Anime is not a genra, and this is why. Enough uninformed hatred from both sides.

[Azure Sky]

So, after poking my head into one of the most recent anime threads, sifting through pages of flame, I finally decided to throw this out there and hopefully weed out some of the uninformed/unintelligent crap that gets thrown around.

Before we get started, lets clear something thing up.
'Anime' is a Stereotypical generalization of Animation that comes from Japan, nothing more, nothing less. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as people know the meaning of the word before throwing it around. It is not the spawn of Satan. It is not a 'Cartoon'. And it is not the Holy Grail descending on the wings of a Silver Chariot.

Now that is dealt with, lets move onto the meat of the topic.

There are two main 'Archetypical mediums' people quite often get confused about.

The first is Film, evolving from Theater, which started in the 1880s? and is one of the two most used methods for producing 'pictures on screen' productions, for the lack of better phrasing.

The other most used medium is Animation, which has been actively around since just after 1900, 1908ish maybe? but has been known to exist in forms such as primitive Zoetropes, which have been around since 180AD.

There is also the CGI medium that is more recent, but pure example of this are few and far between, so is not really counted amongst the other two, although it is quite often folded into Film itself. Toy Story and The Spirits Within are some better examples here.

Both Film and Animation contain various genras ans sub-genras. Both have titles that have cult followings. And both have conventions for both as a whole and for specific titles. In short, the only difference between Animation and Film is the medium it is set in.

That and Anime has giant Robots and Monsters, oh wait, so does film.

/endrant

Hopefully we can get some more intelligent discussions from now on, without it descending into silly flamewars? Please?

I suppose I should tack some discussion value to the end of this... What to do...
How about trying to bridge the gap by discussing the genra similarities between Animation and Film?

 

[BonsaiK]

"Genre" not "Genra". Just to spare other people from heckling you about it.

Anime are cartoons, because cartoon animations are cartoons, and Anime is cartoon animations. Objective fact.

Genre similarities between Anime and regular film are identical, more or less.

That's all. Didn't think we needed another one of these threads tbh. Couldn't this rant have been put in any of the existing threads?

 

[Sutter Cane]

Personally I have a bit of a problem with using the word cartoon to describe a serious dramatic piece of animation because of what the word cartoon implies, at least in the mind of the general public. To non animation buffs, the image the word cartoon implies is a comedic animated program intended for children. It causes people to not look at a piece of animation seriously, and I think that it further reinforces the animation age ghetto that is such a problem (ESPECIALLY in the west)

 

[Thaius]

Personally I have a bit of a problem with using the word cartoon to describe a serious dramatic piece of animation because of what the word cartoon implies, at least in the mind of the general public. To non animation buffs, the image the word cartoon implies is a comedic animated program intended for children. It causes people to not look at a piece of animation seriously, and I think that it further reinforces the animation age ghetto that is such a problem (ESPECIALLY in the west)

I love you.

You're exactly right. I can't tell you how many times I told people about Up's emotional first few minutes and got a reply, "But isn't it a cartoon?" It pisses me off to no end. This is why I like how Japan does their animation; they know they can tell serious stories with it and they do not even begin to hold back. Here in America it was a surprise many people still do not accept to see the fantastic Avatar: The Last Airbender be a kid-friendly but serious piece of animated television. And that's just sad.

 

[Xanar]

I've always thought about it like this - "Anime" and "Cartoons" are in the category of "Animation". They are not the same thing. Loony Toons should not be called anime, just as Clannad should not be called a cartoon. Think of it this way - Baldur's Gate is an RPG. Doom is an FPS. However, they are both in the category of "Games". Would you call Baldur's Gate an FPS? Of course not. Doom an RPG? Nope.

 

[Azure Sky]

"Genre" not "Genra". Just to spare other people from heckling you about it.

Anime are cartoons, because cartoon animations are cartoons, and Anime is cartoon animations. Objective fact.

Genre similarities between Anime and regular film are identical, more or less.

That's all. Didn't think we needed another one of these threads tbh. Couldn't this rant have been put in any of the existing threads?

They can heckle all they want, if they want to get off topic in that manner that is not my problem. =3

Cartoons are Animations, not the other way around, this is the misunderstanding I believe most people have.

I actually did drop a mini-rant into the thread I mentioned above, but decided against a full derail, which is what it would have been and just put it here where hopefully more people would see it in context.

