Anti-Religious Sentiment in Video Games (have you noticed?)
- Thread starter Yeslek Ssomllur
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Video Games are art.
Art reflects life.
Developers have a right to inject whatever sentiments into a game that they deem appropriate.
If you don't like it, move to Iran and don't play games anymore.
Art reflects life.
Developers have a right to inject whatever sentiments into a game that they deem appropriate.
If you don't like it, move to Iran and don't play games anymore.
Halo sold more copies than Starcraft?Yeslek Ssomllur said:
And please explain Halo's Covenant and its relation to Judeo-Christian religion, I'd have no clue.
No, the Templar's manipulated everything, easiest way to control everyone was through religion, but that didn't make it the enemy. At least that's how I interpreted it.Julianking93 said:
Truth be told, a lot of atheists look out to smack religious people with their 'god doesn't exist' crap because they think it somehow serves as proof that they're intelligent, which with the way they arrogantly hold to their beliefs, no better than those I would consider a religious nut job I might add, actually serves as quite the contrary. Bible bashing is the new 'cool' trend.
Um... I'm not sure I see "The Covenant follow a false religion!" as a connection to Christianity. And really, that's all you have there.
Besides, what about things like the Ark as the safe haven from the Flood? If anything, there is Christian symbolism in Halo, though I'm not sure it's well-represented enough to form itself into much meaning. But the Covenant a mockery of Christianity just because it's religious and has a hierarchy? Really?
Anyway, it bugs me when it's blatant about it, but not many games are. Fantasy games with an evil God or whatever are fine even, as long as they don't go all "His Dark Materials" on us and present a hateful anti-religious message full of ignorant douchbaggery. The closest I've been to actually being offended is when Assassin's Creed suggested that Jesus performed his miracles by use of some random mystical object. Not sure if the sequel continues that since I haven't played it yet, but even then I loved Assassin's Creed.
Point is, I haven't seen any anti-religious sentiment in video games that even comes close to in some books and movies, or even regularly on this site.
Besides, what about things like the Ark as the safe haven from the Flood? If anything, there is Christian symbolism in Halo, though I'm not sure it's well-represented enough to form itself into much meaning. But the Covenant a mockery of Christianity just because it's religious and has a hierarchy? Really?
Anyway, it bugs me when it's blatant about it, but not many games are. Fantasy games with an evil God or whatever are fine even, as long as they don't go all "His Dark Materials" on us and present a hateful anti-religious message full of ignorant douchbaggery. The closest I've been to actually being offended is when Assassin's Creed suggested that Jesus performed his miracles by use of some random mystical object. Not sure if the sequel continues that since I haven't played it yet, but even then I loved Assassin's Creed.
Point is, I haven't seen any anti-religious sentiment in video games that even comes close to in some books and movies, or even regularly on this site.
Why does everything all of a sudden revolve around Christianity? Certainly Muslims or other religions can get pissed off too? To be frank (Hi Frank!), all religious fanatics that try to make things harder for others (except our cocks), that try and look down upon the world in a elitist manner can go eat a carrot. I believe in God I guess... to an extent. But I HATE organized religion. It is the scourge of humanity along with addictions, violence, and greed.Yeslek Ssomllur said:
Taking our video games away just because they piss off a minority is just another awful politically correct evil that plagues us all.
It is becoming a bit more prevalent - it's due to the fact that hyper-religious people would never play games in the first place. Somewhat religious people do play video-games, just.... not as much as people who are not as religious.
Many people in the videogame industry are hostile to the church, especially because of all the flak they got from the churches over violence in their games. They aren't necessarily anti-religion, as much as they are anti-church. I don't believe in any gods (don't really disbelieve in any gods either), but I'm happy for people to be religious, so long as they don't preach to me.
In Japan, there is a lot of lampooning of the church, since Christianity never took off over there. In England, the Church has really lost almost all of its power, as it as in most of Europe. It's only in South-USA and Bible-Belt USA (and Italy) that the Church retains the same amount of influence that it used to have 100 years ago.
And it's not just video-games. There is a general anti-church feeling that can be found in movies and books. I mean, you want to believe in God? Fine. But why should you entrust your thinking to old men with funny hats? What makes you think that the Pope is any more or less human than you are? He's just a man. If you want to follow your religion, follow how YOUR heart interprets the Bible/Torah/Koran, and not how some OTHER guy's heart interpreted it.
