Anime Argument #173

[Abedeus]

Light Yagami,

The Death Note,

The names wirtten of every character in DBZ,

And were done.

Assuming he knew Goku's real name, Kakarotto. I'm not sure pseudonyms work, might not remember correctly.

But umm, Naruto last I checked can't destroy entire planet with one attack. Goku can and almost did.

 

[Weaver]

How is this not a versus thread?

 

[Arina Love]

Mugi-chan will annihilate everything and everyone without exception. Dat eyebrows POWER is limitless and omnipotent.
all your gokus narutos ichigos and other scum will be reduced to this

 

[Cette]

Can't think of any anime characters I've seen who have the chops for it but I think The Saint of Killers from Preacher is a likely candidate if we go outside style. Took a nuke to the face without flinching and has pistols that are blessed by god to never miss and every hit will be fatal.

That's about the most stupidly overpowered thing I've heard of. Maybe a hardcore reality manipulating character as well but I can't think of that many off the top of my head.

 

[wintercoat]

Comparing god level characters to non-god level characters exists for 2 reasons. As masturbatory aids of the fans of said god character, or for rage bait against fans of the non-god level character.

 

[BishopofAges]

Completely off-topic: This arguement reminds me of an old 'why I like Batman better than Superman' discussion I had with my friends. We all agreed that Batman was strong and smart enough to tackle nearly any issue, whereas Superman tries to melt it, punch it, or throw it in the sun, and if that doesn't work it seems Superman is out of ideas. Not to be arguementative, but Goku is kind of Superman in this sense, if he cannot punch it, spirit bomb it, or throw it into the sun/other dimention then he's kind of dead in the water.

On topic: I don't like 'who could win in a fight' arguements because they always pit two good guys or two bad guys against each other. It sort of ruins the whole 'good guy/bad guy' type standard if we see Goku beating up Naruto simply because they kind of fight for the same things and have nearly no reason to fight one another.

edit: Also, After Dragonball, it seems as thought Goku forgot the whole 'train the mind' part along with the body, that he was taught by Master Roshi.

 

[wintercoat]

(Double Post)

 

[Coldster]

Dragonball and Dragonball Z were the shows that got me into anime...then I got out of it again because I got more mature and stopped watching Naruto and Inyuasha. This topic is actually pretty cool, but I lack the required anime knowledge to carry on a good conversation. I'll just continue to read the comments. =)

P.S. Still love Dragonball and Dragonball Z and nothing will ever change that!

 

[BlumiereBleck]

This is kinda like saying Char Aznable could beat Zechs Marquise. IT CANNOT BE DONE! Being a badass in one universe doesn?t mean you?re a badass in another. For all we know Luffy is a million times stronger than Goku. We don?t know?..[rambles on for a few hours] ?..and that is why fan fiction and universe crossing of anime is bad!

 

[Da Orky Man]

comparing characters that exist in different realities is pointless as there is no baseline.

Half the fun of being a nerd is being able to do that. I've had long, intense arguments over which would win: A Super-Star Destroyer, or a Retribution-class Battleship.

The Super-Star Destroyer.

Retribution-class Battleship.

My money's on the Retribution.

 

[DioWallachia]

what about if he fought a mentally handicapped llama, but get this, THE LLAMA WAS GOD!
In all seriousness, you cannot compare 2 characters who do not exist in the same universe...there is no comparative baseline.

Nonsense, only if the llama was wearing a hat i will believe that it is God

 

[SuperSuperSuperGuy]

Hhmm... Well, as long as he could Geass him, Lelouch could command Goku to kill himself. As for Light Yagami, I don't think it'll work; Goku isn't human, and I'm not sure if the Death Note could work on Saiyans. Simon and the Tengan Toppa Gurren Lagann might win, but that's assuming it's not too big to attack Goku. At the very least, it wouldn't be an exciting fight.

You know what I think would be interesting? A friendly fight between Goku and Nanoha. Goku may be ridiculously overpowered, but Nanoha has the Starlight Breaker, which is pretty much the Kamehameha shot from a staff. Goku'd probably win, though, being super fast and super strong. Still, it'd be interesting.

