An 8-year old wants Gears of War 2

[Avida]

[snip]...I think another issue here is that a disturbing number of parents aren't even aware that games have ratings. They just assume that games are for kids. Take a story I have, and tell pretty often to prove my point on the subject. I was at Wal-Mart to pick up some things and decided to browse the electronics while I was there. There was a kid who looked about eight or so and he wanted God of War. So his mom called the employee over and pointed to God of War. The employee said "Er...is this for him, ma'am? Because I'd really suggest not getting it for him..." Her son started pitching a fit and she said "Oh just get it already" in a very stuck-up 'I'm better than you because you work at Wal-Mart and I have a severe case of Richbitchitis' tone. He said "It is rated M, for 17 and up. It is like the game version of the R rating." She said "Oh bullshit. It is just a video game. It is a toy for children, it can't be THAT bad." He said "Well, I have it and it contains a lot of violence and gore, as well as sex and nudity." She says "I don't believe you. It is a VIDEO GAME! They wouldn't put that stuff in it, it is supposed to be for kids. Now give me the goddamn game or I'm going to get a manager." The employee said "Ma'am, it is called 'God of War,' do you honestly think it is for children?" At which point she proceeded to cuss him out and demanded a manager. I left at this point because if I had to listen to this condescending, stuck-up, ignorant ***** and her crying banshee of a child any longer I would have had the urge to find a box cutter and end my life. ...[snip]

Ill give a million kudos points to that clerk for actually having decent morals and going beyond the call of duty. Also, you've got a good point but i started playing violent games on a regular basis once the new crash bandicoot (of the time) turned out to be a pile of ass and ive got no idea what possesed me to want the new type, i was young, why did i want to maim people :s. And in responce to verything else you've said - your right, i think the consensus amoung adults who do not game themselves is that games are more games and less murder-simulators.. I would say that should be changed but thinking of the media shitstorm that would ensue its probably not worth it.

 

[x434343]

I played Pokemon and Smash Bros. as a kid. When I was a few months shy of 15, I was able to get Call of Duty 4 and BioShock. Most of the games I get now are M-rated. NOT because I like violence. I like the stories they tell because they're more realistic. The last 3 non-M rated game I got were AudioSurf, World of Goo, and The Ship, and honestly, The Ship is quite a bit more violent. IT'S A MURDER SIMULATOR.

 

[Altorin]

Well, I am 14 and my favorite game is Fallout 3.... Does this make me a bad child, or are you saying my parents are doing a good job? Because honestly I know its just a game, but if the mere fact I play it is bad well I guess I'm at fault. Because I did bug my dad to get, but he also checked the rating before i even got a chance.

As long as you're not hiding it from your parents, and your parents understand what you're playing, then anything goes. We're mainly against parents having no idea what their kids are playing, then getting pissed off at us like we gave it to them.

 

[Bob_F_It]

Spoiler: Condensed large quote

Yeah, its the parents fault and blah blah... But why do 8 year olds and other well-underage kids want games like this? I mean, is this a sign that the marketing for these titles is screwy? What is it about killing and chainsaws that these kids are attracted to before even playing the game?

Actually, I've seen a lot of examples of little children wanting games that they have never even heard of. I was at Gamestop once a few days after Christmas to spend some gift cards. Unfortunately, everyone else in town was too, but that isn't the point. I saw a kid who couldn't be older than about seven or eight running up to random games yelling "MOMMY! MOMMY! THIS LOOKS FUN!" Seriously, he did that to pretty much EVERY game he saw. He even kept grabbing 360 games even after his mom said "No, you can't get that, you don't have an Xbox." Just saying, there is a chance that the kid in the story was a hyperactive little crotch-dropping like the one I saw, and just decided that he wanted Gears of War 2 on a complete impulse.

I think another issue here is that a disturbing number of parents aren't even aware that games have ratings. They just assume that games are for kids. Take a story I have, and tell pretty often to prove my point on the subject. I was at Wal-Mart to pick up some things and decided to browse the electronics while I was there. There was a kid who looked about eight or so and he wanted God of War. So his mom called the employee over and pointed to God of War. The employee said "Er...is this for him, ma'am? Because I'd really suggest not getting it for him..." Her son started pitching a fit and she said "Oh just get it already" in a very stuck-up 'I'm better than you because you work at Wal-Mart and I have a severe case of Richbitchitis' tone. He said "It is rated M, for 17 and up. It is like the game version of the R rating." She said "Oh bullshit. It is just a video game. It is a toy for children, it can't be THAT bad." He said "Well, I have it and it contains a lot of violence and gore, as well as sex and nudity." She says "I don't believe you. It is a VIDEO GAME! They wouldn't put that stuff in it, it is supposed to be for kids. Now give me the goddamn game or I'm going to get a manager." The employee said "Ma'am, it is called 'God of War,' do you honestly think it is for children?" At which point she proceeded to cuss him out and demanded a manager. I left at this point because if I had to listen to this condescending, stuck-up, ignorant ***** and her crying banshee of a child any longer I would have had the urge to find a box cutter and end my life.

