Any hope for RPG's ?

[i64ever]

I've been reading the forums at a variety of gaming sites every time a new, big budget RPG comes it. Every time, it gets slammed, usually before the trailer even comes out. Reading through the posts, it seems that the RPG community has a few simple requests in a game that the current producers illogically refuse to meet.

1) It has to have turn based combat. Anything even close to "twitch" is a travesty. Oh, but the combat should be so fun I can do it for hours at a time and not feel bored or like I'm grinding.

2) No railroading of any kind. I should have complete freedom to tackle only the challenges I want to face, and defeat those challenges in an almost infinite variety of ways. The computer should adjust to whatever strategy I choose to use. Oh, and adjust the rest of the world to show the consequence of whatever choice I made.

3)Despite that, the game should have an amazing story, as funny as Terry Pratchet, as exciting and original as Jim Butcher and as epic as JRR Tolkien. And that story should flow through the main quest and every side quest, each also being totally original, logical and fit the setting like a glove. Completely voice acted of course.

Yet do they listen to us? No! They keep making lousy game that do NONE of the above! Damn money grubbing video game industry! They'll never get it right!

 

[Sp3ratus]

Never listen to the roaring minority. Seriously, for every person posting his or her disapproval of upcoming titles, there are bound many others who don't post, let alone go on forums to post about games.

The games industry is just that, an industry today. Granted, that doesn't mean they should just spew shit games forward, but they have to make money and doing that means making the games that hits the biggest market for profit. If you look at the popular games of today, you'll see titles like CoD selling many copies, very fast, so naturally the developers try to aim for a similar fast-paced experience, to cash in on that market.

Having said all of the above doesn't mean I 100% approve of the deciding, i understand them, but I like well-made, solid games, preferably with some kind of coherent story.

As for countering your points, I'd like to bring in Dark Souls, Skyrim and Dragon Age 2. All three games are RPGs, but are all handled in vastly different ways, with vastly different stories. Skyrim, most of all counters all of your points(well, number 3 is still yet to be seen, but I like my chances for that game). There are still great games coming out, even if some of them are being catered to different people than they used to be. If you really are as tired of the industry as you state, I'd point you toward the indie side of gaming. That's where the innovation comes from today, because the people who make indie game don't spend millions on dollars on a single game and can actually afford to be more creative.

 

[DasDestroyer]

My sarcasm sense is tingling...
And if it is correct, then the true meaning of this post is to rant about the crazy requests of RPG fans. Am I on the right track?

 

[manythings]

My sarcasm sense is tingling...
And if it is correct, then the true meaning of this post is to rant about the crazy requests of RPG fans. Am I on the right track?

YOU SHOULD BE SERIOUS! ARGLE-BARGLE-DARGLE! PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE INDUSTRY! JARGLE! GAMES SHOULD ALWAYS BE EXACTLY WHAT I WANT BECAUSE I AM THE MOST PERFECTEST AND IMPORTANT PERSON IN THE WORLD OF GAMING AND IF THEY AREN'T IT'S NOT BECAUSE MY REQUIREMENTS ARE RETARDED IT'S BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS MADE OF GAY!

OT: Anyone bitching about RPGs is probably full of shit and, since too many fucking very different games are called RPGs, we can't really all get exactly what we want. I'm mostly just happy that I live in a world with BioWare. Your options are play or don't play. Vote with your wallet and, if enough people agree with you, the industy will change. If the game you so vehemently hate sells 10,000,000 copies, too bad.

 

[Continuity]

I've been reading the forums at a variety of gaming sites every time a new, big budget RPG comes it. Every time, it gets slammed, usually before the trailer even comes out. Reading through the posts, it seems that the RPG community has a few simple requests in a game that the current producers illogically refuse to meet.

1) It has to have turn based combat. Anything even close to "twitch" is a travesty. Oh, but the combat should be so fun I can do it for hours at a time and not feel bored or like I'm grinding.

2) No railroading of any kind. I should have complete freedom to tackle only the challenges I want to face, and defeat those challenges in an almost infinite variety of ways. The computer should adjust to whatever strategy I choose to use. Oh, and adjust the rest of the world to show the consequence of whatever choice I made.

