Are all the gentlemen dead now?
- Thread starter VinnyKings
- Start date
Recommended Videos
I do concur! We must alert the village elders!FROGGEman2 said:
Yep, pretty much this. Women can't have it both ways: they can't be men's equals and yet also expect preferential treatment. OP, I sincerely doubt that you'd have posted this had it been a man being rude to another man. Chivalry is pointless and (in my opinion) offensive now that women are men's equals. To treat someone preferentially based upon nothing else than their gender is to assume that all members of that gender possess some quality which makes them deserving/in need of this treatment. It is to denigrate them to the position of a child, one who cannot bear the genuine unpleasant nature of the world and instead must live in a fantasy.Nunny said:
In all seriousness, I've lived of of the idea of being chivalrous, being rather kind, opening doors for girls, and even doing something as silly as going out hunting for a piece of paper that flew out the car door when the girl wasn't paying attention.
I still am that person, though as of recent, I guess too many issues have smacked me in the face like a basketball when I wasn't looking. Other men who happen to like them always glare at me, no matter how the situation goes (I swear I let my friend in, who's now my current roommate into my own work, and I had a guy glare at me for that, seriously, she's like a cousin to me, and everyone knows that).
Really I'm just getting sick and tired of being a gentlemen that's not an idiot or chauvinist, but it seems the harder I try, the more I get smacked in the face with a chair. I can tell you I'd still be trying to do this for the rest of my life. Why? Raised off the idea, sadly.
I still am that person, though as of recent, I guess too many issues have smacked me in the face like a basketball when I wasn't looking. Other men who happen to like them always glare at me, no matter how the situation goes (I swear I let my friend in, who's now my current roommate into my own work, and I had a guy glare at me for that, seriously, she's like a cousin to me, and everyone knows that).
Really I'm just getting sick and tired of being a gentlemen that's not an idiot or chauvinist, but it seems the harder I try, the more I get smacked in the face with a chair. I can tell you I'd still be trying to do this for the rest of my life. Why? Raised off the idea, sadly.
Chivalry died in 1415 at the Battle of Agincourt when the unwashed peasants figured out that it only took 3 of them to surround, knock over, and kill a knight. It is a dick move for that guy to insult her behind her back, if that?s what he did. If by gentlemen you mean the white knights then they aren?t dead and can?t die fast enough. I hate guys who always feel they have to defend any women like they are helpless little flowers and always take the girls side. 90% of the time they can?t find a girlfriend because they are such pussies and the other 10% end up being totally whipped. Just speaking from experience here and if I sound angry it?s because I?m sick of doughy little fuckers trying to start shit over a boob joke.
as a few people have said, you be a gent, you get passed over
i've a friend who is a perfect gent.
he's a great guy. very good natured, n not bad looking.
on nights he never pulls, just chats n thats it, the women just aint interested. when he does go on dates he always ends up staying in touch as friends. women he meets in our social circle, he ends up in the friendship zone instantly.
i just dont think women want a gent anymore
i've seen girls with men who hit them, cheat on them and they they stay with them and couldnt be more of a doormat to them if they tried.
ive seen female friends moan they want a nice guy, but always pass over a nice guy for Mr A*sehole
personally, ive been with so many girls who treat me like cr*p unless i act an a*sehole towards them.
you could draw a graph to show how my being nice is directly proportional to them becoming nasty hard work and demanding.
at the moment, im really lucky. my g/f is such a brilliant person, im good to her, shes good to me.
i buy her presents as surprises to please her, not because i feel i have to. (ie she never says "why havent you bought me flowers for a few weeks")
we respect eachother and the relationship feels balanced, n i feel lucky to be with her for many reasons but one of which is because i think respectful relationships are a an increasing rarity
PS, im not not saying respectful relationships are a rarity because of women.
i think its a two way street, i think there alot of men who are disrespectful of women, although i just dont have as much insight to it as i do of women being disrespectful to men.
i've a friend who is a perfect gent.
he's a great guy. very good natured, n not bad looking.
on nights he never pulls, just chats n thats it, the women just aint interested. when he does go on dates he always ends up staying in touch as friends. women he meets in our social circle, he ends up in the friendship zone instantly.
i just dont think women want a gent anymore
i've seen girls with men who hit them, cheat on them and they they stay with them and couldnt be more of a doormat to them if they tried.
ive seen female friends moan they want a nice guy, but always pass over a nice guy for Mr A*sehole
personally, ive been with so many girls who treat me like cr*p unless i act an a*sehole towards them.
you could draw a graph to show how my being nice is directly proportional to them becoming nasty hard work and demanding.
at the moment, im really lucky. my g/f is such a brilliant person, im good to her, shes good to me.
i buy her presents as surprises to please her, not because i feel i have to. (ie she never says "why havent you bought me flowers for a few weeks")
we respect eachother and the relationship feels balanced, n i feel lucky to be with her for many reasons but one of which is because i think respectful relationships are a an increasing rarity
PS, im not not saying respectful relationships are a rarity because of women.
i think its a two way street, i think there alot of men who are disrespectful of women, although i just dont have as much insight to it as i do of women being disrespectful to men.
