Any stubborn anti-fighting game players out there?

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I think the thing about fighting games is that they aren't really up to par with the gameplay depth provided by other genres, but they're still compared as equal to those other genres. I've played plenty before, even own a few of the classics, but I'm fairly anti-fighting.

Memorizing combos on a 2d or semi-3d plane is basically all you got. It's a system that can be fun for a bit but gets shallow quickly. Fighting games generally have a similar level of depth to racing, puzzle, or on rails shooting games. They can be fun, but they're mostly built on one core mechanic and how much you can master that one mechanic. This is partly why games like Super Smash Bros or Mario Kart sell really well for their genre, because there's more to them than something that feels like it should have cost 50 cents at an arcade.

And before someone says "depth? lol. what about shooters?" at least in shooters you have a sense of immersion and spatial awareness, which are more far important than you may think. Fighting games can certainly be fun (especially with friends), but the fighting genre just isn't usually on the same level as other games. There isn't much beyond a single mechanic.

You seem to have a lot of misinformation right up there.


First and foremost, I don't know what fighting games you've been playing but any half-way-decent fighter made in the last 10 or so years has infinite more depth when played on a high level than any current shooter. You talk about spatial awareness? How about being aware of that, all of your extremities, the way your extremities shift in fractions of a second and using all this information to decide what series of button presses to input, all in under half a second. This is the experience of playing a fighting game and you can't really comprehend it if you deem it inferior to those other genres.



Combos are just a fraction of the game btw. Combos are the moves you do AFTER having connected the initiating hit. How to do that, then which combo to do, all depending on spacing and timing and a thousand other factos, all shifting depending on your game-plan and there always being space for just a bit more improvement...you can't really surpass that in any other gaming genre out there.

 

[Grabbin Keelz]

Double post, scroll down a bit further.

 

[Just_A_Glitch]

I loved Blaz Blue, finished the single player with about 3 characters now, am still yet to play it with a friend though.

Blazblue: Continuum Shift is still my favorite fighter, next to Smash Bros. Melee (which I do count. I know a lot of people don't). So much so, I bought the custom arcade stick for the game (which in the end, has kind of sucked because the button layout is so different from other fight sticks. Always have to customize my controls. But I've got a badass design on it!). Unfortunately, all my friends moved on to Marvel vs. Capcom 3, so to keep with them, I did too. Haven't popped in BB is so long now. My Hakumen is probably so shitty now!

And I don't even want to think about how bad my Jin would be...

 

[sumanoskae]

Has anyone else noticed, that whenever someone claims to have gripes with a genre, they just point out the most basic strategy for use against the lowest CPU difficulty setting and claim that it ruins the game because it's all they have to do?.

I'm not big on Fighting games either, for another reason, they're only really fun when you're winning. Gripe I have with pretty much every competitive game.

But there are exceptions and the new MK is one of them, as you stated, the game has enough variety, attitude accessibility to make it fun for anyone. I'd say, first, school the fuck out of them by showing them the most complex strategy you know of, then play with them through a co-op arcade on easy or beginner mode(Quit when you get to Goro/Kintaro and Shao Khan, because they are bullshit and should be shunned and ignored). Show them some fatalities and let them pwn some NPC's and dare them not to have fun

 

[Grabbin Keelz]

How to do that, then which combo to do, all depending on spacing and timing and a thousand other factors, all shifting depending on your game-plan and there always being space for just a bit more improvement...you can't really surpass that in any other gaming genre out there.

That's called striving for perfection. You can find it in shooters, fighters, racers, Guitar Hero, and pretty much any game with competition. What Hobonicus is looking for is depth, which is something that fighting games definitely do not have.

I don't know what fighting games you've been playing but any half-way-decent fighter made in the last 10 or so years has infinite more depth when played on a high level than any current shooter.

By 'high level' do you mean when the opponents are tougher to beat? Because all the games I mentioned above has that too.

The thing that I disliked most about fighting games was that you were always in a confined space with no space to move around. I liked Smash bros. because there was a good bit of platforming and silly things you could throw at each other.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

How to do that, then which combo to do, all depending on spacing and timing and a thousand other factors, all shifting depending on your game-plan and there always being space for just a bit more improvement...you can't really surpass that in any other gaming genre out there.

That's called striving for perfection. You can find it in shooters, fighters, racers, Guitar Hero, and pretty much any game with competition. What Hobonicus is looking for is depth, which is something that fighting games definitely do not have.

I don't know what fighting games you've been playing but any half-way-decent fighter made in the last 10 or so years has infinite more depth when played on a high level than any current shooter.

By 'high level' do you mean when the opponents are tougher to beat? Because all the games I mentioned above has that too.