 

[RJ 17]

I saw a couple of people bring up that Vegeta has beaten Goku twice. I recall him winning as Majin Vegeta, but in that fight he only wins because Goku doesn't go SSJ 3 because he doesn't want to see Vegeta cry like a little *****. Other than that, when is the 2nd time in DBZ that Vegeta wins?

I love being a nerd, precisely for the "versus" debates. I think if you go back to the days of the Greeks, you'll probably find unshaven dudes sitting around, arguing over who would win in a Hercules/Perseus match-up, citing any and all minutia from each demigod's barest related tales. (For the historically-challenged, it might also interest you to know that the Romans had twenty-sided dice - no, I'm not kidding.)

However, Goku is a fallback nerd argument to eclipse all of them; the sort of cliche that cannot be justified as quaint or clever in any regard, and any nerd still trying to force him into every "versus" battle has zero cred with me. Firstly, Goku's creator, and various writers associated with him, are simply going to come up with some stupid means for him to succeed, no matter how ridiculous. He is not a character who lives within his means, or his story arch, so he probably should be excluded from these sorts of debates. Most characters have defining borders. Spider-Man, for instance, clings to walls, is very smart, is fast, precognitive to danger, and is only so-so on the superhero strength scale. He can fail because is defined by those limitations, and when he succeeds, it's within those limitations. He finds some way to resourcefully get around them, or through them, reasonably. He turns weakness into strength.

Goku, on the other hand, simply grunts and groans, sometimes dies, and basically punches his way to success by sheer escalation of raw power. He gets stronger because the writer says so, afraid to permanently lose his cash cow. There's little to him, and nothing real in the way of resourcefulness. He doesn't have to grow as a character, because the next time he gets injured, the writer will simply have him come back with more muscles. By virtue of this meme, Goku will eventually pwn, but he should never be proud of it, and nobody ought to be praising him for it. It's a grunt-your-way-to-violent-success arc. It doesn't really mean anything.

Not to mention that, though they also talk a lot, the characters in Naruto at least try to get their jitsu off quickly. Goku usually stands around talking about fighting for about 17 episodes, before he then "powers up" for another 10, leaving himself totally exposed while doing so. His enemies just stand there watching and waiting. If Goku existed in Naruto's world, he would have the crap kicked out of him before his hair turned yellow. But being in his own world, he is immune to preemptive attacks, protected by the same piss-poor writing that gives him godlike strength each time he stubs his little toe.

For the record, and not many people know this, but DBZ was supposed to end with the Freiza saga. That's why it's so full of flashbacks. That's why it takes 30 frickin' episodes for the fight to be over. And when you think about it: that actually is the most logical ending point for the series. After an epic battle in which Vegeta and Krilin die, Goku finally becomes the ultimate badass by going SSJ and has a climactic fight against a galactic overlord on an exploding planet.

It was the producers (I believe) that poked the original creator and said "Keep going, damnit! People love this crap!" And so we get the Android/Cell saga and the Buu saga. "KEEP GOING GOD DAMN! DANCE MONKEY BOY!" and we get the absolute abommination that is DBGT.

Now as for your argument. Indeed, DBZ drags on and on because every fight is based around flashbacks and conversations in which the villians talk about how badass they are and how hopeless the situation is and the good guys basically call them a bunch of evil twats. However the power-up thing is a bit of a commonly held misconception. True, when making a demonstration of the depths of their power, the saiyajins can often get a bit flashy with their constipation. However that need not always be the case, such as in the Buu saga when Goku goes from SSJ to SSJ 2 to SSJ 3 in all of about 5 seconds.

In Naruto's universe, Goku would have no "Grrrrr you're bad!" speeches to give. And seeing as how Goku is a more serious fighter (as opposed to fighters like Vegeta who love showboating) I doubt he'd take a 10-minute powerup break. Not to mention that all Goku really needs to do is say "Kiaoken(spelling x 4" And I'm pretty sure the super human speed/strength gained from that would be enough to "teleport" behind Naruto and break his weak human neck.

Vegeta beat Goku twice, it's not like Goku is unbeatable. I'm sure it's possible for Naruto to get one in if they had some sparing matches.