Personally I have a bit of a problem with using the word cartoon to describe a serious dramatic piece of animation because of what the word cartoon implies, at least in the mind of the general public. To non animation buffs, the image the word cartoon implies is a comedic animated program intended for children. It causes people to not look at a piece of animation seriously, and I think that it further reinforces the animation age ghetto that is such a problem (ESPECIALLY in the west)

Agreed, this is one of the mine things that gets under my skin.
Especially when you try and call say... Ghost in the Shell a cartoon.
Not only would you be wrong, you would be insulting its near-genre perfect film relation, The Matrix. They are both an Adult Themed quasi-futuristic sci-fi fantasy. =3

 

[Atmos Duality]

I've never contested that Anime isn't animation; just that for something that claims to be animation so much of it lacks in the actual motion part.

 

[Azure Sky]

I've never contested that Anime isn't animation; just that for something that claims to be animation so much of it lacks in the actual motion part.

You know full well that the name comes from the creation style, not what happens on screen at any given point. =3

 

[jamesmax]

That and Anime has giant Robots and Monsters, oh wait, so does film.

i like how you used to thing that were form japan

 

[Bon_Clay]

Anime is what Japanese people use to refer to animation in general. People outside of Japan use it as a load word meaning animated stuff from Japan. The term means the same thing as what people use to use "Japanimation" for. So its actually a double loan word which is pretty cool, they just took the English word animation and shortened it, and then we took that and gave it a new meaning.

That's all I will ever use it for, people trying to apply it to other things seem weird to me. Yes things like Avatar are influenced by Anime, but they don't need to be called that. The word's connotations just mean its imported from Japan, not that it is of a higher quality than other animated things.

So in terms of genre the word is useless, and even style wise there are similarities but no rules set in stone and tons of style differences.

 

[cainx10a]

Personally I have a bit of a problem with using the word cartoon to describe a serious dramatic piece of animation because of what the word cartoon implies, at least in the mind of the general public. To non animation buffs, the image the word cartoon implies is a comedic animated program intended for children. It causes people to not look at a piece of animation seriously, and I think that it further reinforces the animation age ghetto that is such a problem (ESPECIALLY in the west)

I love you.

You're exactly right. I can't tell you how many times I told people about Up's emotional first few minutes and got a reply, "But isn't it a cartoon?" It pisses me off to no end. This is why I like how Japan does their animation; they know they can tell serious stories with it and they do not even begin to hold back. Here in America it was a surprise many people still do not accept to see the fantastic Avatar: The Last Airbender be a kid-friendly but serious piece of animated television. And that's just sad.

I believe I dismissed Avatar as being a subpar anime-wannabe-copycat for a while, after watching the first few episodes. All I see was a cartoony main character and stereotypical villain, and what seems to be the ultimate battle of good versus evil, a trope that I just can't digest these days to be honest.

Boy was I wrong. I think this is the same problem with Anime, you believe you have seen one piece of work, and you have seen all of them. I grew up watching mostly western cartoons, looney toons, and rugrats. Then when simpsons was the best thing to watch with the family, I was right there trying to not miss a single episode, same with family guy, and southpark. But at the end of the day, it didn't contain any epic storyline worth remembering. Guess it's a bit like how people complain about Anime being synonymous with Hentai (Animated Porn?) because of a random anime they watched with massive amount of jiggle effect, or massive amount of fan service.

For the record, Avatar: the last airbender is definitely the best piece of work from the western side of the animation spectrum and storytelling nonetheless, I grew to love the development of Zuko's character, and Katara's as well, first time to be honest, I have seen a female character that was so well developed, similarly to how I believe Gundam, Macross and Gurren Lagaan have the best piece of piece of animation and storytelling. Watching Sven Cal Bayan (Gundam Seed: Stargazer), stand coldly as his men slaughtered an entire camp of co-ordinators refugees, because of his superior questioning whether or not he could identify a co-ordinator as being a threat or not, was simply fascinating as you learn through flashbacks how he was trained to become this type of character).

You just don't see that in cartoons. While they both have their own merits for entertaining the viewers, they are just not in the same league. Sure, both side of the spectrum might consider anime/cartoon to be meant for children, but at least one side can caters to both.

// goes on to watch Gundam Victory > . >

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Anime are cartoons, because cartoon animations are cartoons, and Anime is cartoon animations. Objective fact.

Um, actually "cartoon" refers to drawings in news papers - you know, the funny pages. When animated versions of these were made, the term became fuzzy, but at it's heart the word "cartoon" refers to caricatures, or humorous drawings that exaggerate reality.

Hence why people associate the word 'cartoon' with silly, funny, or not serious.

That, I believe, is why anime fans find the word cartoon insulting - because of it's reference to cartoon as humorous drawings.

Garfield (for example) is a funny comic strip. Comparing Garfield to, say, Sponge Bob isn't particularly insulting to either. Comparing Garfield to, say, Neon Genesis Evangelion or Cowboy Bebop, is not only inaccurate, it is hard to see any similarity at all.

