Anime Argument #173
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Goku is OP therefore he wins. He fights enemies that can destroy the galaxy with the snap of a finger. Naruto, well... He fights people with a bit more skill but less raw destructive universe obliterating power. If he got a kunai thrown at him, he might die if it hits the right place. If you threw a kunai at Goku, it would probably just bounce off and he wouldn't even notice. This is an issue of power, and Goku is the one who has the most. If they were equal in terms of raw power, then naruto could probably win, but this is not the case.
I call a mistrial. Haruhi would love a world where Goku existed, and thus her powers wouldn't remove him from it.ms_sunlight said:
Though you know what I think would be a fun matchup? Johan (Monster) vs. Goku. Not a physical fight, just putting the two in the same room and forcing them to chit-chat...Just because I'd love to see how everything Johan said would go right over Goku's head. I just want to see how long it takes before Johan explodes from frustration with Goku's incessent optimism and uncorruptability, both of which far outstrip that of even Dr. Tenma.
I dunno. I suppose you could make the argument based on lack of opponent, turning this more into an examination of which series jumped the shark and examining how far they went after that.AC10 said:
Sorry, I prefer paying attention to the story that is being told instead of making juvenile power comparisons.
Cause you know that's what the show/comic is about.
Not how strong the character is but the story that is being told and if how strong the main character is is all the story there is then it's a shitty, boring story, plain and simple no matter how many planets mr mary sue breaks with atomic farts.
I know that sounds crazy but that's just how crazy I am.
Those whole "would the hulk beat spider man" arguments are pointless on so many levels.
Cause you know that's what the show/comic is about.
Not how strong the character is but the story that is being told and if how strong the main character is is all the story there is then it's a shitty, boring story, plain and simple no matter how many planets mr mary sue breaks with atomic farts.
I know that sounds crazy but that's just how crazy I am.
Those whole "would the hulk beat spider man" arguments are pointless on so many levels.
I for one will back this up. Haruhi can kick ass while not even lifting a finger.ms_sunlight said:
But, yeah, I think Goku can destroy Naruto anytime.
Okay, fair enough. I do think however that Yuki Nagato would think that it was dangerous for Haruhi to find out about extraterrestrials like Goku, so the Data Entity would re-write history so he didn't exist any more, or at least that he didn't come to Earth. So Haruhi, however indirectly, would still be the unknowing winner.Asita said:
If you won't go for that one, I reckon I can make a case for Sasami Masaki Jurai!
This is a very good argument, but Goku has a teleportation move, so Superman couldn't fly him into shit. (Also, while GT sucked, I liked the ending)Ordinaryundone said:Goku isn't Deus Ex Machina, beyond his ability to train so damn effectively. Why does he win all the fights then? Because he's the main character. Every fight is Goku's fight, that's the price of being the hero of the story. Besides, like you said, Gohan beat Cell. Trunks beat Frieza (in a REAL WTF moment, btw). He's not the only person who wins fights, he just happens to be the only person who can FIGHT in most fights. The majority of his friends are just too weak to hang with the big boys.RJ 17 said:The "problem" with Goku is that he is a 100% picture-perfect representation of a deus ex machina character. Everything after the death of Raditz is Goku saving the day one way or another. Nappa and Vegeta arrive and kick every's ass...then Goku shows up. Ginyus show up and kick everyone's ass...then Goku shows up. Freiza arrives and kicks everyone's ass...then Goku shows up. Androids arrive and kick everyone's ass...then Goku shows up. He then has a heart attack, allowing the androids to kick everyone's ass some more, then Cell shows upP). Cell kicks everyone's ass, then Goku shows up...and pushes Gohan to SSJ 2. And while Gohan does technically kill Cell, it is quite clear that his father gave him the energy he needed and, in one interpritation, was actually there to make it a ghost-father and son double Kamehame blast. Anyways, Buu shows up, kicks everyone's ass, then Goku shows up.
This isn't bad storytelling, it's just simple storytelling. Dragon Ball is about Goku, first and foremost. His journeys, his fights, his victories. And he's not going to lose, because he's the good guy and the main character. If you think that is DxM, you need to redefine your definition.