3)Despite that, the game should have an amazing story, as funny as Terry Pratchet, as exciting and original as Jim Butcher and as epic as JRR Tolkien. And that story should flow through the main quest and every side quest, each also being totally original, logical and fit the setting like a glove. Completely voice acted of course.

Yet do they listen to us? No! They keep making lousy game that do NONE of the above! Damn money grubbing video game industry! They'll never get it right!

I know you said big budget but the are still great things going on in the low budget and indie sector. Check out iron tower studios and double bear productions for example.
RPG is to good a genre to go quietly into the night.

 

[omegawyrm]

I play and love a ton of RPGs, both Western and Japanese and it actually really irritates me how people go on about every RPG sucking.

Especially JRPGs, with Final Fantasy XIII last year, bitching about JRPGs became one of the most agreed upon topics in gaming.

 

[DasDestroyer]

YOU SHOULD BE SERIOUS! ARGLE-BARGLE-DARGLE! PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE INDUSTRY! JARGLE! GAMES SHOULD ALWAYS BE EXACTLY WHAT I WANT BECAUSE I AM THE MOST PERFECTEST AND IMPORTANT PERSON IN THE WORLD OF GAMING AND IF THEY AREN'T IT'S NOT BECAUSE MY REQUIREMENTS ARE RETARDED IT'S BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS MADE OF GAY!

OT: Anyone bitching about RPGs is probably full of shit and, since too many fucking very different games are called RPGs, we can't really all get exactly what we want. I'm mostly just happy that I live in a world with BioWare.

Y-you are Lord Inglip??

Spoiler

[/spoiler]

RPG is a really broad genre. There's point-and-click(Diablo), shooter-RPG(Fallout), turn-based RPG(Persona), etc. And if all of them fit into one big "perfect" image of an RPG, we'd be left with tons of unoriginal games.

 

[manythings]

YOU SHOULD BE SERIOUS! ARGLE-BARGLE-DARGLE! PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE INDUSTRY! JARGLE! GAMES SHOULD ALWAYS BE EXACTLY WHAT I WANT BECAUSE I AM THE MOST PERFECTEST AND IMPORTANT PERSON IN THE WORLD OF GAMING AND IF THEY AREN'T IT'S NOT BECAUSE MY REQUIREMENTS ARE RETARDED IT'S BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS MADE OF GAY!

OT: Anyone bitching about RPGs is probably full of shit and, since too many fucking very different games are called RPGs, we can't really all get exactly what we want. I'm mostly just happy that I live in a world with BioWare.

Y-you are Lord Inglip??

Spoiler

[/spoiler]

RPG is a really broad genre. There's point-and-click(Diablo), shooter-RPG(Fallout), turn-based RPG(Persona), etc. And if all of them fit into one big "perfect" image of an RPG, we'd be left with tons of unoriginal games.[/quote]

I was mostly aiming for frothy-mouthed ass clown. I've basically had that first part spewed at me on several occasions because I don't like superfluous crafting screens and inventories that just eat up time I want to spend playing the game.

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

the key is to ignore the bitching of whiny, entitled children who will pan an otherwise excellent game for one or two minor flaws. i mean, if people want to constructively point out areas where a game can be improved, that's fine. but all too often a game is "total crap" because of some minor failing.

also, not everyone wants exactly the same things, and not everyone is bothered by the same flaws. f'rinstance, the bugginess in the Fallout games has never been more than a minor annoyance to me. yes, the games are so buggy they are unplayable unpatched, but they're so good otherwise, that i've always either lived with the bugs, or waited for the inevitable patch. but to some people, those games are utter shite due to those bugs. meh, que sera sera, de gustibus non est disputandem, etc.

 

[Chibz]

2) No railroading of any kind. I should have complete freedom to tackle only the challenges I want to face, and defeat those challenges in an almost infinite variety of ways. The computer should adjust to whatever strategy I choose to use. Oh, and adjust the rest of the world to show the consequence of whatever choice I made.