But yes, I have noticed it. It doesn't make me feel uncomfortable, since I'm not religious in the slightest. About 17-20% of Australians are atheists/agnostics and less than 9% of Australians go to church.
Many people in the videogame industry are hostile to the church, especially because of all the flak they got from the churches over violence in their games. They aren't necessarily anti-religion, as much as they are anti-church. I don't believe in any gods (don't really disbelieve in any gods either), but I'm happy for people to be religious, so long as they don't preach to me.
In Japan, there is a lot of lampooning of the church, since Christianity never took off over there. In England, the Church has really lost almost all of its power, as it as in most of Europe. It's only in South-USA and Bible-Belt USA (and Italy) that the Church retains the same amount of influence that it used to have 100 years ago.
And it's not just video-games. There is a general anti-church feeling that can be found in movies and books. I mean, you want to believe in God? Fine. But why should you entrust your thinking to old men with funny hats? What makes you think that the Pope is any more or less human than you are? He's just a man. If you want to follow your religion, follow how YOUR heart interprets the Bible/Torah/Koran, and not how some OTHER guy's heart interpreted it.
But yes, I have noticed it. It doesn't make me feel uncomfortable, since I'm not religious in the slightest. About 17-20% of Australians are atheists/agnostics and less than 9% of Australians go to church.
I recommend all the people in this thread who seem to think every religious group in every video game is some parody of Christianity, watch The Book of Eli. Imagine Carnegie as (your delusions of) the big, evil Christian empire, then draw parallels between his character and Elis'. That's all I'm gonna say.
I apologize if its been posted already, just skimmed the threads.
More often then not, at least in fantasy/sci-fi games religion can be portrayed as evil because of the way those worlds work. Games need huge powerful enemies, and there's not supposed to be anything that tops gods, and in these worlds there's no doubt about whether or not they exist because they make themselves known...whether it be through granting magic of having an avatar or what. Its just really easy to use as an antagonistic force, but doesn't really translate into them trying to say that real religion is evil...especially since the gods in the games are usually physically doing evil things, there's no secret message that the writers want you to be alert for Jesus summoning a meteor down or building crazy death machines in space.
Its just like how all the games that have you fighting government agencies aren't saying that you should become an anarchist. Again, its just great to use as an enemy group because it guarantees alot of numbers and a decent hierarchy for progressively harder enemies. Keep in mind though that there are just as many pro messages in games as there are anti. There's plenty of games with good religions, heck sometimes you're even fighting on the side of heaven. Usually with evil religions their rebelling against that game universes good religion anyway. I'm sure there are some games that do have an anti religion message in them, but I'd say they are part of a very small minority and the majority of the time developers just use them because they're easy.
More often then not, at least in fantasy/sci-fi games religion can be portrayed as evil because of the way those worlds work. Games need huge powerful enemies, and there's not supposed to be anything that tops gods, and in these worlds there's no doubt about whether or not they exist because they make themselves known...whether it be through granting magic of having an avatar or what. Its just really easy to use as an antagonistic force, but doesn't really translate into them trying to say that real religion is evil...especially since the gods in the games are usually physically doing evil things, there's no secret message that the writers want you to be alert for Jesus summoning a meteor down or building crazy death machines in space.
Its just like how all the games that have you fighting government agencies aren't saying that you should become an anarchist. Again, its just great to use as an enemy group because it guarantees alot of numbers and a decent hierarchy for progressively harder enemies. Keep in mind though that there are just as many pro messages in games as there are anti. There's plenty of games with good religions, heck sometimes you're even fighting on the side of heaven. Usually with evil religions their rebelling against that game universes good religion anyway. I'm sure there are some games that do have an anti religion message in them, but I'd say they are part of a very small minority and the majority of the time developers just use them because they're easy.
I am forced to direct you to the Catholic Church from ~800-1600 AD for the monetary issue (and even to a small degree today). And I feel the need to point out there are thousands, if not millions, of people who take the Christian Bible as Absolute Truth, regardless of any proof to the contrary.Kyuubi Fanatic said:
The point I'm struggling to get to is that Scientology is no worse than any other established religion, it's simply new enough that most people consider it a crazy cult (which, if what I've read is true, it is). If you're going to mock a religion, at least mock it for something that you don't share with its followers.
