an arguement I had with my friend

[Convenient_Label]

Building on xitel's comment, and in response to all the people saying that time must exist by referencing systems that evolve in time (cuddly_tomato, Baby_Tea), I'd like to point out something very irritating.

Time really doesn't have to exist. There are formulations of every equation in physics that are constructed without a time parameter, and they work. They work by considering relative positions of bodys as being the fundamental metric.

That's not to say that time, understood to be the parameter of intervals over which events occur, doesn't exist, merely that it doesn't have to exist for the universe to work they way it appears to us (including appearing to have time).

EDIT: As an aside, we've now constructed experiments that suggest information propagated backwards in time, if it does exist, so it's not much different than any other dimension if it is a real, physical thing.

 

[Danny Ocean]

You just described time in measurement. Just like the guy before you, and yet still haven't proven time exist. When things get old, corrode, move, change, that's all biological they take time if you wanna base it on measurement. But time is still man made,... and doesn't truly exist.

I think you're saying that our measurement of time isn't definitive. Which may or may not be true. If we end up being the only things capable of measuring something like time then it is definitive, and so to all intents and purposes real.

Yes, there is no reason why we couldn't suddenly start calling minutes ,"toothpicks," or something, but even that doesn't disprove it's existence, it just highlights the fact that the units of measurement are man made.

I mean. Objects, like a ball, still have a diameter, or a box still has a width. It's up to the measurer to decide how to classify that distance. He could decide that it's 3000 jiggles across. And we may say that it's 20 centimetres. Either way, it's still the same distance. It's like the difference between 30cm and 1ft. Same distance, different way of saying it.

You're basically saying that the car doesn't exist because the French might call it, 'Une voiture.'

 

[dead_beat_slacker]

You just described time in measurement. Just like the guy before you, and yet still haven't proven time exist. When things get old, corrode, move, change, that's all biological they take time if you wanna base it on measurement. But time is still man made,... and doesn't truly exist.

Not all biological things change over time though. Cars corrode, rocks erode, etc. It still takes TIME. Whether it's measured or not, or whatever name you call it is irrelevant.

This is stupid. First off, you can't measure something if it doesn't exist. We couldn't have any measurement of time if there wasn't something to measure. Therefore, time exists.

Secondly, you can't prove time doesn't exist.
You haven't, and you can't.

Just cause you move or exist for that matter doesn't prove time exist. Yeah I understood the explanation of multidimensional Universes also. Its not a bad theory, but just the fact that we can't see those dimensions show that time doesn't exist. Its like saying god exist so we exist when its' really something biological. Believing in something I can't see or feel is just the same as believing in religion. I'll accept that I haven't proven time doesn't exist but you all, everyone else for that matter still haven't proven time exist.

 

[mark_n_b]

In that we would all freeze to death if the sun didn't exist I suppose time wouldn't exist without the sun. But it sounds like your friend is confusing a mechanism of measurement with existence. Example, before Newton we had no concept of the measurement of gravity, but gravity existed. So saying time would not exist without the sun to gauge time is kind of dim witted.

I suppose the existence of concepts of reality is a pretty advanced study of philosophy but I am of the impression that philosophy of this variety is total crap, and the way you told the story makes me doubt that was the frame your idiot friend was putting on it.

 

[Captain Wes]

So long as I can go back and get my mom and dad together at the enchantment under the sea dance and almost make out with my mom and play Johhny B. Goode for Marvin Berry I don't really care



Warning: Serious Content Ahead

In that we would all freeze to death if the sun didn't exist I suppose time wouldn't exist without the sun.

Time would still exist, we just wouldn't be around to see it, the universe doesn't revolve around us you know (It's true, just ask my dad, he's real smart and he could Karate Chop someone in half)

Another Edit to clarify: Time is different from life, ask anyone whose dead

 

[Danny Ocean]

Its like saying god exist so we exist when its' really something biological. Believing in something I can't see or feel is just the same as believing in religion.

You can't see or feel viruses. You think they're real, right? Not some kind of evil magic.

Biology, fundamentally, is physics. Which encompasses time.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Not all biological things change over time though. Cars corrode, rocks erode, etc. It still takes TIME. Whether it's measured or not, or whatever name you call it is irrelevant.

Actually that's more along the lines of entropy ie things breaking down

That isn't his point. A change occurs. The fact something changes state proves time. There are two states to the same item

1. Unrusted car.

TIME

2. Rusted car.

You need that time otherwise the state can't change.

 

[Syntax Error]

Time doesn't exist no matter how or what theories you all choose to believe. Numbers in general were created by man as forms of measurement. And time itself is not even accurate. over the centuries people have taken away hours, days, months, and even years for odd reasons. Heck it ain't really 2008 there at least hundreds of years that have been taken away. Time is just another form on control for people in power to tell people when they can or can't to do things.

(to the fella above me, time has nothing to do with how long we live, Its all depends on how well we take care of ourselves.)

Stephen Hawking disagrees. [http://www.shvoong.com/exact-sciences/mathematics/1818030-god-created-integers/]

 

[dead_beat_slacker]

Time doesn't exist no matter how or what theories you all choose to believe. Numbers in general were created by man as forms of measurement. And time itself is not even accurate. over the centuries people have taken away hours, days, months, and even years for odd reasons. Heck it ain't really 2008 there at least hundreds of years that have been taken away. Time is just another form on control for people in power to tell people when they can or can't to do things.

