an arguement I had with my friend

[cuddly_tomato]

I'm interested to hear his explanation of WHY time would simply... stop, if the sun disappeared.

The idea of time passing, which is something we created in a sense, does not hinge on the sun. What about other solar systems and galaxies? Do they also hinge on our sun?

The sun is just a convenient way to measure it is all. In fact the earths speed of rotation is lowing down (due to the moon and tides). Way back in the earths very early history a full day here took only 8 hours. These measurements are also complicated by the fact that the faster you go, the slower time actually travels due to the curvature of space-time. If you read Einsteins work on General Relativity it explains this.

 

[Captain Wes]

Dude, sextillion is a number.

I know, I am a math major, I just prefer the scientific expression of the number of stars in the universe

 

[dead_beat_slacker]

Your friend is an idiot. Time is an axis like X,Y,Z. We just can't see it. Time is constant but is effected by gravitational forces. Thats why time goes slightly faster in space. If the sun disapered time would be the lest of our worries but it would still be there, just at a different speed.

Now you going to into theories of dimensions. Your X,Y,Z as you put is referred to as the 3rd dimension. And like just you said and I'll quot you "We just can't see it." still doesn't prove that time exists. Like I said, its like saying god exists but we can't see him.

 

[Convenient_Label]

Time is an axis like X,Y,Z. We just can't see it. Time is constant but is effected by gravitational forces. Thats why time goes slightly faster in space. If the sun disapered time would be the lest of our worries but it would still be there, just at a different speed.

Actually, in order to resolve certain anomalies in QCD when you try to apply it to gravity, one of the popular theories proposes that there are two dimesions of time and that the perceived time that we interact with as an everyday measure of interval between events is an essentially directionless measurement of the distance between two points in the 'Flat, time-like plain'. As a bonus, it also allows for things moving backwards in time, which we have now almost certainly demonstrated in a laboratory setting.

The deadbeat above me is arguing without explanation and can thus safely be ignored, but he may actually be arguing for the more rational proposition. Depressing, isn't it?

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Time is an axis like X,Y,Z. We just can't see it. Time is constant but is effected by gravitational forces. Thats why time goes slightly faster in space. If the sun disapered time would be the lest of our worries but it would still be there, just at a different speed.

Actually, in order to resolve certain anomalies in QCD when you try to apply it to gravity, one of the popular theories proposes that there are two dimesions of time and that the perceived time that we interact with as an everyday measure of interval between events is an essentially directionless measurement of the distance between two points in the 'Flat, time-like plain'. As a bonus, it also allows for things moving backwards in time, which we have now almost certainly demonstrated in a laboratory setting.

I understood that for something to move backwards in time it would have to pass the speed of light, at which point its direction through time would be opposite to ours relative to its speed?

 

[dead_beat_slacker]

If your gonna call me an idiot for not believing in the simple concept of time you're just as stupid. You still haven't proved that time exist, whither it be by Multidimensional Universes, or The measurement of distances or motion for that matter. Some people even refer to time as the 4th dimension but for some odd reason humans aren't able to detect or sense its presence. It's kind of like religion, people tend to believe in things we cant see. Am I supposed to base the existence of time on faith?....

 

[Captain Wes]

I understood that for something to move backwards in time it would have to pass the speed of light, at which point its direction through time would be opposite to ours relative to its speed?

Nope, you just have to hit 88 mph when your Time Flux Capacitor is fueled

 

[Captain Wes]

If your gonna call me an idiot for not believing in the simple concept of time you're just as stupid. You still haven't proved that time exist, whither it be by Multidimensional Universes, or The measurement of distances or motion for that matter. Some people even refer to time as the 4th dimension but for some odd reason humans aren't able to detect or sense its presence. It's kind of like religion, people tend to believe in things we cant see. Am I supposed to base the existence of time on faith?....

Let's do science.

Drop your mouse, does it hit the ground?

Drop it from higher, does it hit in the same frame of reference (here called time)?


There, time exists.


Note: The thread stops following and I'm double posting, I really don't mean to

(maybe time doesn't exist, lol)

 

[cuddly_tomato]

If your gonna call me an idiot for not believing in the simple concept of time you're just as stupid. You still haven't proved that time exist, whither it be by Multidimensional Universes, or The measurement of distances or motion for that matter. Some people even refer to time as the 4th dimension but for some odd reason humans aren't able to detect or sense its presence. It's kind of like religion, people tend to believe in things we cant see. Am I supposed to base the existence of time on faith?....

No. Base it on the fact you exist at all.

If you had no height - you would cease to exist.

If you had no width - you would cease to exist.

If you had no length - you would cease to exist.

Time is just another one of those dimensions. It isn't true that man made time, in fact it is truer to say that man destroyed time. We perceive time differently than those other dimensions, so our brains try to tell us it is different. But it is more or less the same.

A simple distance between two points in a dimension of reality.

 

[Apocalypse Tank]

Time doesn't exist no matter how or what theories you all choose to believe.

Of course it does. Between this moment (point A) and a hypothetical moment 2 hours from now after half a dozen people have proved you wrong (point B) stuff will happen. In order for that stuff to happen the universe has to be in motion. That motion, the stuff between point A and point B, is time.

Not a bad Theory. No matter how you put it, it doesn't exist and you still haven't proven me wrong. Cause that's all based on theory or idea. Just cause life moves on doesn't explain the time exist.

No that's fact.

Look dude this isn't rocket science. You need 3 dimensions to exist at all. Every single thing in the universe has some degree of height, length, and width relative to each other. If any one of those is removed entirely then that object ceases to exist. Simply because we have measured it using metres does not turn it into a theory.