The thing that I disliked most about fighting games was that you were always in a confined space with no space to move around. I liked Smash bros. because there was a good bit of platforming and silly things you could throw at each other.

Striving for perfection is a general attitude, what I described above is basic stuff people do when playing fighting games correctly.


"High level" means wayyy beyond anything the CPU/AI can do. It means reading your foe's mind and thinking ahead, taking into consideration factors that are normally irrelavant. (such as the effect that momentum has while someone is rolling after being knocked down, enabling you to slide under them and mix them up) It refers to when humans face each-other after being intimately familiar with everything basic and ordinary about the game, including but not consisting entirely of: combos, doing moves, remembering everything there is to know and having relative mastery of everything they wish to be able to do.

 

[yndsu]

I have never cared for the fighting games.
Dont really get them and the cant be asked to work out the controlls
so that i woulnt be just button-smashing.

 

[Grabbin Keelz]

Striving for perfection is a general attitude, what I described above is basic stuff people do when playing fighting games correctly.

"High level" means wayyy beyond anything the CPU/AI can do. It means reading your foe's mind and thinking ahead, taking into consideration factors that are normally irrelavant. (such as the effect that momentum has while someone is rolling after being knocked down, enabling you to slide under them and mix them up) It refers to when humans face each-other after being intimately familiar with everything basic and ordinary about the game, including but not consisting entirely of: combos, doing moves, remembering everything there is to know and having relative mastery of everything they wish to be able to do.

Alright, I can dig this.

In a shooter I can organize with other teammates where to attack and when. When in a fight I can tell how much ammo my opponent is using, how much damage I'll take from it, and when he'll have to reload, giving me an opportunity to strike. When they go for cover, I can find an ambush point on the other end and wait for them to go around and hit them right in their blind spot.

This doesn't just apply to fighting games, it applies to all competitive games in general. Also, I like to think that I'm playing a game correctly when I'm having fun playing it.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Striving for perfection is a general attitude, what I described above is basic stuff people do when playing fighting games correctly.

"High level" means wayyy beyond anything the CPU/AI can do. It means reading your foe's mind and thinking ahead, taking into consideration factors that are normally irrelavant. (such as the effect that momentum has while someone is rolling after being knocked down, enabling you to slide under them and mix them up) It refers to when humans face each-other after being intimately familiar with everything basic and ordinary about the game, including but not consisting entirely of: combos, doing moves, remembering everything there is to know and having relative mastery of everything they wish to be able to do.

Alright, I can dig this.

In a shooter I can organize with other teammates where to attack and when. When in a fight I can tell how much ammo my opponent is using, how much damage I'll take from it, and when he'll have to reload, giving me an opportunity to strike. When they go for cover, I can find an ambush point on the other end and wait for them to go around and hit them right in their blind spot.

This doesn't just apply to fighting games, it applies to all competitive games in general. Also, I like to think that I'm playing a game correctly when I'm having fun playing it.

What you're describing is highly imprecise by comparison. I'm talking about having one sixtieth of a second define success or failure here. Not simply having a general "I'm doing this now" thought in your mind.


Considering fun can be had in any number of unintended ways with the game, such as using the disk to play Frisbee or whatever (I once threw a bunch of disks like shuriken, it was quite fun ) I'd be weary of defining playing a game correctly as "any way of doing something which involves the game and is fun".

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Just show them Kung Lao's second fatality.

 

[cainx10a]

I only have a x360 gamepad, and the d-pad on it is awful. Arcade sticks are way too damn huge, so, yeah, I 'hate' fighting games in a way, since I can't play them that well.

 

[binvjoh]

Smash Bros. has ruined fighters for me by being too much fun.

Not that I play too many anyway, the PC scene isn't exactly full of them.

 

[lovest harding]

No matter the fighting game, it's still about combination moves. Moves I can't do. It takes forever to learn how to do fast enough to be effective in combat, and still, odds are, when fighting against a real person you won't be able to get the combination off. It's a waste to me.

Also, there's a huge difference in player ability. There are only three levels of ability that I've ever seen:
Know what you're doing and are too good to fight fairly against those with less ability.
Don't know what you're doing so you'll die a lot.
Don't know what you're doing, but can get damn lucky pushing a lot of buttons.

It's a plain skill game.
I don't like that. I like story driven games. I like games that can give me an edge even if I suck at them. I like fun games. And since I don't have fun studying button combinations and trying to pull them off before an opponent kills you, there's no reason to play against real people.

That's just how I feel.
I do have a few fighting games, but I only play by myself. xD

What do you mean "fairly"? What's unfair about dominating your foe as much as is appropriate considering your difference in skill?


