Anthem reviews

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Lufia Erim

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CoCage said:
Oh look at that, another shitty EA game while whoring out whatever good talent they have left. Bioware ain't totally blameless, but I wouldn't be surprised if EA totally axed them. This is why I have not bought a game from them since 2011. Well there was that one time I bought Need for Speed Rivals: Complete Edition in 2015, but I got that on a sale for $30.
Look i'm all for EA hate. But what did EA actually do here? The concept is great.It the development team ( bioware) who failed to make a decent game. Nothing here looks cut up to sell for Microtransactions or DLC ( which they said would be free but i'll believe it when i see it).

All in all, this is a case of incompetent devs rather than greedy publisher.
 

Hades

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Lufia Erim said:
CoCage said:
Oh look at that, another shitty EA game while whoring out whatever good talent they have left. Bioware ain't totally blameless, but I wouldn't be surprised if EA totally axed them. This is why I have not bought a game from them since 2011. Well there was that one time I bought Need for Speed Rivals: Complete Edition in 2015, but I got that on a sale for $30.
Look i'm all for EA hate. But what did EA actually do here? The concept is great.It the development team ( bioware) who failed to make a decent game. Nothing here looks cut up to sell for Microtransactions or DLC ( which they said would be free but i'll believe it when i see it).

All in all, this is a case of incompetent devs rather than greedy publisher.
Is the concept great though? Its a Destiny clone in a world where Destiny has been somewhat discredited. Its certainly several years late to join that particular bandwagon. And EA might certainly have made a mistake in making Bioware create a game so far removed from their usual MO. Its a genre Bioware isn't well versed in and which Bioware fans won't get immediately hyped for as they would with a new Dragon age. If it turns out EA knowingly staked Bioware's existence on a game the studio wasn't suited for then that would certainly count as a mistake.
 

Hades

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Burnouts3s3 said:
I am... torn.

On the one hand, I can't deny that Anthem is a slog (especially when Faye tells you to do the Trials just to advance the main story), and the always online story just bogs the game down.

On the other hand, I've always appreciated Bioware trying to be inclusive and diverse-friendly. I like how they helped a lesbian couple get married. I like how they have representation in their games.

I just worry that the people criticizing Anthem (which it does deserve, don't misunderstand), don't end up scapegoating the people Bioware tries to appeal to.
Oh, that will certainly happen. To this day you have idiots pointing to the Andromada npc who(idiotically) told the player she was trans as her first piece of dialogue and use this as a symbol of all that was wrong with Andromada, which failed because it insisted on going ''full SJW''.

But I think its safe to say that the majority of people who aren't invested in this culture war nonsense will realize that the actual reason Andromada failed was because it was an unfinished, glitch filled mess.
 

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Here Comes Tomorrow said:
Worgen said:
Adam Jensen said:
Burnouts3s3 said:
I am... torn.

On the one hand, I can't deny that Anthem is a slog (especially when Faye tells you to do the Trials just to advance the main story), and the always online story just bogs the game down.

On the other hand, I've always appreciated Bioware trying to be inclusive and diverse-friendly. I like how they helped a lesbian couple get married. I like how they have representation in their games.

I just worry that the people criticizing Anthem (which it does deserve, don't misunderstand), don't end up scapegoating the people Bioware tries to appeal to.
But why are they trying to appeal to people in such a way? Why not simply make a good game?
I remember the time when developers tried to create good games without pandering to any specific demographic or sociopolitical ideology. You know, the time when games were meant to be a fun pastime.

And it's not like they're pandering because they care. It's just much easier to make people pay for microtransactions if you pretend to give a shit about things they based their entire identity around.
No, because pretty much all games pander to a certain audience. Its just that if its pandering to your audience then you probably wont notice it. I mean you probably don't see Duke Nukem as pandering but it sure as hell is.
I'm pretty sure most people are aware when they're being pandered to. I don't think anyone plays Senran Kagura because they force themselves to look past the fan service because the story is good.
Actually most people don't seem to, which is why you always hear them complain about having lgbt or female characters as pandering. They don't realize that Master Chief, Marcus Fenix, Kratos, etc etc are all pandering. They are just pandering to their tastes, so they don't notice it.