As for people who can beat Goku, plenty of the stronger anime characters. Atomsk from FLCL can move entire galaxies using his N.O. powers. Simon with Gurren Lagaan is able to THROW galaxies with its hands. Light Yagami could write Goku's name in a Death Note and kill him.
As for other genres, Superman could grab Goku and fly him into space. Goku can't breathe up there, so he loses. If he somehow can, Superman flies him into the sun. Ditto any other cosmic-level hero (who isn't team based like Green Lantern or Nova).
Assuming this isn't anime exclusive, I think Alex Mercer could possibly beat Goku, considering he can come back from a nuclear blast. At least Goku isn't invulnerable.
I think the Hulk could, but only because the Hulk is literally invincible.
Another possibility is One Piece's Fire-fist Ace. He can turn his entire body into flame, so Goku just wouldn't be able to hit him.
Of DBZ characters, of course Vegeta has the potential to defeat Goku, although he never does. Also, I like to think that somehow, some way, the Doctor could defeat Goku. Who said he had to do it with fighting?
I was gonna say that Goku beats anything forever, but then you posted this and I remembered that a weaker version of this punched another robot so hard he tore space itself and hit the other robot into another dimension. So instead I'm gonna go with these guys.Scarim Coral said:Good point but can Goku defeat this?
Ok assuming let say he just fight Simon/ Kamina or just Gurren Lagan, Goku would probably lose.
It is the size of 10 Million Light Years in height so Goku doesn't appear as a dot to it.
The fact they operate on the do "make the impossible possible" so in that logic they can define Goku logic (e.g. if Goku use the spirit bomb or Kamehameha, they make their drill and it would pierce the blast and into Goku himself).
It's been a while since I watched DBZ, but was Instant Transmission teleportation or just extremely fast movement? I remember Goku stating pretty specifically that it was him moving at the speed of light, which is still "movement" and thus couldn't break Superman's grip.Binnsyboy said:
It is officially teleportation. When Goku arrives back on Earth after the Freiza saga, he explains how instant transmission works. It involves breaking his body down into particles and that swarm of particles is what flies at the speed of light.Ordinaryundone said:
DanielBrown said:Wasn't all Dragon Balls on Earth lost afterVigilante 989 said:Though if the controlled people don't know where the dragon balls are to begin with they'd just die of an heart attack anyway.the Piccolo-God died?
Yeah, he did die, but someone else from Piccolo's planet went to Earth and became the new god. And the controlled people are going to know where the dragon balls are with the dragon ball locator.
No, he stated that the technique turned his body into particles of light that moved instantly to where he wanted to go. Why do you think he doesn't bust up walls every time he teleports inside a building? /nerdyeah!Ordinaryundone said:
There are so many characters that could destroy ssj3 Goku, anime or otherwise. Aside from Golden age superman and possibly modern supes, every other iteration of superman would destroy goku. I don't like Superman (I hate him, actually), but his feats are simply ridiculous. In terms of anime: Kami Tenchi, Dark Schneider, Lord of Nightmares, Chousin, Ideon. Just off the top of my head there, but all of those characters (and robot) would eliminate any canonical iteration of Goku with extremely little effort at full power.
Thats why I began to dislike DBZ by the the two buu saga's because (SPOILER) vegeta should of killed Buu with the sacrifice explosion (it was at the height of his character development and he did nothing) and Gohan's new found power and confidence (also the height of his character development) did nothing, Goku had to save the day once again.
I'd say that tyranids stand a pretty good chance, given their nature.Da Orky Man said:Half the fun of being a nerd is being able to do that. I've had long, intense arguments over which would win: A Super-Star Destroyer, or a Retribution-class Battleship.GrandmaFunk said:
The Super-Star Destroyer.
Retribution-class Battleship.
My money's on the Retribution.
I would say someone has an good chance at beating goku is Bellcross/age from heroic age they destroy planet sized ships without any trouble simply by ramming into it and the energy blast if not just as strong as goku's if not stronger, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann would easily beat goku no problem the thing alone is bigger then goku but bigger then a large scale galaxy its abilites are unmeasurable simple. As much as i love DBZ and goku and think hes awesome hes far from strongest anime character around i could name a whole list of characters stronger then him.