American McGee Sets the Record Straight on China's Game Policy
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This thread is dire. Thank you for the interview. It was an interesting read and it's always interesting to have preconceived notions challenges. Not that I thought China was a 1984esque hellhole in the first place. Worse than Denmark where I live, for sure, and I strongly oppose most of their policies, despite being a communist/marxist myself, but it seems that a lot of people in this thread have subscribed to some weird strain of McCarthyism giving them a pretty weird view on things. Aside from that, China has changed a lot in recent years and I suspect it will keep doing so, no matter if it get covered in western media. I doubt the state can maintain the rigid control forever in the world we live in. As you said: information will find a way. And information is the bane of oppression, even if it takes time. I hope (and think) China will gradually change for the better.American McGee said:
And since I have you here any way I want to thank you for Alice and Madness Returns. I dearly love both games!
He wants to defend China specifically because of people like you, who's only understanding of China's culture and society is via broad, negative stereotypes.DemonCrim said:
Just a smidgen of research could challenge a few of your views on China. For instance:
1. "Underdeveloped"? Ever seen a photo of Hong Kong? Shenzhen? Shanghai? They are hardly underdeveloped by any means. I say this knowing there exists rural areas of China that don't even have access to electricity yet. Emphasis should go on the word "developing". It is fairly astonishing that a country and population as large as China can still feed all its people, especially as it has a lot of catching up to do in some areas.
2. "Terrible conditions for no pay". Sweatshops are a lousy place to work, but they actually offer a lot of benefits for a developing country. Untrained, inexperienced workers are given a chance of making a wage; a wage, by the way, that is not meagre by national standards. Sweatshops in most countries pay significantly higher than the average wage (Nike factories in Thailand pay twice the national ave. wage). They are a symptom of a world wide income disparity, but they are not automatically a bad thin, and people are happy to have those jobs. It's also worth noting that China does actually have a middle class, and ordinary jobs too. Not that you'd ever see that sort of thing depicted in a fictional representation of China.
3. The one child policy is poorly enforced throughout most of China. The further from Beijing, the more likely people are to flaunt the rules. Chinese families tend to be large, and have lots of children. The same goes for "one cat/one dog" policies - again, ignored by and large.
Actually, it is exactly the same damn thing. It is blocking imports from another country, for whatever reason. America often places embargoes [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargoes] on from foreign countries. Iran and Syria would be the two most obvious examples. You can't just make exceptions about the US.Spartan212 said:
I find it scary to read all the negative comments about the Chinese government on here. Sure, they are no saints (please point out a government that is...), but its pretty telling that so many just cannot see that a lot of the comparisons he makes to the US is quite spot on.
I especially like his comment about censorship. Who are we (westerners) to say what is the right thing to do? We censor stuff too, just different stuff.
I especially like his comment about censorship. Who are we (westerners) to say what is the right thing to do? We censor stuff too, just different stuff.
Well, if you compare it to Germany's censorship of videogames and you will come to the conclusion that the two countries have more in common than you think (although in Germany a game without a rating can be released, but it happens really rarely, since it wouldn't make its money back due to the regulations)
Also what Mr. McGee said here fits in the picture some of my friends from uni, who spent quite a long time in Bejing, told me about their time there.
Still wouldn't want to move there.
Captcha: walk the plank
woow, calm down D:
Also what Mr. McGee said here fits in the picture some of my friends from uni, who spent quite a long time in Bejing, told me about their time there.
Still wouldn't want to move there.
Captcha: walk the plank
woow, calm down D:
In China, first you get the game journalists. Then you get the power. Then you get the women.MikeWehner said:
That's why there are so many negative comments. By comparing something people cherish (whether they're aware of it or not) to something they're told is scary and evil, especially if said comparisons are valid, is a surefire way to elicit kneejerk responses of "No way, we're the good guys, we'd never do anything like that!"tzimize said:
I'm English, and fully aware that my country is in many ways pretty messed up, and that we've done some terribly, terribly fucked up things over the years. However, there's still a reactionary, jingoistic part of my brain that will see a comparison to a country like China or the USA as an insult and start screaming at me "Don't listen, don't listen! Your country isn't as fucked up as those places!"
My best hope is that this little voice will die if I refuse to exercise it by, for example, going on forum threads to argue that my country is superior to other countries
What we see of China is what is reported in the news. That news is not always negative, but more often than not. Even things which aren't inherently bad - the recent handover of political power, for instance - are portrayed negatively on the basis that the values clash with the values we claim to have; keeping women out of power, retaining power within an old-boys network, and so on.American McGee said:
The fact that our own socieities tend to fail these values almost as badly as China does is an uncomfortable reminder that we don't practice what we preach on any meaningful level, so it's easier to point out someone else's flaws than confront our own. We can claim that anyone can potentially be President/Prime Minister, and on paper at least this is true, but in reality the barriers of entry tend to be so high that the average person could never achieve it. Campaign funding in the US, top-class schooling in the UK, our systems of succession are evolving to a point where they're as rigid as China's are.
Anyway, back on topic: interesting piece. I enjoyed the perspective. However, I note you didn't really address the idea of censorship of your own output - you say that if there are minor changes the Ministry requires, you make them, but what about major changes? How at-risk would you feel about producing a game which is openly critical of the government? Does it bother you that if you did want to make a statement about some aspect of your life in China which was less-than-rosy, it could land you in trouble?
