An instance of piracy being okay?

[Timmibal]

Sorry i still have to disagree. I buy a Disc containing Software. Not entrance to an event. If you want to compare it with a movie or music, then with a DVD of an concert, for its replayable. When i sold my SNES games, i didnt sell them the right to come to my place and play it. It was a cartridge. Everything else still is brainwash bull. I can go buy whatever product you like, if you dont like cars, even on the day after its released it is my right to say, nay dont want it anymore and resell it for less money to get a lil of my cash back. Thats how it worked since the dawn of currency and suddenly its piracy to sell something that you own. Well then everyone is a pirat somehow.

Perhaps I was not clear enough in my analogy. My problem does not stem from a person selling their property (IE, me putting a ticket for said concert on ebay), but from the retailer selling, recouping, reselling, re-recouping, and re-reselling the product ad infinitum.

I completely agree with your right to sell, trade, or give away products that you no longer need or want. My issue is with the retailer taking advantage of this right for their own profit, to the detriment of the person(s) who initially provided said product.

 

[Fetzenfisch]

Sorry i still have to disagree. I buy a Disc containing Software. Not entrance to an event. If you want to compare it with a movie or music, then with a DVD of an concert, for its replayable. When i sold my SNES games, i didnt sell them the right to come to my place and play it. It was a cartridge. Everything else still is brainwash bull. I can go buy whatever product you like, if you dont like cars, even on the day after its released it is my right to say, nay dont want it anymore and resell it for less money to get a lil of my cash back. Thats how it worked since the dawn of currency and suddenly its piracy to sell something that you own. Well then everyone is a pirat somehow.

Perhaps I was not clear enough in my analogy. My problem does not stem from a person selling their property (IE, me putting a ticket for said concert on ebay), but from the retailer selling, recouping, reselling, re-recouping, and re-reselling the product ad infinitum.

I completely agree with your right to sell, trade, or give away products that you no longer need or want. My issue is with the retailer taking advantage of this right for their own profit, to the detriment of the person(s) who initially provided said product.

Ah ok then. Well i am myself not a fan of those stores. But the plans about having to pay for e.g. a new serial after every (2-5) re-installs. Or being not able to use multiplayer after i bought it from another person(install it on another computer with different IP) this is what infuriates me. How it interferes a trade between 2 private persons, may it be via ebay, amazon or the local newspaper. A piece of the product i bought is taken away, just because i decided to get rid of it.

 

[Veylon]

My problem does not stem from a person selling their property (IE, me putting a ticket for said concert on ebay), but from the retailer selling, recouping, reselling, re-recouping, and re-reselling the product ad infinitum.

Infinitum? How many Atari cartridges do you see floating around Gamestop these days? Heck, how many PS1 games can you get there? Let's be honest, games have a shelf life, if only because they become generationally obsolete and nobody wants them. Or do you think eBay sales of NES games should be banned because they compete with the Wii Virtual Console?

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

https://orders.bethsoft.com/store/

Here's what you need mate.About 3/4 of the way down.

That's weird -- look at those prices. The Game of the Year edition of Oblivion is $14.99 for the PC version, or $29.99 for the other versions. The Game of the Year edition of Morrowind is $19.99 for the PC version. And the Shivering Isles expansion for Oblivion, which for some reason is only available separately for the PS3? $29.99. Odd pricing like this is why I still don't have either Morrowind or the PC version of Halo. They're both so old that if they're going to be in print, they should sell at $9.99 in reduced packaging, dang it.

OT: What the OP was talking about here is a point where I would say, morally, it isn't wrong. Legally, however, it's a sticking point, and under the written rule in our TOS, I can't advocate it. Under the unwritten rule, none of us can even admit to it. [sub]Seriously, guys. Read the TOS. There is no way to get that rule out of what is written without some seriously tortured logic. Especially because nobody has ever gotten in trouble for admitting to any other illegal activity -- and they do it all the time.[/sub]

 

[Knuxxx]

Frankly, I think the law was put in there for good reason, but if you have an equally good reason to break it, then in that instance you should be exempt. While as far as what situation is debatable, I also think it kind of defeats the purpose to follow the law to the T considering the law was made by man and thereofore it's not perfect. Divine law, sure, but that againis debatable. Just as long as you can prove you had an equally good or better reason to break the law then I see it as being okay.

As far as piravy is concerned, I'm neutral. If the game is good enough, those who pirate it will most likely go out and buy it. If you game makes people wonder if it was concieved on the underside of a turd in a landfill however, I don't think you have any merit to complain about piracy. I'll give an example:
Long before the DS version came out, I always heard alot of great things about Chrono Trigger, so I downloaded a SNES emulator and played it to my enjoyment. When I saw the DS version in my local gamestop, I picked it up without a second thought and bought it. Had I not pirated it in the first place, I would've been reluctant to buy it, especially since I was considering that or Killzone 2, but I choose Chrono Trigger

 

[frehls]

hue

 

[Timmibal]

Infinitum? How many Atari cartridges do you see floating around Gamestop these days? Heck, how many PS1 games can you get there? Let's be honest, games have a shelf life, if only because they become generationally obsolete and nobody wants them. Or do you think eBay sales of NES games should be banned because they compete with the Wii Virtual Console?