Here's a thought. In TT RPG's a good DM can railroad, but make it so you (the player) don't feel railroaded. Why can't big corporations manage the same thing?

 

[manythings]

My sarcasm sense is tingling...
And if it is correct, then the true meaning of this post is to rant about the crazy requests of RPG fans. Am I on the right track?

YOU SHOULD BE SERIOUS! ARGLE-BARGLE-DARGLE! PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE INDUSTRY! JARGLE! GAMES SHOULD ALWAYS BE EXACTLY WHAT I WANT BECAUSE I AM THE MOST PERFECTEST AND IMPORTANT PERSON IN THE WORLD OF GAMING AND IF THEY AREN'T IT'S NOT BECAUSE MY REQUIREMENTS ARE RETARDED IT'S BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS MADE OF GAY!

OT: Anyone bitching about RPGs is probably full of shit and, since too many fucking very different games are called RPGs, we can't really all get exactly what we want. I'm mostly just happy that I live in a world with BioWare. Your options are play or don't play. Vote with your wallet and, if enough people agree with you, the industy will change. If the game you so vehemently hate sells 10,000,000 copies, too bad.

Oi buddy stfu alright
Ill enjoy whatever the fck I want. I happen to like turn based combat in an rpg and I play rts. So its not due to lack of mechanical skill. Im guessing your bitching about people bitching about the functions in DAO2 people who prefer a baldurs gate approach? Well guess what they prefer that because ITS A BLOODY BETTER GAME!

Or, it's actually really, REALLY similar and people like you just can't admit combat in a game doesn't need to glacial to be tactical. Better is subjective, making combat fancier and faster doesn't make it less pure.

 

[MaxFF7]

Okay there's a major problem with your requests. Number 2 and 3 run counter to each other. The more freedom you give the player the harder it is to make the a good story that still holds up regardless of the player choice. You want the story to be as epic as lord of the rings, but in order to deal with all the player choices it would require writing Lord of the Rings multiple times, to deal with the different situations.

I really think all three of your suggestions are great, but getting number 2 and 3 into the same game is going to be pretty much impossible, not simple as you state.

 

[Manchubot]

Some classic formula elements are great, and I can get behind all sorts of rpgs (my psp library would attest to this.) but they do need to change some things here and there. One of my favorite rpg battle systems was Valkyria Chronicles a combination of real time and turned base and it worked really well. A really fun battle system was also in the Tales games and those are not turn based and many rpg gamers would agree with me. If all rpgs had the exact same game play elements then sometimes the tedium and lack of variety cannot be saved by a good story.

 

[linwolf]

2) No railroading of any kind. I should have complete freedom to tackle only the challenges I want to face, and defeat those challenges in an almost infinite variety of ways. The computer should adjust to whatever strategy I choose to use. Oh, and adjust the rest of the world to show the consequence of whatever choice I made.

Here's a thought. In TT RPG's a good DM can railroad, but make it so you (the player) don't feel railroaded. Why can't big corporations manage the same thing?

Because a DM have about 5 people he has to satisfy, a corporation can have millions. That makes it way harder to make sure that everyone is happy.

 

[Zhukov]

Never listen to the roaring minority. Seriously, for every person posting his or her disapproval of upcoming titles, there are bound many others who don't post, let alone go on forums to post about games.

Took the words right out of my mouth. There is an extremely noisy minority at work here.

For example, take a moment to observe all those people claiming that Bioware ruined Mass Effect forever with the changes in the sequel.

Now compare the sales figures and reviews of ME1 and ME2.

Yeah.

 

[linwolf]

My sarcasm sense is tingling...
And if it is correct, then the true meaning of this post is to rant about the crazy requests of RPG fans. Am I on the right track?

YOU SHOULD BE SERIOUS! ARGLE-BARGLE-DARGLE! PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE INDUSTRY! JARGLE! GAMES SHOULD ALWAYS BE EXACTLY WHAT I WANT BECAUSE I AM THE MOST PERFECTEST AND IMPORTANT PERSON IN THE WORLD OF GAMING AND IF THEY AREN'T IT'S NOT BECAUSE MY REQUIREMENTS ARE RETARDED IT'S BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS MADE OF GAY!