To sit and seriously argue about this would be kinda silly tho.

And just tossing this out there.

Goku pretty much would have died against Broly in the 8th movie.

The only thing that saved him was the combined energy of everyone that gave them their KI, (And the writers deciding, Oh shit... Goku is the hero here... We need to find a way to wrap this up)

I was wondering when someone would point out the obvious fact that in terms of a one on one fight, Broly has never been defeated by Goku. This is because he's the LSSJ (Legendary SSJ, the SSJ that Vegeta's always preaching about in the Freiza saga) and his power quite literally has no limit. The longer he fights, the stronger and faster he gets. He's just a powerhouse factory of limitless potential. And indeed, in every movie he's been in it takes some kind of group attack to defeat him. 1 v 1 Broly would utterly destroy Goku.

 

[spartan231490]

in response of who would beat Goku: Light Yagami or Leloush vi Britannia...

he's fucked in both cases

good point.

However, the OP is correct in that no other anime character can match him in a power match. He could destroy planets at SS1

 

[RJ 17]

This is why I started this topic: to get a bunch of people talking about their favorite characters in light-hearted fun.

As for everyone saying Death Note = Death to Goku, as a few others have pointed out: the book doesn't work on none-humans, and Goku isn't human, so that negates that argument.

As for everyone saying that cross over fights don't work because you have to adapt for different universes, that's not really true. You know the characters, you now what they're capable of. You slap two characters into an arena each being full power and able to use all their techniques, its rather easy to debate which one could defeat which. Naruto going to Goku's Earth wouldn't change the fact that Naruto can use ninja magic or transform into a giant demon fox. A gundam pilot's gundam wouldn't vanish upon entering Goku's universe. Nor would Goku lose his ability to charge up his ki by entering any other universe. So I guess I just don't see the logic behind the "CROSS OVER FIGHTS DON'T WORK DAMNIT!!" argument.

But someone did already come up with the obvious answer and it comes from the DBZ universe. Broly. Broly has only ever been defeated by some form of group effort, either simultaneous Kamehame's or people funneling their energy to Goku or what have you. Strictly speaking in a 1 on 1 fight, Broly would utterly destroy Goku.

 

[LiberalSquirrel]

I love being a nerd, precisely for the "versus" debates. I think if you go back to the days of the Greeks, you'll probably find unshaven dudes sitting around, arguing over who would win in a Hercules/Perseus match-up, citing any and all minutia from each demigod's barest related tales. (For the historically-challenged, it might also interest you to know that the Romans had twenty-sided dice - no, I'm not kidding.)

...Thank you for putting that mental picture in my head.

On topic, though: power levels are extremely dependent on the universe the character is set in, whether it's explicit or not. And an author almost always has a maximum power level that can be achieved in that universe (and more often than not, the main character has that power level, eventually).

But if everyone in all the different universes could somehow be transported with all their universe-applicable powers to fight in another one? As already mentioned, Simon from Gurren Lagann would kinda kick ass and take names. Boy can toss around galaxies. It's hard to beat that.

 

[DanielBrown]

Fuck, Shit, your right.

OK I got it. Use the Death Note to control all the human characters to make them find the dragon balls and wish for Goku to be deaf, dumb, blind, and no limbs.

I hope I didn't miss anything.

Wasn't all Dragon Balls on Earth lost after

Spoiler

the Piccolo-God died?

Though if the controlled people don't know where the dragon balls are to begin with they'd just die of an heart attack anyway.

 

[Dango]

Dante from Devil May Cry is technically an anime character, and I think he would have a pretty good chance of winning.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Oh quaint. It's a "vs" topic in disguise.

(Vs Threads)

[Do: While]

If: Your_Character >= My_Character
Then: My_Character + 1

[catch:OVERFLOW, Try: Vars=NULL/1 | go to 1]

If: My Character > Your_Character
cout = "I Win Argument"
go to 2
[/do]

I wish I still had the real original syntax for the Do-While Loop for "Fictional Character vs" threads.
But that's basically what every one of these arguments boils down to.
"Mine is better than yours...because"