Games like Senran Kagura are something else I think. I suppose they can be considered pandering but... hmm. They are certainly created with the male gaze in mind but plenty of women enjoy them also. I don't know, I would need to think on games like that a bit more.
 

Something Amyss

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Dalisclock said:
And it is kinda sad when people will blame a game being bad and SJW just because it has a female PC or a gay person or whatever despite the flaws being pretty much unrelated.
Even worse when the studio has a history of doing just that in games for which it was critically acclaimed or popular with fans or even just sold well, but now, magically, it's the reason they failed.

Almost like there's some sort of confirmation bias.

Elfgore said:
EA seems to be anticipating about six million sales in six weeks, which seems really high.
I couldn't find those numbers. If that's what EA's predicting and they make that, then that's fine. BNut a reminder that Battlefield V failed to meet projections and it sold more than twice that. And over at Activision, the 500 million CoD made wasn't good enough. We've kind of been living in times where 6 million seems more like a disgraceful failure for a major IP, even a new one. So if that's what they're expecting, great. I don't know that it is, and it seems like a low bar for a company that was projecting huge things, but hey. It's their business.
 

Something Amyss

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Worgen said:
Games like Senran Kagura are something else I think. I suppose they can be considered pandering but... hmm. They are certainly created with the male gaze in mind but plenty of women enjoy them also. I don't know, I would need to think on games like that a bit more.
Here's the thing: Senran Kagura is absolutely pandering. Someone else likes this=/=it's not pandering to a specific audience.

There are a billion things out there that are cherished by the LGBT community, for example, that were clearly not created with us in mind on any level. They're almost certainly pandering to someone, but it ain't us.

Games have very specifically had this sort of relationship with women for a long time. Girls are allowed to come along for the ride on the Kratos power fantasy, but it's very clear you're not the target demo.
 

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CritialGaming said:
We saw this in Battlefield 5 too right? They put the handicapped woman on the cover and made it a big thing about how inclusive they were trying to be and people didn't react well to it because again it was forced and had no purpose. It was there for the sake of it and not for any character reason.
Except none of that is at the expense of writing. The only "writing" in multiplayer is in Grand Operations where it gives brief blurbs on the historical context.

If you want to look at the singleplayer, I'll say that I think Nordlys is among the weakest entries, both gameplay and storywise, but it has nothing to do with the plumbing of the protagonist.
 

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CritialGaming said:
We saw this in Battlefield 5 too right? They put the handicapped woman on the cover and made it a big thing about how inclusive they were trying to be and people didn't react well to it because again it was forced and had no purpose. It was there for the sake of it and not for any character reason.
I thought the lady on the cover was the Norwegian lady from the Sabotage mission, though honestly its so damn lens flare ridden it's hard to fucking tell.

As for the lady with the hook hand, considering she literally only appears in the one trailer that looks like a goddamn michael bay movie on meth(Adding Yakety Sax to the soundtrack would feel appropriate), it's hard to take it seriously that this is what's wrong with Battlefield V. Pretty much everything I've read about why people aren't terribly excited about it's really not that different then the last couple games, the campaign isn't anything special in terms of writing or spectacle and then there's the fact it released incomplete with entire campaign missions and modes(the Battle Royale mode) missing because fuck you I guess.

It still sold like 7 million fucking copies in 2018 despite it's problems, but EA doesn't consider that good enough.

I'll admit I'm not as well versed on BF as I am on the COD Franchise but honestly "Lady in Trailer" doesn't strike me as one of the series problems from what I have seen. Routine lack of give a shit about either effort or decent writing in the single player campaigns are reasons I tend to spend my money elsewhere. Bad Company 2 was more interesting in mocking MW2 while at the same time poorly aping it to be interesting and BF1 was a good idea with fairly boring execution(How did all this WW2 get in my WW1 game?). I'm done with WW2 games unless they're doing something new and interesting, which is why I declined BFV.
 

Lufia Erim

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Hades said:
Lufia Erim said:
CoCage said:
Oh look at that, another shitty EA game while whoring out whatever good talent they have left. Bioware ain't totally blameless, but I wouldn't be surprised if EA totally axed them. This is why I have not bought a game from them since 2011. Well there was that one time I bought Need for Speed Rivals: Complete Edition in 2015, but I got that on a sale for $30.
Look i'm all for EA hate. But what did EA actually do here? The concept is great.It the development team ( bioware) who failed to make a decent game. Nothing here looks cut up to sell for Microtransactions or DLC ( which they said would be free but i'll believe it when i see it).