My point is that many parents still have this idea that video game = child's toy, and that there isn't even a rating system. That, combined with their disinterest in looking at what their child wants and giving in to "pester power" is ultimately part of the reason why the anti-game groups hold such power. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that many of the anti-game activists were like this woman: Didn't care or pay attention to what they were buying their child, then looks to where they can point fingers after they walk in on Little Timmy banging hookers in his truck in GTA. God forbid that parents take the blame and start to actually fucking parent their children instead of demanding the government slam down the ban hammer.

That is indeed another issue with some parents: they spend hundreds on a games console as a toy so that they can go out and drink with their friends or watch soaps instead of taking their children to the park (and so on...) Saying that videogames are exclusively for kids just because they're games is comparable to saying that manga is exclusively for kids just because they're comics. Part of that is an underlying issue that the parent has gone Mister/Sister Serious thanks to viewing themselves as an adult, but it's the ignorance that'll screw up their children's upbringing.
If I was that customer assistant, I'd go ahead and get the manager (actually I did that a lot when I did part time work. "The customer is always right." Not on the law, you're not!)

EDIT:On a different note, I'm seeing a lot of misconception here on what an M rating means. If you took a suplementry read, you'd notice that it doesn't mean when your parents start to call you a "young adult", it's when you're actually an adult, when your morals are already established and stable, when you're not easy to impress into a terrorist.

 

[Altorin]

I think a lot of you are missing the point. Kids can handle fictional violence, for the most part. This 8 year old kid will probably be fine playing Gears 2. As gamers, we've basically come to learn that through the experimentation of our lives.

The point is, that mother may cause a shitstorm when she finds out what vile garbage is getting marketed directly to her kid [sic]. Then the game industry will suffer, just because she refused to acknowledge that there is a rating system that she could have utilized.

 

[x434343]

Now, I'm gonna try to work for Best Buy in a while. Like a year or two from now. And if I'm at checkout, I'm gonna have a big poster next to me explaining the ratings and ages where it would not damage them. I.E. M is 17+, but 14 year olds could possibly handle it, and 15 year olds can handle it.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

The sad thing is that clerk who stood up to the woman probably got reprimanded or fired.

 

[Imitation Saccharin]

But they COULD be physically accosted for violating the rules. You think police don't rough up resisting perps?

I would imagine so, because he's a cop. His job is to enforce the minimum rules on human interaction.
Your parents are the people who you love and who's example will play a huge part in who you grow up to be.

I got spanked 2 or 3 times tops when I was younger and it never happened again after elementary school.

I always subscribed to the notion that history in terms of parenting is one long chain of passing on a softer blow to one's children.
So although my dad only once went went beyond the line of physical discipline, I get glimpses of how his father must have raised him.

So this whole "Just smack the kid around!" attitude kind of seems degenerative IMO.

 

[Altorin]

Now, I'm gonna try to work for Best Buy in a while. Like a year or two from now. And if I'm at checkout, I'm gonna have a big poster next to me explaining the ratings and ages where it would not damage them. I.E. M is 17+, but 14 year olds could possibly handle it, and 15 year olds can handle it.

uhhh, don't be ambiguous. Point out where the description of the games content is and trust parents to know what their 15 year old can handle.

 

[Raven28256]

Do the posters have explainations of the ratings? "Mature" can mean many different things. They need to explicitly state "An M rate game contains extreme and -REALISTIC- violence and gore and/or suggestive themes, sex, and scantily clad women with unrealistic boobies".

With THOSE WORDS exactly. Also teaming up with Penny Arcade for new ad's/posters couldn't hurt.

Haha, not those exact words but yes, they give a condensed version of what might appear in games of those ratings. This is what it says, straight from ESRB's website:

MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.

Admittedly, yes, it is sorta vague, but I think it is enough to tell you that the game isn't for young kids.

 

[ThePlasmatizer]

I assume you're in the UK since it's an 18 rating. It's actually illegal to sell a game to someone who is below the BBFC rating on the case, and it's also illegal to purchase the game with the intention to give it to someone underaged.