OT: Anyone bitching about RPGs is probably full of shit and, since too many fucking very different games are called RPGs, we can't really all get exactly what we want. I'm mostly just happy that I live in a world with BioWare. Your options are play or don't play. Vote with your wallet and, if enough people agree with you, the industy will change. If the game you so vehemently hate sells 10,000,000 copies, too bad.

Oi buddy stfu alright
Ill enjoy whatever the fck I want. I happen to like turn based combat in an rpg and I play rts. So its not due to lack of mechanical skill. Im guessing your bitching about people bitching about the functions in DAO2 people who prefer a baldurs gate approach? Well guess what they prefer that because ITS A BLOODY BETTER GAME!

Or, it's actually really, REALLY similar and people like you just can't admit combat in a game doesn't need to glacial to be tactical. Better is subjective, making combat fancier and faster doesn't make it less pure.

No but some people prefer other things, DA:O was closer to the old game that anything in a long time and a lot of people really liked that. But because an other group prefer action and was way vocal about it. Bioware decided to change the combat of the second game. Of course people who was happy to see good tactical combat return will dislike it taken away from them again. On the other hand is the people how like the more fast combat, these people have tons of game that fit this formula but they couldn't let a single game stay on the old road they complain that DA:O was to hard and boring and in the end won. And this way RPG became a little more bland and lost a little of it's soul.

 

[Merkavar]

1) It has to have turn based combat.

2) No railroading of any kind.

3)Despite that, the game should have an amazing story,

i would hate a forced turnbased rpg. i like the witcher that wasnt turnbased. the closest i would want to get to turn based is dragon age when you can pause the game mid combat if you want and set up your parties next attack.

Rail roading can be good and bad. i dont care either way, as long as it doesnt affect the enjoyment of the game.

Yes all rpgs should aim to have an amazing story.

 

[manythings]

My sarcasm sense is tingling...
And if it is correct, then the true meaning of this post is to rant about the crazy requests of RPG fans. Am I on the right track?

YOU SHOULD BE SERIOUS! ARGLE-BARGLE-DARGLE! PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE INDUSTRY! JARGLE! GAMES SHOULD ALWAYS BE EXACTLY WHAT I WANT BECAUSE I AM THE MOST PERFECTEST AND IMPORTANT PERSON IN THE WORLD OF GAMING AND IF THEY AREN'T IT'S NOT BECAUSE MY REQUIREMENTS ARE RETARDED IT'S BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS MADE OF GAY!

OT: Anyone bitching about RPGs is probably full of shit and, since too many fucking very different games are called RPGs, we can't really all get exactly what we want. I'm mostly just happy that I live in a world with BioWare. Your options are play or don't play. Vote with your wallet and, if enough people agree with you, the industy will change. If the game you so vehemently hate sells 10,000,000 copies, too bad.

Oi buddy stfu alright
Ill enjoy whatever the fck I want. I happen to like turn based combat in an rpg and I play rts. So its not due to lack of mechanical skill. Im guessing your bitching about people bitching about the functions in DAO2 people who prefer a baldurs gate approach? Well guess what they prefer that because ITS A BLOODY BETTER GAME!

Or, it's actually really, REALLY similar and people like you just can't admit combat in a game doesn't need to glacial to be tactical. Better is subjective, making combat fancier and faster doesn't make it less pure.

No but some people prefer other things, DA:O was closer to the old game that anything in a long time and a lot of people really liked that. But because an other group prefer action and was way vocal about it. Bioware decided to change the combat of the second game. Of course people who was happy to see good tactical combat return will dislike it taken away from them again. On the other hand is the people how like the more fast combat, these people have tons of game that fit this formula but they couldn't let a single game stay on the old road they complain that DA:O was to hard and boring and in the end won. And this way RPG became a little more bland and lost a little of it's soul.

Or, the combat has all the exact same hallmarks you're just doing exactly the same thing purists always do, "It's being changed and now it's ruined forever and ever and I'll never actually play it or give it a chance because it'll never be as good as when combat was really slow and actually played out the exact same way!"