanese comics sell well' then American comic companies would lose a lot of money because their fans would stop reading them because they became like something they didn't particularly like.
And for those thinking that Manga is some brilliant and superior form over Western comics. Remember that only a tiny fraction of Manga from Japan is translated and published in the US. Most of the Manga in Japan is either just as confusing and convoluted as American comics, soft-core porn, or a blatant rip off of more popular titles because Japan has different copyright laws than the US.
Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind. It's pretty much what you'd expect a comic book written by Hayao Miyazaki to be like. I think the issue with this type of comparison is that, as anglophones, we're comparatively unfamiliar with the classics in another language. I'm pretty sure you could find good stuff in any language if you dig enough.Arsen said:
I disagree. Your seems to ask for comic series to be given limited runs so that they will have a definite ending without devolving into repitition. But most comics do that. Sure the big name superhero ones don't but the reason they have big names is that the don't end. Most series do finish, so suggesting it is somewhat redundant.aba1 said:
Nonsense. Are you really saying that Watchmen doesn't take storytelling seriously? Or how about The Sandman? From Hell? Maus? Or any of the thousands of comic series ever made?Jonluw said:
Sort of...Scarim Coral said:
Dick Grayson is still Nightwing
Jason Todd is still the Red Hood
Tim Drake is still "Red Robin"
Damian Wayne is going to continue to be Robin
Batman Incorporated is still going to exist
The Red Lanterns are apparently getting their own series.
I know I mostly focused on batman stuff here, but doesn't appear to be a true reboot...
Basically they're keeping the status quo mostly in tact they're just using this reboot to retcon out bits here and there... (Superman isn't married *gasp* Superboy didn't die because that story line didn't happen *gasp*) and give everyone a costume update whether they needed it or not.
Finally someone mentions Darkhorse. Aside from Marvel and DC, they are probably one of the best publishers out there, and by far the most stable.sageoftruth said:
As for the OP. No, I don't think that they should take pointers from Manga. The Marvel multiverse allows for multiple stories to be told. The big problem with the DC Universe is that it isn't placing the reboot in one of their parallel Earths, they are rebuilding everything from the ground up. If they just put the new stuff on Earth 14 or whatever, it wouldn't be pissing off so many people.
You do realize that they have both restarted their universes multiple times and created entirely separate comic series that restart stories and neither have every worked, and have even made fans angry and less willing to buy right?
The decline in comic books is not a symptom of something as simple as "the history is convoluted" that's far to simple an analysis. There are a number of economic and cultural reasons for the decline in comics. I don't even read comics and I know that.
The decline in comic books is not a symptom of something as simple as "the history is convoluted" that's far to simple an analysis. There are a number of economic and cultural reasons for the decline in comics. I don't even read comics and I know that.
I don't think American Comics should take pointers from manga, I think American SUPERHERO comics (Marvel and DC) should take some pointers from manga. Whilst I LOVE some Superheros (Batman, Deadpool, Iron Man etc.) it's sooo hard to keep up with the story lines simply because of the comic universes. Though you might be interested in only the one character or two from a company, you're might have to buy five or six different series to understand what is going on in their own individual series.
An example of this for me is the Blackest Night story from DC, the huge crossover that has more really to do with Green Lantern than anything else. Yes I thought it was a cool way to explain why superheroes seem to be able to cheat death more times than the kids from Final Destination (now if Marvel could explain how Jean Grey is immune to staying dead then good) but if you really only wanted to know what was going on in Batman for this, you'd need to be reading all the other series that were involved.
It's also a little intimidating to start reading a comic because of how long they've been in publication and have no sign of ever ending.
Manga has that slight edge going for it that if you start reading a manga then you know how you're going to read it. It's chapter by chapter, volume by volume. There are no other stories you need to be reading to understand what's going on (there are the occasional mangas that are sequels to others and ones like xxxHOLiC that crossover with the creator's other series (though HOLiC is a spin-off of Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles so it can't be helped)). If Marvel or DC could produce that sort of comic series where a character is completely separate from the rest of their other series, they could get more of a casual market who like superheroes but don't want to read sixty years of history to understand what's going on.
However, I will go on record as saying this. I love superhero comics. I think the medium is something so much different than others where instead of creating a rich universe and only focusing on one or two people, every aspect is explored in many different series that all interlink. If something could be done though that makes it easier to read them (other than collective volumes) then I would be in full favour of not changing anything else.
An example of this for me is the Blackest Night story from DC, the huge crossover that has more really to do with Green Lantern than anything else. Yes I thought it was a cool way to explain why superheroes seem to be able to cheat death more times than the kids from Final Destination (now if Marvel could explain how Jean Grey is immune to staying dead then good) but if you really only wanted to know what was going on in Batman for this, you'd need to be reading all the other series that were involved.
It's also a little intimidating to start reading a comic because of how long they've been in publication and have no sign of ever ending.
Manga has that slight edge going for it that if you start reading a manga then you know how you're going to read it. It's chapter by chapter, volume by volume. There are no other stories you need to be reading to understand what's going on (there are the occasional mangas that are sequels to others and ones like xxxHOLiC that crossover with the creator's other series (though HOLiC is a spin-off of Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles so it can't be helped)). If Marvel or DC could produce that sort of comic series where a character is completely separate from the rest of their other series, they could get more of a casual market who like superheroes but don't want to read sixty years of history to understand what's going on.