The problem the law isn't enforced enough in these cases and we'll hear about it in the newspapers when we they talk about an 8 year old who torched a house because he played Gears of War 2 on his xbox 360.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

But they COULD be physically accosted for violating the rules. You think police don't rough up resisting perps?

I would imagine so, because he's a cop. His job is to enforce the minimum rules on human interaction.
Your parents are the people who you love and who's example will play a huge part in who you grow up to be.

I got spanked 2 or 3 times tops when I was younger and it never happened again after elementary school.

I always subscribed to the notion that history in terms of parenting is one long chain of passing on a softer blow to one's children.
So although my dad only once went went beyond the line of physical discipline, I get glimpses of how his father must have raised him.

So this whole "Just smack the kid around!" attitude kind of seems degenerative IMO.

I'm not saying "Smack the kid around". I'm saying sometimes 'pain' is the only thing the brain responds to. It's an instinctual stimulus that lets us know "don't do that". Emotions are only the icing on top of the instinct filled cake that is the simian human brain. It's INSTINCTUAL for offspring to defy or bicker with their parents, and to do 'stupid' things while exploring their world and the boundaries around them. Like it or not, we are defined by what it 'hurts' or is unpleasent for us to do. If doing wrong things is never made unpleasent - or at the opposite end, if unpleasentness is made common to our minds, which is the problem that occurs when people use physical ramification too much or in too great an extreme - then we will never fully 'get' the consequences to ourselves and those around us.

Anyway this is way, way off topic and sorry I hijacked the thread into it. We can take -this- to the Off Topic forum.

 

[Dele]

I watched porn when I was 8 and played K-18 games a lot at that time and I turned into a hippie.. I suppose that stuff wasnt that bad for me after all

 

[irishdelinquent]

A PG13 film is normally worse than a M rated game.

I must disagree with this fact. Sure, the effects in movies may be more realistic when it comes to gore (effects can have much higher poly counts, and only have to contend with the capabilities of the computer, rather than the system). Also, no video game will ever recreate the beauty of the actual human form, as seen in thousands of boobies...I mean movies. The difference is the fact that video games are immersive.

When you play a video game, it is the intention of the designer that you feel like you are the character in the game; you are doing everything in the game, and everything in the game is happening to you. Think of it like when you're driving a car; if you get in an accident you're more likely to yell out "That asshole hit me!", rather than "That asshole hit my car!" or "The car driven by that asshole hit my car!". That is because driving is immersive, and drivers can often feel as though the car is an extension of themselves.

The same is true of video games. While the media can overdo the effects of this (have you seen the episode of CSI Miami where the kids go on a crime spree?! Jeebus, that had to have been directed by Jack Thompson!), tests have shown how powerful video games can be. One test even compared how video games can desensitize people in a method similar to army boot camp.

So, in summary, the ratings of games may be more extreme than films with relative content, but the bottom line is that they both aren't appropriate for kids. An 8 year old should not be playing Gears 2, end of story.

 

[Bob_F_It]

MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.

I highlighted that second "may" because it suddenly makes the advice vague. It may contain sexandbloodandrockandrollingheads, but "may" inherently comes coupled with "may not". This is probably something I should wave at ESRB's receptionist.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

A PG13 film is normally worse than a M rated game.

I must disagree with this fact. Sure, the effects in movies may be more realistic when it comes to gore (effects can have much higher poly counts, and only have to contend with the capabilities of the computer, rather than the system). Also, no video game will ever recreate the beauty of the actual human form, as seen in thousands of boobies...I mean movies. The difference is the fact that video games are immersive.

When you play a video game, it is the intention of the designer that you feel like you are the character in the game; you are doing everything in the game, and everything in the game is happening to you. Think of it like when you're driving a car; if you get in an accident you're more likely to yell out "That asshole hit me!", rather than "That asshole hit my car!" or "The car driven by that asshole hit my car!". That is because driving is immersive, and drivers can often feel as though the car is an extension of themselves.

The same is true of video games. While the media can overdo the effects of this (have you seen the episode of CSI Miami where the kids go on a crime spree?! Jeebus, that had to have been directed by Jack Thompson!), tests have shown how powerful video games can be. One test even compared how video games can desensitize people in a method similar to army boot camp.

So, in summary, the ratings of games may be more extreme than films with relative content, but the bottom line is that they both aren't appropriate for kids. An 8 year old should not be playing Gears 2, end of story.

While I am somewhat inclined to agree, there are rare exceptions to the rule.

MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.

I highlighted that second "may" because it suddenly makes the advice vague. It may contain sexandbloodandrockandrollingheads, but "may" inherently comes coupled with "may not". This is probably something I should wave at ESRB's receptionist.

I think the wording should be "will likly contain"