All in all, this is a case of incompetent devs rather than greedy publisher.
Is the concept great though? Its a Destiny clone in a world where Destiny has been somewhat discredited. Its certainly several years late to join that particular bandwagon. And EA might certainly have made a mistake in making Bioware create a game so far removed from their usual MO. Its a genre Bioware isn't well versed in and which Bioware fans won't get immediately hyped for as they would with a new Dragon age. If it turns out EA knowingly staked Bioware's existence on a game the studio wasn't suited for then that would certainly count as a mistake.
Okay that's fair i guess. I'd however argue that, Anthem feels ( as far as combat goes) a lot like mass effect, but with an added flying mechanic ( which imo is well done).

Where it falls flat is definitely they story, characterization and world building and content. Things that Bioware is known for.

Not to mention the bugs and technical issues. I really feel Bioware are the ones to drop the ball on this one ,rather than EA.
 

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Lufia Erim said:
Hades said:
Lufia Erim said:
CoCage said:
Oh look at that, another shitty EA game while whoring out whatever good talent they have left. Bioware ain't totally blameless, but I wouldn't be surprised if EA totally axed them. This is why I have not bought a game from them since 2011. Well there was that one time I bought Need for Speed Rivals: Complete Edition in 2015, but I got that on a sale for $30.
Look i'm all for EA hate. But what did EA actually do here? The concept is great.It the development team ( bioware) who failed to make a decent game. Nothing here looks cut up to sell for Microtransactions or DLC ( which they said would be free but i'll believe it when i see it).

All in all, this is a case of incompetent devs rather than greedy publisher.
Is the concept great though? Its a Destiny clone in a world where Destiny has been somewhat discredited. Its certainly several years late to join that particular bandwagon. And EA might certainly have made a mistake in making Bioware create a game so far removed from their usual MO. Its a genre Bioware isn't well versed in and which Bioware fans won't get immediately hyped for as they would with a new Dragon age. If it turns out EA knowingly staked Bioware's existence on a game the studio wasn't suited for then that would certainly count as a mistake.
Okay that's fair i guess. I'd however argue that, Anthem feels ( as far as combat goes) a lot like mass effect, but with an added flying mechanic ( which imo is well done).

Where it falls flat is definitely they story, characterization and world building and content. Things that Bioware is known for.

Not to mention the bugs and technical issues. I really feel Bioware are the ones to drop the ball on this one ,rather than EA.
They both dropped the ball. The only thing that stays the same is that EA will act like it is not their fault.
 

Lufia Erim

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CoCage said:
Lufia Erim said:
Hades said:
Lufia Erim said:
CoCage said:
Oh look at that, another shitty EA game while whoring out whatever good talent they have left. Bioware ain't totally blameless, but I wouldn't be surprised if EA totally axed them. This is why I have not bought a game from them since 2011. Well there was that one time I bought Need for Speed Rivals: Complete Edition in 2015, but I got that on a sale for $30.
Look i'm all for EA hate. But what did EA actually do here? The concept is great.It the development team ( bioware) who failed to make a decent game. Nothing here looks cut up to sell for Microtransactions or DLC ( which they said would be free but i'll believe it when i see it).

All in all, this is a case of incompetent devs rather than greedy publisher.
Is the concept great though? Its a Destiny clone in a world where Destiny has been somewhat discredited. Its certainly several years late to join that particular bandwagon. And EA might certainly have made a mistake in making Bioware create a game so far removed from their usual MO. Its a genre Bioware isn't well versed in and which Bioware fans won't get immediately hyped for as they would with a new Dragon age. If it turns out EA knowingly staked Bioware's existence on a game the studio wasn't suited for then that would certainly count as a mistake.
Okay that's fair i guess. I'd however argue that, Anthem feels ( as far as combat goes) a lot like mass effect, but with an added flying mechanic ( which imo is well done).

Where it falls flat is definitely they story, characterization and world building and content. Things that Bioware is known for.

Not to mention the bugs and technical issues. I really feel Bioware are the ones to drop the ball on this one ,rather than EA.
They both dropped the ball. The only thing that stays the same is that EA will act like it is not their fault.
How though? Like, i can't believe i'm actually defending EA,but other than the crappy microtransactions (which while not exploitative, are trash) ,i don't see how they are at fault for any of this.

Maybe if you say that they made Bioware release the game before it was finished. But even then, They had 6 years.
 

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Lufia Erim said:
CoCage said:
Lufia Erim said:
Hades said:
Lufia Erim said:
CoCage said:
Oh look at that, another shitty EA game while whoring out whatever good talent they have left. Bioware ain't totally blameless, but I wouldn't be surprised if EA totally axed them. This is why I have not bought a game from them since 2011. Well there was that one time I bought Need for Speed Rivals: Complete Edition in 2015, but I got that on a sale for $30.
Look i'm all for EA hate. But what did EA actually do here? The concept is great.It the development team ( bioware) who failed to make a decent game. Nothing here looks cut up to sell for Microtransactions or DLC ( which they said would be free but i'll believe it when i see it).

All in all, this is a case of incompetent devs rather than greedy publisher.
Is the concept great though? Its a Destiny clone in a world where Destiny has been somewhat discredited. Its certainly several years late to join that particular bandwagon. And EA might certainly have made a mistake in making Bioware create a game so far removed from their usual MO. Its a genre Bioware isn't well versed in and which Bioware fans won't get immediately hyped for as they would with a new Dragon age. If it turns out EA knowingly staked Bioware's existence on a game the studio wasn't suited for then that would certainly count as a mistake.
Okay that's fair i guess. I'd however argue that, Anthem feels ( as far as combat goes) a lot like mass effect, but with an added flying mechanic ( which imo is well done).

Where it falls flat is definitely they story, characterization and world building and content. Things that Bioware is known for.

Not to mention the bugs and technical issues. I really feel Bioware are the ones to drop the ball on this one ,rather than EA.
They both dropped the ball. The only thing that stays the same is that EA will act like it is not their fault.
How though? Like, i can't believe i'm actually defending EA,but other than the crappy microtransactions (which while not exploitative, are trash) ,i don't see how they are at fault for any of this.

Maybe if you say that they made Bioware release the game before it was finished. But even then, They had 6 years.
How about the fact that EA is following a trend that is already waning or has better competitors. Or the fact that they're wasting Bioware's talents on something that is not the developers forte. Yes, I know of the production trouble and all that jazz. I already said they're both responsible. They wasted 6 years on something on a market that is already tapped out, and once again, EA won't learn from it. Bioware, might learn from this, I hope. Them losing high profile developers on their team was another issue too for Anthem.


I say all of this, and I am not even a fan of Bioware.
 

Something Amyss

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Lufia Erim said:
Maybe if you say that they made Bioware release the game before it was finished. But even then, They had 6 years.
Yeah, I seriously have trouble seeing a way out of the blame game for Bioware here. 6 years and they had trouble coming up with things like interesting weapons/skins/etc. 6 years and the game has so many massive issues and reportedly skimps on content.

I don't think EA is necessarily a good guy here, but I can't imagine this being something completely out of Bioware's control.
 

Gergar12_v1legacy

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For me, the tomb challenges weren't nearly as bad as they sounded, I was able to get them done in a few hours.

The loading screens got better with the update.

The guns looked all the same with a weapon model for each class in terms of unique models.

Strongholds felt like missions, missions felt like side quests, side quests felt like challenges and challenges felt like tasks.

4.5/10 on the angry joe scale where 5 is average instead of 7/10 is average.
 

Dalisclock

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Lufia Erim said:
Maybe if you say that they made Bioware release the game before it was finished. But even then, They had 6 years.
And this is coming a year or so after Mass Effect: Andromeda which had a 5 year development time and still had numerous issues, from animation to writing to just plain feeling not finished.

Two data points are not a pattern, per se, but they are showing a trend of poor design. It's very possible that EA is the one driving this from the top down but between those two examples, bioware can't be seen as blameless either.
 

Satinavian

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Something Amyss said:
Games have very specifically had this sort of relationship with women for a long time. Girls are allowed to come along for the ride on the Kratos power fantasy, but it's very clear you're not the target demo.
I wouldn't say "Games". There is a reason for all three Longest Jouneys, Portal, Remember Me, Beyond Good and Evil, Mirror's Edge and countless others have female leads. That has been the standard formula for puzzle RPGs for decades now and at least dominant for RPGs that not sold mainly for their fighting.

Not that "men fight, women solve the mysteries, riddles, acrobtic challanges and do journalist work" is that much better. (And it is good that is nowadays slowly vanishing)
 

Something Amyss

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Satinavian said:
I wouldn't say "Games".
I would, because I don't feel the need to #notallmen video games. Even among your list of games, not all of them are demonstrations of actually targeting women, because having a female lead doesn't make a game aimed at women.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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Worgen said:
No, because pretty much all games pander to a certain audience.
Creating a fun game with a specific audience in mind and pandering to that audience does not have to be the same thing.
 

CritialGaming

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Something Amyss said:
Games have very specifically had this sort of relationship with women for a long time. Girls are allowed to come along for the ride on the Kratos power fantasy, but it's very clear you're not the target demo.
So all the games that have female leads don't count? If you look at the course of gaming history and look at games driven by women versus driven by men, and you'll actually find very few games in which the female character is just "along for the ride". Most of the time it is because they are minor characters, there to give plot or exposition so that the game can focus on the player experience.

And the problem for the games that do have side characters that are "along for the ride" is that this is done for the sake of the game. You forget, you are telling an interactive story, which means anything you have a side character do is a task you are taking away from the player.

For an easy example of this look at The Order 1886, in this game you are Sir Galahad noble knight of the round table. As you progress through the game you have a female knight companion with you for a good portion of the game. However your AI partners actually end up doing very little of the work, they don't actually kill many (if any) of the bad guys, they don't unlock the doors for you, they essentially do nothing more than provide the player with character development chatter and plot hooks. This is because if the companions actually could do the work of progressing through the level for you, then that's less things you get to do as a player. If you could sit behind cover and let the game win itself for you because the AI companions are so good, then you lose purpose in playing the game.

These aren't films, so characters cannot be developed in the same way.

Call of Duty titles tend to blur this line a little better. Your AI partners will kill bad guys forever, and be pretty good at it too. But because the game requires the PLAYER to push forward, the AI folks are just ineffectual. It looks like they are putting in work, but really they don't matter.

And this goes on an on. Ellie in the Last of Us is the same. The player is the one who needs to get her through the game, because if Ellie could it herself, then the player has no reason to play. Really good games like TLoU will usually give you a section in which you can play as the "tag-along" character, allowing you to be a badass in their shoes for a time.

So what's the solution to this? Sure you could increase the usefulness of the tag-along character, but only so much can be done before you take away from the player which is something no game really should do. You never want the player feeling like the game could get along without them. Elizabeth from Bioshock Infinite, another tag along character that was little more than a tag along that could occasionally toss the player a refill of mana or ammo, or be the players personal portal slave. But again, Elizabeth on paper is a very powerful character and could potentially do everything the player does in Bio:I on her own, in doing so the need for a player is removed.

I also think that games tend to overdo it with female characters when they go for the staring spotlight.

Lara Croft in the new Tomb Raider trilogy for example. You see whenever media wants a badass female character, it is often so overdone that the character looses believably. Lara Croft is a badass who doesn't need anyone's help ever, because she is the ONLY one who can do whatever bullshit the game wants her to do. She has no interpersonal relationships to help the audience relate to her. They made her TOO independent, TOO tough, if that makes any sense in this context. It makes her a bad character because you have nothing to relate on her with. And to further dig her into a hole she has no redeemable personality to help make up for her other lacking relationships. She isn't witty, she isn't funny, she isn't particularly caring, nor does she have any real grand goal for herself, no aspirations, nothing. They made her so tough and so independent, that they forgot to flesh out anything else about her.

But too be fair, most of the male characters have the same problem. Most of the male main characters in games don't really have much to emotional connect with them either. Dante is a douche, Kratos is a mindless brute (in 1-3), WTF even IS Mario, Marcus is a walking murder bot, Issac Clark is a shell, on and on and on.

And Anthem is especially weak on that front. Neither the male or the female characters you can pick are anything but question machines there to make the NPC's tell you random bullshit. Nothing connects you to the person behind the camera.