Time is the fourth dimension, the one which allows the other three to change. That is what time is, a change between two events. Whether it is simply an atom vibrating once or everything that has ever been. The things that happen occur in space-time.

Explained perfectly well.
So how can you say that time is an illusion?

 

[MurmurTwins]

Lots of junior physicists here. Short answer is this:

What f'ing game are you two playing?

 

[dead_beat_slacker]

If your gonna call me an idiot for not believing in the simple concept of time you're just as stupid. You still haven't proved that time exist, whither it be by Multidimensional Universes, or The measurement of distances or motion for that matter. Some people even refer to time as the 4th dimension but for some odd reason humans aren't able to detect or sense its presence. It's kind of like religion, people tend to believe in things we cant see. Am I supposed to base the existence of time on faith?....

Let's do science.

Drop your mouse, does it hit the ground?

Drop it from higher, does it hit in the same frame of reference (here called time)?


There, time exists.

A+. You just described time as a form of measurement. But haven't proven its existence.

 

[dead_beat_slacker]

If your gonna call me an idiot for not believing in the simple concept of time you're just as stupid. You still haven't proved that time exist, whither it be by Multidimensional Universes, or The measurement of distances or motion for that matter. Some people even refer to time as the 4th dimension but for some odd reason humans aren't able to detect or sense its presence. It's kind of like religion, people tend to believe in things we cant see. Am I supposed to base the existence of time on faith?....

No. Base it on the fact you exist at all.

If you had no height - you would cease to exist.

If you had no width - you would cease to exist.

If you had no length - you would cease to exist.

Time is just another one of those dimensions. It isn't true that man made time, in fact it is truer to say that man destroyed time. We perceive time differently than those other dimensions, so our brains try to tell us it is different. But it is more or less the same.

A simple distance between two points in a dimension of reality.

Once again something that happens biologically has nothing to do with time.

 

[Captain Wes]

Let's do science.

Drop your mouse, does it hit the ground?

Drop it from higher, does it hit in the same frame of reference (here called time)?


There, time exists.

A+. You just described time as a form of measurement. But haven't proven its existence.

AHHHHHHH, No, I showed it exists we chose to measure the effect with it.

I give up, you've killed logic, thank you

 

[dead_beat_slacker]

Time does not exist. It is simply our mind applying an understandable framework to the progression of our consciousness through a series of static, overlapping, and simultaneously coexisting, multidimensional universes. The progression of our consciousness occurs in a linear, contiguous, and continuous fashion.

 

[Datalord]

Well, actually, if the sun went out, the reference point would be changed to some other star that moves across the sky, besides now that we have actually defined the length of a second (The second is the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom)
we have the atomic clock to mearsure time. So time would not "stop" if the sun went out

 

[Datalord]

Let's do science.

Drop your mouse, does it hit the ground?

Drop it from higher, does it hit in the same frame of reference (here called time)?


There, time exists.

A+. You just described time as a form of measurement. But haven't proven its existence.

AHHHHHHH, No, I showed it exists we chose to measure the effect with it.

I give up, you've killed logic, thank you

Just because you measure something doesn't mean it exists, centrifugal force doesn't exist, but that didn't stop people from measuring it. (centrifugal force is the force away from the center of a rotating object, but it is actually not moving away from it along the radius of the rotation, as was once theorized, the inertial response caused the illusion of the existance of centrifugal force) (not to be confused with centripetal force which actually does exist)

 

[Smokescreen]

I liked it better when it was about the hypercube.

I think you're going about it all wrong; if you're going to argue with someone who is going to reiterate the same point over and over again, the question really becomes:

What would it take to prove this hypothesis to you?

See, you're all working blind, thinking that this can be rationally explained. Time, like weight, height, depth--these are all human terms (concepts) applied to the Universe to help us explain it. The difference is that we can see weight/height/depth-but they are still merely concepts that we have applied to things to help us understand them.

So it is with time; it is a quality of thing (the state at which their atoms move) usually demonstrated by movement, but at the subatomic level, can be 'seen' (and by this I mean mathematically measured) as a state of activity (or not, or very, very slow activity). I'm not trying to say that when everything reaches 0 degrees Kelvin time will stop, because the atomic activity does, but it is true that as the Universe decays, we lose heat. (However, any further and I'm afraid I'd be going way off the rails-and as it stands I may only be on shaky ground; apologies if I'm incorrect.)

Time does exist-because things move (all things, at the atomic level). However, it is merely the measuring stick we use to chart and explain the movement. That measuring stick can change, depending on the math that we're using (as with things faster-than-light) but it is still a measurable concept that can be logically evaluated. To say that it doesn't exist is like trying to insist weight doesn't exist, or the air doesn't exist. They are things you cannot see, but you can measure them, and then use those measurements to make some pretty accurate statements about the Universe.

Of course, like all things they are only proven until something comes along and disproves them. However, if all someone has is 'prove it to me' versus 'this disproves that', then they're really just arguing for intelligent design, and should be understood as such.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Time does not exist. It is simply our mind applying an understandable framework to the progression of our consciousness through a series of static, overlapping, and simultaneously coexisting, multidimensional universes. The progression of our consciousness occurs in a linear, contiguous, and continuous fashion.

That's also known as "time". The tick of the universe. The time it takes for the very smallest thing to happen does create a "stuttering" effect in the universe that the human mind can't perceive, but that doesn't change the fact that things do change.

That is like saying there is no such thing as distance because there is a limit to how close atoms can get to each other.

 

[Ace of Spades]

That depends on what you mean by time. We could not use our measurement of time since we base it off of the sun, but things would still happen. Plus, if the sun were to cease to exist, I think we would have bigger problems than to worry about whether time still exists.