 

[Azure Sky]

That and Anime has giant Robots and Monsters, oh wait, so does film.

i like how you used to thing that were form japan

So? One of which was almost entirely Americanized.
Besides, Animation isn't Japan-centric either.

Anime is what Japanese people use to refer to animation in general. People outside of Japan use it as a load word meaning animated stuff from Japan. The term means the same thing as what people use to use "Japanimation" for. So its actually a double loan word which is pretty cool, they just took the English word animation and shortened it, and then we took that and gave it a new meaning.

That's all I will ever use it for, people trying to apply it to other things seem weird to me. Yes things like Avatar are influenced by Anime, but they don't need to be called that. The word's connotations just mean its imported from Japan, not that it is of a higher quality than other animated things.

Exactly, who cares what you as an individual call 'Anime' as long as you know what the name means, and where it comes from, and can respect what other people call anime just as you expect them to respect what you call anime as well.

 

[Azure Sky]

Anime are cartoons, because cartoon animations are cartoons, and Anime is cartoon animations. Objective fact.

Um, actually "cartoon" refers to drawings in news papers - you know, the funny pages. When animated versions of these were made, the term became fuzzy, but at it's heart the word "cartoon" refers to caricatures, or humorous drawings that exaggerate reality.

Hence why people associate the word 'cartoon' with silly, funny, or not serious.

That, I believe, is why anime fans find the word cartoon insulting - because of it's reference to cartoon as humorous drawings.

Garfield (for example) is a funny comic strip. Comparing Garfield to, say, Sponge Bob isn't particularly insulting to either. Comparing Garfield to, say, Neon Genesis Evangelion or Cowboy Bebop, is not only inaccurate, it is hard to see any similarity at all.

Nice pickup, I didn't actually think of non-animated angle in the OP.
*Thumbs up* =3

 

[OldRat]

Well, yeah. In the end, it's really just that, animation from Japan. But on the other hand, it's also quite a definitive thing, so having its own term for it won't hurt.

 

[Dogstile]

Wait, people actually thought anime was a genre?

People are silly.

 

[kickyourass]

I partially agree, it angers me to no end to hear people talk about Anime as if all of them are the same or they're just like western cartoons, and it SHOULD be recognized as it's own thing. BUT I think you're wrong when you say they aren't cartoons. Or at least I'd like to ask why you object so much to calling them cartoons. From where I sit, getting worked up over someone calling an anime a cartoon, is the same as getting worked up because someone called

Spoiler: one of these

a car.

 

[Atmos Duality]

You know full well that the name comes from the creation style, not what happens on screen at any given point. =3

Indeed.

To use a tortured metaphor, I'm just tired of people insisting that burnt toast (anime) is the highest cuisine there is.

I know that's a generalization, but most anime I've been subjected to is cheap, marketable trash that makes me feel stupid just for watching it.

 

[SenorNemo]

-snip-

Pfft, come on, we all know that Neon Genesis Evangelion is just Peanuts with monsters and robots

Seriously though, I'll use cartoon from time to time, but I agree that it has unfortunate connotations in America and a lot of the west, and if I'm discussing Japanese (or Russian) animation with somebody unsold on the medium, I'll stay away from using the word. It's also unfair to "cartoons," which can be quite good on their own terms. I've seen a number of brilliant Russian animations, for instance, that yet fit under the traditional conception of a cartoon.

That said, I agree with the OP. Anime is not a genre. It's not a medium either: it's just a term for animation that comes from Japanese studios and directors, with all its associated tropes and unique ways of approaching subject matters and the medium itself.

 

[Azure Sky]

You know full well that the name comes from the creation style, not what happens on screen at any given point. =3

Indeed.

To use a tortured metaphor, I'm just tired of people insisting that burnt toast (anime) is the highest cuisine there is.

I know that's a generalization, but most anime I've been subjected to is cheap, marketable trash that makes me feel stupid just for watching it.

The same for a rather uncomfortably large slice of Film.

Anime is far from burnt toast, but I will agree that it's no silver chariot.
That last line is kinda moot though as anime should be taken on an individual basis, same as film.

Example, I consider Ghost in the Shell as one of the best examples of what it can accomplish, many will disagree with me. I really don't like Naruto, many will disagree again.
Same as film, I think Harry Potter is garbage (I know it's not, but I still not my personal cup-o-tea) but I know many people will disagree with my opinion, and that's perfectly fine. Yet I think The Matrix is brilliant, people will again, disagree.

I really hate blanket stereotypical hatred/devotion on both sides. =(