Oh come on, don't tell me the hyperbole was that difficult to spot!

Obviously there exists a shelf life. But within that shelf life still exists the potential for abuse by existing retail strategies in relation to resale. A prime example is one that I have used in another thread. A friend of mine who used to work at a game store here in Australia told me of an instance in which a single copy of Mario Party 8 was traded in and resold on 6 seperate occasions.

That's not the title, thats one copy of the game.

Is the difference between selling physical medium copies of games for abandoned systems and the damaging business practices employed by retailers becoming a little clearer now?

 

[Dejawesp]

Why do people say these things?

Piracy. Is. Illegal.

Doesn't matter what moral label you try to attach to it to justify it, that one fact isn't changing.

However, illegality and morally unethical/wrong/bad are always the same thing. It's
the same as legal and ethical/right not always being the same thing either.

Yeah but in the case of piracy its both legally and morally wrong. And apparently in some countries just morally wrong.

 

[Veylon]

Is the difference between selling physical medium copies of games for abandoned systems and the damaging business practices employed by retailers becoming a little clearer now?

Crystal. I think it's worth pointing the role of these retailers in the industry. They exist because the market punishes those who impose price floors above market value, as all game makers seek to. Most games are not worth what they sell for and the market compensates by spreading out the costs and benefits among several people, with Gamestop (or what have you) as the coordinating agency instead of, say, you and your friends swapping discs.

Is this damaging to the industry? Certainly; there's a chunk of people's gaming budgets that is finding it's way into the retailer's pockets instead of the developers. But it also provides a safety net to consumers; they know that if such-and-such a game fails to meet their expectations, they can recoup a good percentage of the price they spent. It's an enabler of impulse purchases.

 

[drummond13]

Why do people say these things?

Piracy. Is. Illegal.

Doesn't matter what moral label you try to attach to it to justify it, that one fact isn't changing.

surely the moral label is important, it is what defines law in the first place

Law is still the law.

But law does not equal morality. For example, it's illegal to buy alcohol in New York on Sunday before noon. Does this mean that buying alcohol is immoral before noon and then suddenly becomes moral? Piracy being illegal doesn't invalidate this thread's question.

How can piracy not be immoral? A company spends hundreds of millions of dollars with the sole purpose of making a product that they can then profit off of. You then take that product, copy it and distribute it for free without any of the production costs.

If you want to talk about the difference between law and morals then there's plenty of areas like prostitution where you aren't being an entitled twat stealing other peoples hard work

"Its fine to have sex for money as long as you videotape it" There's your law hypocrisy. You can have that one for free. Run along now.

Fair enough. Now let me ask you this. Is buying a used game on ebay immoral? Or a copy of a used game from Gamestop? Because that company that spent "hundreds of millions of dollars" makes just as much off of those actions as they do from pirates.

Look, I feel like piracy is immoral 99% of the time. But this thread is asking if there's any situation in which it isn't an immoral act. And there are plenty. You making blanket statements that it's always immoral because a company spent money to make the game is just ignorant of the entire concept of "morality".

 

[Dejawesp]

Why do people say these things?

Piracy. Is. Illegal.

Doesn't matter what moral label you try to attach to it to justify it, that one fact isn't changing.

surely the moral label is important, it is what defines law in the first place

Law is still the law.

But law does not equal morality. For example, it's illegal to buy alcohol in New York on Sunday before noon. Does this mean that buying alcohol is immoral before noon and then suddenly becomes moral? Piracy being illegal doesn't invalidate this thread's question.

How can piracy not be immoral? A company spends hundreds of millions of dollars with the sole purpose of making a product that they can then profit off of. You then take that product, copy it and distribute it for free without any of the production costs.

If you want to talk about the difference between law and morals then there's plenty of areas like prostitution where you aren't being an entitled twat stealing other peoples hard work

"Its fine to have sex for money as long as you videotape it" There's your law hypocrisy. You can have that one for free. Run along now.

Fair enough. Now let me ask you this. Is buying a used game on ebay immoral? Or a copy of a used game from Gamestop? Because that company that spent "hundreds of millions of dollars" makes just as much off of those actions as they do from pirates.

Look, I feel like piracy is immoral 99% of the time. But this thread is asking if there's any situation in which it isn't an immoral act. And there are plenty. You making blanket statements that it's always immoral because a company spent money to make the game is just ignorant of the entire concept of "morality".

When you buy a used game the original owner of the game sells his valid game licence to you. Which is fair and perfectly moral.

And where is piracy moral then?

 

[Dejawesp]

double post.