The extreme religionists have always attacked everyone else with their intolerance;
sometimes this has a backlash. Examples abound...
perhaps relatedly:
Anonymous vs. Scientologists
Has anyone linked to this yet?
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.228863-Man-pepper-sprays-Westboro-Protesters
sometimes this has a backlash. Examples abound...
perhaps relatedly:
Anonymous vs. Scientologists
Has anyone linked to this yet?
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.228863-Man-pepper-sprays-Westboro-Protesters
Sorry, no.Yeslek Ssomllur said:
Halo has NOT sold more copies than the Bible, man...
From Wiki
Halo's sold MAYBE 35 million copies.Wikipedia said:
It's not just in games, quite a lot of gamers lash out quite hatefully at religious themes in games too. For instance Ashley from Mass Effect believed in god, she wasn't a crazy religious nut or anything but she was also open about her faith.
People responded to this with anger and suddenly they had declared her a 'religious fanatical zealot who kills in the name of her god and hates aliens because she believes in humanities divine ascension'.
And all that started from her merely stating that she believes in god.
So in some respects, yes, gaming is quite the atheist dominated culture and the times when we try to add religious themes or characters are often met with unprecedented backlash.
It is true though that Halo at least seems to have a negative view of religious dogmatic societies given that the Covenant are heading down a deluded path of self destruction unknowingly. That said, my interpretation of the overarching idea is that the Covenant faith and some of their ideologies are essentially good and noble but that in their pursuit of the truth (and subsequent denial when they learn things that may question their old religious beliefs) turned them corrupt and even fanatical.
This eventually leads to a civil war when half the Covenant learn the truth and attempt to leave it. So in some respects I'm not sure if Halo is anti religion, after all there are a LOT of references to religious texts in the Halo canon, but it certainly doesn't put fanatical religious devotion in a positive light.
Still my point still stands, gaming just seems to be atheist dominated. So it often makes more sense to either depict religion as a negative quality or not feature it at all, because as Ashley demonstrates, you make a character who distrusts alien foreign powers because of bad family history and also make her believe in god to help cope with the idea of death, and people assume that she's some kind of bigoted human loving god nut extremist and make her out to be so much worse than she really is.
It is a problem and I think it needs to be addressed, the only problem is that in today's society it's kind of hard to straight facedly label religion as positive or needed in a world that is all based on reason and science and logic. So when we try we end up looking like we are endorsing it instead of merely not making it a negative thing.
People responded to this with anger and suddenly they had declared her a 'religious fanatical zealot who kills in the name of her god and hates aliens because she believes in humanities divine ascension'.
And all that started from her merely stating that she believes in god.
So in some respects, yes, gaming is quite the atheist dominated culture and the times when we try to add religious themes or characters are often met with unprecedented backlash.
It is true though that Halo at least seems to have a negative view of religious dogmatic societies given that the Covenant are heading down a deluded path of self destruction unknowingly. That said, my interpretation of the overarching idea is that the Covenant faith and some of their ideologies are essentially good and noble but that in their pursuit of the truth (and subsequent denial when they learn things that may question their old religious beliefs) turned them corrupt and even fanatical.
This eventually leads to a civil war when half the Covenant learn the truth and attempt to leave it. So in some respects I'm not sure if Halo is anti religion, after all there are a LOT of references to religious texts in the Halo canon, but it certainly doesn't put fanatical religious devotion in a positive light.
Still my point still stands, gaming just seems to be atheist dominated. So it often makes more sense to either depict religion as a negative quality or not feature it at all, because as Ashley demonstrates, you make a character who distrusts alien foreign powers because of bad family history and also make her believe in god to help cope with the idea of death, and people assume that she's some kind of bigoted human loving god nut extremist and make her out to be so much worse than she really is.
It is a problem and I think it needs to be addressed, the only problem is that in today's society it's kind of hard to straight facedly label religion as positive or needed in a world that is all based on reason and science and logic. So when we try we end up looking like we are endorsing it instead of merely not making it a negative thing.