(to the fella above me, time has nothing to do with how long we live, Its all depends on how well we take care of ourselves.)

Stephen Hawking disagrees. [http://www.shvoong.com/exact-sciences/mathematics/1818030-god-created-integers/]

Not all biological things change over time though. Cars corrode, rocks erode, etc. It still takes TIME. Whether it's measured or not, or whatever name you call it is irrelevant.

Actually that's more along the lines of entropy ie things breaking down

That isn't his point. A change occurs. The fact something changes state proves time. There are two states to the same item

1. Unrusted car.

TIME

2. Rusted car.

You need that time otherwise the state can't change.

Your still describing time as measurement. Oxygen cause rust not time.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Not all biological things change over time though. Cars corrode, rocks erode, etc. It still takes TIME. Whether it's measured or not, or whatever name you call it is irrelevant.

Actually that's more along the lines of entropy ie things breaking down

That isn't his point. A change occurs. The fact something changes state proves time. There are two states to the same item

1. Unrusted car.

TIME

2. Rusted car.

You need that time otherwise the state can't change.

Your still describing time as measurement.

No I am not. If I did then I would have given some kind of variable in there (such as 10 weeks or so).

Look, the fact it happens AT ALL is absolute proof of time. I can't believe you aren't getting this. There is a distance between two objects right? It doesn't matter what that distance is called, it is there. Time is EXACTLY the same.

 

[Fraught]

Yeah, time wouldn't cease to exist, but it would for us, because then we would die, and would go to heaven, where there isn't time.

Although, no, time won't stop. There are ba-zillion, SEXtillion stars (suns) in the space, and even if they would all vanquish, they are just hot planets.

It's as idiotic as thinking time will stop for the night if you put the lights out in your room.

 

[dead_beat_slacker]

Not all biological things change over time though. Cars corrode, rocks erode, etc. It still takes TIME. Whether it's measured or not, or whatever name you call it is irrelevant.

Actually that's more along the lines of entropy ie things breaking down

That isn't his point. A change occurs. The fact something changes state proves time. There are two states to the same item

1. Unrusted car.

TIME

2. Rusted car.

You need that time otherwise the state can't change.

Your still describing time as measurement.

No I am not. If I did then I would have given some kind of variable in there (such as 10 weeks or so).

Look, the fact it happens AT ALL is absolute proof of time. I can't believe you aren't getting this. There is a distance between two objects right? It doesn't matter what that distance is called, it is there. Time is EXACTLY the same.

Are you even reading what you are saying?... The distance from thing to another if you're measuring that distance with time then... you'd still be using time as measurement.... and still haven't proven that time exists.

 

[Captain Wes]

Yeah, time wouldn't cease to exist, but it would for us, because then we would die, and would go to heaven, where there isn't time.

Although, no, time won't stop. There are ba-zillion, SEXtillion a shitload of stars (suns) in the space, and even if they would all vanquish, they are just hot planets.

It's as idiotic as thinking time will stop for the night if you put the lights out in your room.

Fixed it so we don't get into religious arguements, that's the last thing that's needed now

 

[Captain Wes]

Are you even reading what you are saying?... The distance from thing to another if you're measuring that distance with time then... you'd still be using time as measurement.... and still haven't proven that time exists.

You've yet to give a single point as to why you believe what you do aside from "you can't prove I'm wrong. Please give one scientific reason you believe what you do.

Note: sorry for the double post, i was sure someone was below me, I am an ass and I beg everyone's forgiveness

 

[bue519]

Time still goes by, we just base our time on the sun. Time is our way of measurement of well... time.

yeah this is what I tried to explain to him, but he thought that without the sun time itself would stop, and cease to exist

Well, without the sun almost all life on the earth would die, so worrying about what time it is would be the least of my problems.

 

[Uncompetative]

Can you prove anything exists? What do you mean by existence? Can you prove you exist? I've never been sure that I exist...

 

[Ionami]

I'm interested to hear his explanation of WHY time would simply... stop, if the sun disappeared.

The idea of time passing, which is something we created in a sense, does not hinge on the sun. What about other solar systems and galaxies? Do they also hinge on our sun?

 

[Captain Wes]

Can you prove anything exists? What do you mean by existence? Can you prove you exist? I've never been sure that I exist...

I wouldn't be able to imagine some of the things I've heard in this arguement thusly I couldn't have thought of someone to have those arguements, and therefore someone else must exist to believe the things I cannot. I've proved that there are at least two people in existance, is that enough? Please say it is so I don't have to think anymore.

 

[RetiarySword]

Your friend is an idiot. Time is an axis like X,Y,Z. We just can't see it. Time is constant but is effected by gravitational forces. Thats why time goes slightly faster in space. If the sun disapered time would be the lest of our worries but it would still be there, just at a different speed.

 

[Fraught]

Yeah, time wouldn't cease to exist, but it would for us, because then we would die, and would go to heaven, where there isn't time.

Although, no, time won't stop. There are ba-zillion, SEXtillion a shitload of stars (suns) in the space, and even if they would all vanquish, they are just hot planets.

It's as idiotic as thinking time will stop for the night if you put the lights out in your room.

Fixed it so we don't get into religious arguements, that's the last thing that's needed now

Dude, sextillion is a number.
And yeah, you can fix that heaven thing if you want.