Here's my thoughts on this...
Mister McGee appears either dismissive or ignorant of the existence of the criminal charge in china of "inciting subversion of state power".
In the US, sure, Games can be censored by the industry associations who aren't actually part of government. In China, make a game that suggests the Chinese Government has to change? Up to Five years prison. Five years and longer if the authorities deem your "subversion" was "monstrous". "You game might not be sold in stores" is miles away from "Your game might make you a political prisoner". Could something with a story line like "Spec Ops: The Line" ever have been made by a Chinese developer?
Additionally, Mister McGee is either dismissive or ignorant that foreign media producers who have had their products banned in China can and have had personal travel bans placed on them as well.
Further, I also note that a substantial amount of the "thriving Chinese Games Industry" is actually the South Korean games industry producing games specifically tailored for Chinese government approval. WeMade Entertainment, maker of China's biggest MMOs? Based in Seoul.
Please Mr McGee, your rebuttal?
Mister McGee appears either dismissive or ignorant of the existence of the criminal charge in china of "inciting subversion of state power".
In the US, sure, Games can be censored by the industry associations who aren't actually part of government. In China, make a game that suggests the Chinese Government has to change? Up to Five years prison. Five years and longer if the authorities deem your "subversion" was "monstrous". "You game might not be sold in stores" is miles away from "Your game might make you a political prisoner". Could something with a story line like "Spec Ops: The Line" ever have been made by a Chinese developer?
Additionally, Mister McGee is either dismissive or ignorant that foreign media producers who have had their products banned in China can and have had personal travel bans placed on them as well.
Further, I also note that a substantial amount of the "thriving Chinese Games Industry" is actually the South Korean games industry producing games specifically tailored for Chinese government approval. WeMade Entertainment, maker of China's biggest MMOs? Based in Seoul.
Please Mr McGee, your rebuttal?
I know I'm not exactly popular in this thread, but after reading everyone's responses I'm pretty surprised to find it seems to be quite the even split on the people who believe negativity about China's policies (especially in regards to censorship) is justified and those who believe it's knee-jerk reaction and nothing more.
I still believe that it's wrong for a Western game developer to give an interview in which he does nothing but sing the praises of a section of the industry which we all know has it's problems. Mr. McGee, we here at the Escapist are not blind to the goings on around the world, we know about the issues in China, the only real news here was your own view on those situations, which frankly, sounded very apologetic. As I originally stated in my first post in this thread.
Don't misunderstand my argument though, I am not simply shouting "CHINA BAD!" I believe that it's our responsibility as free people on a free forum to discuss openly the issues of censorship in China and not to push them under a rug and shrug it off as "it's just the way they do things."
"The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment."
-Robert M. Hutchins
Let's talk about China's policies, let's not point fingers at each other because of differing opinions.
I still believe that it's wrong for a Western game developer to give an interview in which he does nothing but sing the praises of a section of the industry which we all know has it's problems. Mr. McGee, we here at the Escapist are not blind to the goings on around the world, we know about the issues in China, the only real news here was your own view on those situations, which frankly, sounded very apologetic. As I originally stated in my first post in this thread.
Don't misunderstand my argument though, I am not simply shouting "CHINA BAD!" I believe that it's our responsibility as free people on a free forum to discuss openly the issues of censorship in China and not to push them under a rug and shrug it off as "it's just the way they do things."
"The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment."
-Robert M. Hutchins
Let's talk about China's policies, let's not point fingers at each other because of differing opinions.
Welcome To The Escapist.American McGee said:
In all honesty, my comment was a joke. I too believe that i can't go past my own preconceptions of things without sitting down and actually being self criticial for a while , and all in all, i don't want to change my preconception about a country that is so Censorship happy.
Or rather is known as such. Besides, America censoring games with sex in them really doesn't bother me that much, because videogame sex has never proven to improve my immersion, rather it destroys it, so that's that.
But i'll still give China the benefit of the doubt. Nothing. Else.
Also, if you REALLY REALLY ARE AMERICAN MCGEE...I'm a huuuge fan of pretty much all your games, even the worst ones like Bad Day L.A. *Tries really hard to not sound like a creepy stalker fan*...Can i touch you?...Oh damnit!
I can see that I am not the only one who detected deflections here.
China is not perfect but neither is country (x).
The tone of this interview seemed very wishy-washy to me. I'm not convinced that China is any less ruthless with their censorship based on what I have read here. This seems like something to take a face-value and move on.
China is not perfect but neither is country (x).
The tone of this interview seemed very wishy-washy to me. I'm not convinced that China is any less ruthless with their censorship based on what I have read here. This seems like something to take a face-value and move on.
I get the impression that day-to-day life in China is for many people quite similar to ours in the west. Yes, there is political corruption and a significant amount of censorship, but the "do work, get food, spend time with family, hang out with friends, etc" routine I imagine is largely unaffected.
Now, would I rather live there than Canada? No, and not just because I don't speak the language(s), but imagining the place as some kind of dreary hellhole of people getting whipped for slowing down on their 23-hour workday seems rather unfounded to me.
Now, would I rather live there than Canada? No, and not just because I don't speak the language(s), but imagining the place as some kind of dreary hellhole of people getting whipped for slowing down on their 23-hour workday seems rather unfounded to me.