From what I can see of the "attacks" on religion isn't more than that giving your antagonists and his mooks a backstory, or explanation of their actions and motivations (in the case of most of the game you mentioned), devotion to a religion dictates very much how you behave.
Seeing as I am agnostic, I don't really mind attacks on -religion-.
What I would have problems with would be attacks on people's ways of practicing or expressing their faith.
EVERYONE has faith in -something-, no matter what it is.
To make a mockery of it is a bit low, up until the point that if practicing this faith requires the harm of others, or breaking the law of the "host nation" in the game (This can be very hard to define), I'm more inclined to go "yeah- stop those bloody lawbreakers!".
Seeing as I am agnostic, I don't really mind attacks on -religion-.
What I would have problems with would be attacks on people's ways of practicing or expressing their faith.
EVERYONE has faith in -something-, no matter what it is.
To make a mockery of it is a bit low, up until the point that if practicing this faith requires the harm of others, or breaking the law of the "host nation" in the game (This can be very hard to define), I'm more inclined to go "yeah- stop those bloody lawbreakers!".
Everybody crying "video games are persecuting me!" is missing the fucking point, tenfold. If there's a strong religious overtone to a game, those same "persecuted" people wouldn't have shit to say beyond trite, pseudo-apologetic phrases such as "well, I don't think they should be pushing their religion in a game, but it is their right" (a right they won't protest, so long as the views of the developers coincide with their personal beliefs). It's grossly inconsistent, and I'll be damned if I'll let that kind of doublethink slide.
The only way one could consider Atheism being "forced" on others is if they consider Atheism to be a religion unto itself, and the problem here is that it isn't. The idea that Atheism is a doctrine (rather than a word that simply describes the rejection of all proposed theories of origin and existence, which is indisputably what "Atheist" actually means) is one that is perpetuated by religious people that want to discredit non-believers by making them out to be every bit the blind, clueless followers of faith that they are. Putting Atheists and Anti-theists in the same category is maliciously misleading, in the same way as saying "All Muslims are terrorists"; it's trying to render all opposition illegitimate by saying that everyone that holds a significantly different view is a total asshole, and you're just the poor victim trying to live a quiet life of righteousness.
The only way one could consider Atheism being "forced" on others is if they consider Atheism to be a religion unto itself, and the problem here is that it isn't. The idea that Atheism is a doctrine (rather than a word that simply describes the rejection of all proposed theories of origin and existence, which is indisputably what "Atheist" actually means) is one that is perpetuated by religious people that want to discredit non-believers by making them out to be every bit the blind, clueless followers of faith that they are. Putting Atheists and Anti-theists in the same category is maliciously misleading, in the same way as saying "All Muslims are terrorists"; it's trying to render all opposition illegitimate by saying that everyone that holds a significantly different view is a total asshole, and you're just the poor victim trying to live a quiet life of righteousness.
Now you don't look so dumb.
When telling any kind of story, you need to draw on understood or relate-able elements. If you start discussing the intricacies of say the life cycles of algae, you tend to loose the interest of your audience. Since the general populace is overwhelmingly religious, in one way or another, it makes sense that religion seems to crop up in games as subject matter.
Now as to the point of criticizing religion in video games, there could be plenty of reasons for this. For one, religion is based on faith and tends to be somewhat illogical and is therefore easy to poke fun at. This in turn lets the story have relate-able satire and comedy. Secondly if you have a conservative religious character, it ceases to become a major character trait and become irrelevant. If the character on the other hand, is over the top in one direction of the religious spectrum or another, he becomes easily identifiable, and again becomes comedy canon fodder.
Or it could be just some deep seeded hatred from the game designers for all matter that pertains to religion. Who knows?
Now as to the point of criticizing religion in video games, there could be plenty of reasons for this. For one, religion is based on faith and tends to be somewhat illogical and is therefore easy to poke fun at. This in turn lets the story have relate-able satire and comedy. Secondly if you have a conservative religious character, it ceases to become a major character trait and become irrelevant. If the character on the other hand, is over the top in one direction of the religious spectrum or another, he becomes easily identifiable, and again becomes comedy canon fodder.
Or it could be just some deep seeded hatred from the game designers for all matter that pertains to religion. Who knows?