What is the point of having an edge you did nothing to obtain anyways. Isn't it utterly meaningless when who you defeat could be defeated no matter what you did or how much you sucked. Doesn't it carry more meaning to know that you need to have skill to win, when you do in fact win?

My point is taking two people of random skill sets and pitting them against one another is unfair.
Example: Weight classes in wrestling. You don't pit a 250 pound man versus a 120 pound man. It's an unfair advantage.
I'm not saying it's a horrible thing or that fighting games are shit for allowing two completely different skill sets like that to fight against each other, I'm just saying that at the basis, when there's not match-making that pits like against like, it's unfair. One side can easily have such an advantage that only those who luck into a powerful move will stand a chance at winning.
Some people like that kind of challenge. Some people like winning with that kind of challenge. That's fine. To each his own.

But I don't like seeing a game over screen 100 times just because I don't have the appropriate skill set or ability to press XXYBAAB as fast as the game requires. I don't like missing out on the story because of that. I like a game to sit well at my own skill level. I don't find arbitrary kill numbers and difficult bosses with no discernible weakness (unless you've fought them 40 times learning new insights every time) to be great motivation in a game. I'd rather see an end then be forced into quitting due to frustration. That is who I am as a gamer.

I answered the original question (Why are fighting games so inaccessible?) by describing what I dislike about fighting games. Not what I think needs to change or what is wrong with them. Just why I feel they're inaccessible.

 

[kortin]

Fighting games are a thing of the past. Thats why they don't like them.

 

[hyzaku]

Honestly, fighting games are one of those genres that you either have a mind for it or you don't. Much like other strategy based gamesuzzle games, RTS, Adventure, Point and Clicks, SRPG, etc. Many genres require you to be able to think in a certain way in order to be anything more than passably decent at them.

I for instance am very good at most RPGs, puzzle games, and a few other types. However, I tend to be abysmal when it comes to RTS and fighting games. I still like playing RTS, but I just cannot switch between the micro and macro elements of most of them very well. I have a bad tendency of either focusing on my macro game and "teching up" and expanding or I get too focused on micromanagement of units and ignore my macro and end up falling behind in my economy or my tech. I've tried for years in various different RTS games and it is always the same issue. I cannot switch my focus between those game aspects on a whim, thus I have a skill cap that I cannot pass that sits far below what is considered "good."

Fighters are a bit different for me. I am simply horrid at combos. It is not so much the execution as it is seeing the opportunity. In general, I have difficulty with my prediction ability in fighters. I have fair reaction speed, but I cannot predict very well against such a fast paced environment. I can read patterns well enough, but any opponent that can vary their pattern will destroy me.

This stems from the way I think, I am A.D.D., and as a result I have issues with my ability to focus.

Consequently due to the way that I focus on things, and the general way that I think, I tend to excel when I can focus and plan based on a non-changing or predictable scenario.

I know several of my friends who have similar issues with certain genres. I have one friend who is absolutely horrid at any and all fighting games, but he solves puzzles in games like they are not even there. A different guy I know is amazing at fighters but can't grasp RTS's at all.

It really just boils down to the fact that everyone can't be good at everything.

 

[nukethetuna]

I avoid fighting games because I'm generally pretty bad at them.

Though, there was a time where I really enjoyed them... mostly the classic MK games, and this one gem for Playstation called Evil Zone that I really played a lot of. Honestly, if I had more friends who were interested in fighting games (or friends in general), I'd enjoy playing them more. Half of the experience is the trash talk and look of utter defeat your opponents have when you win! Online play just doesn't carry the same zing...

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

You know I never really thought about it, but the decline of fighting games pretty clearly coincided with the stupification of gaming. People can't be bothered to learn a fighting engine, or master a character's moveset, so they ignore some of the fantastic genre efforts we've seen over the last few years in favor of yet another "pull left trigger to aim, pull right trigger to shoot" snorefest.

Weak.

 

[Minky_man]

I like fighting games, for the most part, but two things always get in the way of me playing them.

1./ Since I own the game, I will obviously by default be slightly better at it than friends and theres nothing fun about going round a mates house and getting slaughtered time and time again without being able to do anything about it.

2./ When playing online, *I* get slaughtered by people who've played it for ages and have mastered the 2 deadly combo's (and there are only EVER two) for each character and have reaction speeds like Mortal Kombat 2 on the hardest difficulty.

Sure I get a kick out of playing against A.I but in the end playing an FPS deathmatch against 15 bots isn't all that fun in the long run and the same can be said about fighting games.
All in all I can't really pose a solution for myself so in the end I would rather step down and leave the genre to the players who have put the most time into it rather than stressing out about getting beaten time and time again. If I'm not personally having fun, what's the point in playing right?