However, I will go on record as saying this. I love superhero comics. I think the medium is something so much different than others where instead of creating a rich universe and only focusing on one or two people, every aspect is explored in many different series that all interlink. If something could be done though that makes it easier to read them (other than collective volumes) then I would be in full favour of not changing anything else.
I'd like to see a solid story too, but let's talk about things that american comics SHOULDN'T take from anime:
1. Filler. I should never have to see a "Captain America walks his puppy" issue ever.
2. Having a very generic ending that somehow concludes the character's usefullness/kills him/her to save the world. No, this gets a whole paragraph, you wouldn't believe how many manga I've read that just say "I'm leaving because without the evil _____ the world doesn't need _____ anymore (See Rurouni Kenshin). Another overused ending is the main character throwing him/her self into a black hole saying "With this I'll cast all the evil _____ out of the world and make it a magical candy mountain place, tell ______ I love him/her!"
3. Yelling your attack out loud. I know this seems like a common complaint, but I feel that Batman's impact would be heavily demeaned if he jumped out of the shadows yelling "Batarang GO!" .....Also people would dodge a lot easier.
4. Black and white. I love manga, but I really do get pissed off that it's black and white, especially when they add color for one page and you stare at it going "What the fuck? Who has indigo hair? It is CLEARLY black on every single page."
and finally,
5. Having a super-ignorant main character who eats 5 times his/her weight a day in food and wins fights due to the sheer ignorance of his/her ineptitude in all things. (See Naruto.)
Other than that, I have no problem with the suggestion.
1. Filler. I should never have to see a "Captain America walks his puppy" issue ever.
2. Having a very generic ending that somehow concludes the character's usefullness/kills him/her to save the world. No, this gets a whole paragraph, you wouldn't believe how many manga I've read that just say "I'm leaving because without the evil _____ the world doesn't need _____ anymore (See Rurouni Kenshin). Another overused ending is the main character throwing him/her self into a black hole saying "With this I'll cast all the evil _____ out of the world and make it a magical candy mountain place, tell ______ I love him/her!"
3. Yelling your attack out loud. I know this seems like a common complaint, but I feel that Batman's impact would be heavily demeaned if he jumped out of the shadows yelling "Batarang GO!" .....Also people would dodge a lot easier.
4. Black and white. I love manga, but I really do get pissed off that it's black and white, especially when they add color for one page and you stare at it going "What the fuck? Who has indigo hair? It is CLEARLY black on every single page."
and finally,
5. Having a super-ignorant main character who eats 5 times his/her weight a day in food and wins fights due to the sheer ignorance of his/her ineptitude in all things. (See Naruto.)
Other than that, I have no problem with the suggestion.
You're making two (entirely wrong) assumptions. The first is that all western comics are Superhero epics that go on forever. The second is that the vast majority of manga isn't garbage. Manga, as a medium, has some fabulous examples of deep, meaningful work but much like the comic book industry, it's usually the crud that sells. Asking comics to emulate popular manga would just make more crap.
Marvel and DC BOTH need to reset their continuity, but actually do it, and then start on NEW stories and NEW characters.
Take Spiderman for example: He started as a teenager still in school, then after two years left for college, then after that graduated and moved on. Then he entered a stasis which he has been stuck in for 30 years -- by rights he should now be in his fifties and yet he is still a 20-something guy, fighting the same old villains on an endless loop:
Yes, the green Goblin and the Black Cat are good, but jesus they are OLD NEWS now.
What western comics needs is some originality.
Oh, and also none of this alternate universes stuff. Having "What if" scenarios is fine, so long as its made clear that they aren't canon -- there should be one universe that is obviously made canon, and it shouldn't just be one in a list of many.
The problem with western comics isn't continuity, its stagnation.
Take Spiderman for example: He started as a teenager still in school, then after two years left for college, then after that graduated and moved on. Then he entered a stasis which he has been stuck in for 30 years -- by rights he should now be in his fifties and yet he is still a 20-something guy, fighting the same old villains on an endless loop:
Yes, the green Goblin and the Black Cat are good, but jesus they are OLD NEWS now.
What western comics needs is some originality.
Oh, and also none of this alternate universes stuff. Having "What if" scenarios is fine, so long as its made clear that they aren't canon -- there should be one universe that is obviously made canon, and it shouldn't just be one in a list of many.
The problem with western comics isn't continuity, its stagnation.
*sigh* the old " american comics are die out" dealle is false, dont get me wrong im just as hardcore wehn it comes to my manga as i am with my coimcs but comics arent dieing thevey only gotten stronger and the rash of supereroe moves have made them even more so
as im sure this has been pointed out already mang does this as well (case in point DBZ)all long running seris be they manga or superohero comics(another point that im sure youve by now about the istiction btween superheor comics and other american comics)aba1 said:
most manga is equvlenint to a one shot or a grapic novle seis in that it has a clear beginning and end(even then thats not all that clear) superheo comics are like soapopreas, but better in that they have know end, now to the averge peron this may be a turn off but on the flip side it can be a plus to leave comics for awhile and then come back and pick up an issue and more or less contuine where you left off sice most of th time there interchangeableaba1 said: