Anarchy. What emotion does that word provoke?

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KarumaK

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Joy.

A large amount as I cause as much damage as I can to everyone and everything before I'm finally taken down in a monsoon of bullets. Or if possible get away after stealing anything of value and many things with no value, just because I could.

Anarchy doesn't work, mainly because people like me exist.
 

Nickolai77

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If an Anarchist system ever came about, and i doubt it would i do indeed see private business becoming much more wealthy, fabulously wealthy without state restrictions.

This would lead to business becoming very powerful, and it will fill up the power vacuum left behind the government. Businesses do serve their own interests, their own people come second. With big corporations becoming very rich and powerful, without any goverenment regulation to stop them, they would snap up smaller private companies until around half a dozen or so mega-corporations pseudo-govern the state by controlling security services, education, health etc. No one voted these these companies in to power and they are only responsible to their share-holders, so what's to stop them imposing rules and regulations on their customers and workers? Most of the wealth would also go to the people up at the top of the company, after all, who is stopping them giving themselves obscene bonuses? It would create a society where their is a top ten percent with a fabulous amount of wealth and then another 90% of the population living in poverty- it is a recipe for disaster.

What is stopping one mega-corporation deciding to buy up arms firms, heavy industry, logistics and security firms and then forcefully take over the other corporations and establishing a dictatorship to control the volatile masses? Sounds like a dystopia, and it would be justifiable in my eyes to invade that "Anarchist" State to liberate the masses from control... which sounds rather ironic considering what anarchism is meant to be.
 

Rooster Cogburn

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THAC0 said:
i didn't mean to imply that the relationship between gov. and big business was "antagonistic"
but rather that it NEEDS to be antagonistic.
Such a thing would be a miracle with no precedent in human history. I don't see the need for it and I believe the state creates incentival absurdities which makes such a thing impossible.

THAC0 said:
I can't every recall a point in history where the working class has ever cried out "please deregulate our employers" (well, i guess the republicans would).
That wouldn't necessarily be a good case for the state. But history is riddled with such examples, especially in early American history. Plus, you seem to be focusing on the benefit side of the equation and ignoring the cost side. If the government stops a corporation from polluting a lake, that's good. If the corporation ceases to exist, that's ten times better.

THAC0 said:
To give a solid example, the coal mining companies around here like to stress how much good they do. they give very nice wages, safe conditions, good benefits, and do a lot of stuff with conservation and environmental groups. All of these things are things that the coal companies fought tooth and nail against right up to the minute that they lost at the state level and had these regulations forced on them.Now they claim them as a moral high ground. How would this have played out in your world?
In my world, there would be no artificial barriers to entry, no absentee land ownership, no corporate privilege, no corporate welfare, no taxation, etc. The result of all this would be to dissolve the oligopsony conditions currently prevalent wherein there are very few buyers of labor, leading to massively increased salaries for laborers and possibilities for self-employment. Safety increases because labor has increased leverage to demand it, and benefits likewise. The environment would improve drastically because businesses would lose their state protection and be forced to respect the property rights of others or be forced to pay damages. Imagine if you personally could hold the business upstream responsible for polluting your property.

THAC0 said:
if i could suggest a book to you it would be Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States" and see the freedom that private businesses are willing to let you keep.
I am not pro business. I am anti business. As I am trying to make clear, the system I advocate, market anarchy, would necessarily abolish the prevailing business model. Any attempts to improve conditions through the state, although they can be effective, are illusory. It amounts to begging your master for scraps which are rightfully yours anyway.
 

THAC0

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ok. i think your ideas are crap. i think that anarchy is crap. and i think that the only relationship between state and business should be to keep business on a very very short leash, with spikes on the inside...made of fire.

I have studied history for many years now and every book i've read, and professor i've argued with has lead me to this conclusion.

Rooster Cogburn said:
It amounts to begging your master for scraps which are rightfully yours.
but that is some powerful language there and it is pretty damned inspiring of a phrase. I think that is the closest thing that we will ever come to seeing eye to eye.

i'm going to leave it at that.
 

Captain Schpack

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Apr 22, 2009
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To me anarchy is a bunch of people going against the government. The word itself, however, doesn't dictate whether their cause is good or not. Also, i can see the word inspiring a feel of adrenaline.
 

dark-amon

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Anarchy as an ideology is what I would refer to as strong idealism (not like in an ideal siyuation but as in the abstract reference to an idea) I also think the utopic goal of it is immpossible.
The reason is that anarchy as an ideology wishes to remove all forms of authoreties. They base this wish on the statement that any form of power will corrupt even the most morally strong man. On this I see a logical reason as I agree to that power corrupts. However I cannot belive that there will be no weak/bad moral or betrayel of character in this utopia. Humans are in such a mental way that they will always be met by desires and virtues. And in most cases we can by our knowlegde and reason deside wich would be the morally right choice. however sometimes we choose the wrong choices, and in some cases we then need a set of authoroty to prevent people from beeing hurt, or apprehend people who have commited som moral evils.

Oh, and to all who cannot see the difference between marxism and anarchy: Both are supourting an idea of revoulution (in marxism today many belive in a spirtual revoulution rather than a violent one.) But where anarchy wishes no goverment after the revoulution, marxism desire a goverment wich will ensure rightfull sharing and no rich people to abuse the poorer people (wich there will be no of since there will be no rich or poor in the sosialistic utopia Marx dreamt of)
 

BiscuitTrouser

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Mithander said:
I am very well versed in the subject of anarchy and a firm believer. However when I try to have a logical discussion about it, people end up saying very stupid things, not by the fact that they are stupid (though there are those) but by the fact that they are mislead by popular culture's take on anarchy. Is there any conceptions you have of anarchy, why is it good, why do you think it's bad? While it might have a negative connotation in modern interpretations (some anarchists are even hiding under the name anti-authoritarians or anti-institutionalist) it may not be as bad a thing as you think...
Discuss! (I will try to check this regularly to respond to arguments and questions.)
Explain what it actually means please. What IS anarchy. Is anarchy when a society is self policed. Because that sounds rather inneffective from whta i have heard.

"Big jim burned down my house and i have to say i am somewhat distraught"
"Well you go down and burn his house too, after all we arn't civilised"
"What a spiffing idea, allow me a few moments to fetch my lighter fluid"

Utter chaos is stupid. Unless you make a few laws to make the choas slightly less chaotic. Then it isnt anarchy is it?
Explain your views, i only wish to learn what they are before i critique them.
 

frankenpimp

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somedude98 said:
Mithander said:
I am very well versed in the subject of anarchy and a firm believer. However when I try to have a logical discussion about it, people end up saying very stupid things, not by the fact that they are stupid (though there are those) but by the fact that they are mislead by popular culture's take on anarchy. Is there any conceptions you have of anarchy, why is it good, why do you think it's bad? While it might have a negative connotation in modern interpretations (some anarchists are even hiding under the name anti-authoritarians or anti-institutionalist) it may not be as bad a thing as you think...
Discuss! (I will try to check this regularly to respond to arguments and questions.)
Explain what it actually means please. What IS anarchy. Is anarchy when a society is self policed. Because that sounds rather inneffective from whta i have heard.

"Big jim burned down my house and i have to say i am somewhat distraught"
"Well you go down and burn his house too, after all we arn't civilised"
"What a spiffing idea, allow me a few moments to fetch my lighter fluid"

Utter chaos is stupid. Unless you make a few laws to make the choas slightly less chaotic. Then it isnt anarchy is it?
Explain your views, i only wish to learn what they are before i critique them.
If big jim burns down your house, you have every right to burn down his house.
 

Akai Shizuku

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The word "Anarchy" to me, incites a feeling of strength, rebellion, and solidarity with my fellow man.
 

IcyEvils

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Longing. This is what me and Pinky have been trying to do every night, along with taking over the world.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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It depends upon the context. Usually, when I hear the word anarchy it is spoken or writen of by somebody who doesn't have a terribly firm grasp on what the underlying meaning of the system entails. The common belief is Anarchy means an absence of government, which means an absence of law, which means that they could get away with crimes. In this case, when I hear such a word my assumption is that the speaker (or writer) is a bit thick.

Anarchy is not about the abscence of government or order, it is an idea that unnatural order is an evil that must be cast out. Government in it's usual form would be an example of unnatural order imposed upon the masses - there is no natural law commanding you not to steal or speed. But, of course these laws exist for a reason, or at least we like to believe they do. To a true anarchist, the idea is by casting down institutions of unnatural order one is free to replace this with a more naturalistic model. Somalia is often confused for an anarchic society, but in fact warlords and such simply act in the stead of a more organized government. Under the tradition of anarchy, there would be no final arbiter of right and wrong, just a collaboration of individuals engaged in endless discourse on the subject.

In this way, anarchy is indeed a utopian society, for ingrained in the idea is the belief that no one person will have the will or the ability to gain more than his true share of power. An individuals only real power in life is over his own course and actions - over others you only hold the power of death unless they willingly surrender more. Since it appears that in any situation where there is a way for someone to gain power someone will indeed take up the reigns, anarchy, like other utopian ideas, is doomed to fail. In spite of this, it remains an interesting subject to discuss from a philosophical standpoint, especially the ideas of personal and public rights and the pursuit and use of power.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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frankenpimp said:
somedude98 said:
Mithander said:
I am very well versed in the subject of anarchy and a firm believer. However when I try to have a logical discussion about it, people end up saying very stupid things, not by the fact that they are stupid (though there are those) but by the fact that they are mislead by popular culture's take on anarchy. Is there any conceptions you have of anarchy, why is it good, why do you think it's bad? While it might have a negative connotation in modern interpretations (some anarchists are even hiding under the name anti-authoritarians or anti-institutionalist) it may not be as bad a thing as you think...
Discuss! (I will try to check this regularly to respond to arguments and questions.)
Explain what it actually means please. What IS anarchy. Is anarchy when a society is self policed. Because that sounds rather inneffective from whta i have heard.

"Big jim burned down my house and i have to say i am somewhat distraught"
"Well you go down and burn his house too, after all we arn't civilised"
"What a spiffing idea, allow me a few moments to fetch my lighter fluid"

Utter chaos is stupid. Unless you make a few laws to make the choas slightly less chaotic. Then it isnt anarchy is it?
Explain your views, i only wish to learn what they are before i critique them.
If big jim burns down your house, you have every right to burn down his house.
Technically, you have every right to burn down his house even if he does nothing to you in the first place. Afterall, it is unlikely that the universe itself will be offended enough to strike you down. If you also don't really believe that a god of some kind actually cares what you do (either because of disinterest, death or lack of power) then you find that your natural rights are fairly thorough. One only has the right to property so long as they posess the means to defend said property the saying goes. One can argue the point from a number of angles (it's illegal or immoral being the most common) but at the end of the day the only way one can claim ownership of something is to ensure it cannot be taken. Most of us rely on the government and societial norms to do the job for us and are understandably shocked when we are called out to defend what is "ours" (i.e. someone broke into my car and stole my radio or something).

As I have stated already, the assumption is that once free of unnatural order, humanity would eventually enter a state of natural order and equilibrium. For example, because one only owns what they can defend, there would be a fair distribution of resources. I don't really think this is terribly likely as it seems if Nietzsche was right about anythign it was his idea of "The Will to Power"
 

VegasFall

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Sep 5, 2009
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I think it provokes freedom, or the illusion of freedom. When it comes to systems, anarchy is a way to break that system. I think for those who enjoy the company of anarchy in their life, it creates a balance between true freedom and the illusion. So all in all, its a loop hole because to create anarchy you have to create a system that goes against the system you're trying to break. Anarchy in itself is a system. In the end there really is no escaping it. So, I guess its better to have the illusion that anarchy is freeing you from something.

( Does any of this make sense to anyone??) =D
 

standokan

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May 28, 2009
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hatred, it makes me wanna disobey and in some way it brings me to the song 'killing in the name of', just listen and you'll know wy ^^.