A curiosity that this devolved into how men treat women.
The question was, are gentlemen dead. Being a gentleman consists of being mostly to polite to everyone, not just to females.
I hold open doors, I tend not to swear in front of people I don't know... I also mimic their attitudes and behaviors.
If I open a door and they don't say thanks, I simply never repeat the process for them. It's a matter of requiring equal respect.
I don't swear in front of anyone being some people in this day and age, are still offended by that. If I do swear I apologize and ask if they were uncomfortable with it. Same rules apply irrelevant of gender.
At the same time I am not an outstanding member of the community, I don't give up my seat on the train for the old person, why? Because I got there first.
Also, saw the question about who would you open the door for, who ever get's there first (and this is assuming I'm using the door).
The question was, are gentlemen dead. Being a gentleman consists of being mostly to polite to everyone, not just to females.
I hold open doors, I tend not to swear in front of people I don't know... I also mimic their attitudes and behaviors.
If I open a door and they don't say thanks, I simply never repeat the process for them. It's a matter of requiring equal respect.
I don't swear in front of anyone being some people in this day and age, are still offended by that. If I do swear I apologize and ask if they were uncomfortable with it. Same rules apply irrelevant of gender.
At the same time I am not an outstanding member of the community, I don't give up my seat on the train for the old person, why? Because I got there first.
Not really the right thing to do, your suffering for their lack of preparation and they don't learn anything from it.open trap said:
Also, saw the question about who would you open the door for, who ever get's there first (and this is assuming I'm using the door).
Gentlemen...Jedoro said:It's a TF2 joke, the Spy is often quoted by merely saying "Gentlemen," and always has a cigarette in his mouth, so the maker of the picture just shoved a ton in there.la-le-lu-li-lo said:I feel like I'm missing something here...lenneth said:^This.
Me, i act "gentlemanly" at first but if they're intolerable or otherwise arrogant then im a bit of an ass
also, there are gentlemen around, this pic proves it
I don't understand those pictures at allz. :[
OT: I find more and more situations at work with people like that, it's unfortunate but I can't see why you'd stick with a dick like that if not for a reason.
I am giving to play the Devil's Advocate here. Isn't it common human ambition to strive for the things that seem harder to get? Let me put this into context for you:
You are a teenage boy again (or still) and for the last few weeks this shy girl in class has been trying to make contact with you. It is obvious in the way she looks at you, the way she is always nice to you and ask you how you are and what your plans for the day are. She isn't exactly ugly or repulsive in any other way. She is just homely and rather shy, obviously uncertain about how to proceed. If you tried, you figure you could get together with her.
On the other hand, there's the cheerleader girl in your other class. She's smoking hot, outspoken and seems pretty experienced, she is also popular and seems to have contacts. She replies when you talk to her, but you aren't sure what to say exactly and can't figure out how to get her to *see you* and become interested in you.
Now reverse it, replace the homely girl with "geeky/nerdy guy" and the cheerleader with whatever stereotype of man is considered cool in your school.
I was a teenage girl myself not too long ago. We (meaning teenage girls) go for the "mean guys" because they promise a more exciting time. What you see as "abusive" is often protective (even if sometimes misdirected) and everyone likes to feel like they are being cared for, that's not just something that women do. They are cool, they have cool friends and they do cool things. Hooking up with that guy is infinitely cooler than the guy that holds open the door, let's you bypass him in the line at the food court and lends you his pencil in class. And face it, Girls talk to each other so we are not looking for another confidant in our boyfriend at least not initially. The classical stereotype in society still applies: Girls wants a guy who rocks their world to its' foundation. Not a boy who gently rucks it becuase he is afraid the girl might take offense ("Julia, I would sing a song under your window. But you might not like the lyrics, so I hum instead." GG, Romeo).
I have a few friends who is stuck in the "Eternal bestfriend"-trap (some of them with me, tough luck, eh?) when it comes to girls. The problem there, if you go on dates or similar, is that both parties have to actually show that they are interested in a romantic relationship from the start. "Taking it slow" and "Getting to know" the other person are sure ways to give off the vibes that you enjoy the other persons company, but only in a non-romantic way. Which triggers a similar response in the other person and once you reach a certain point, it is molded into friendship and not love. The book "The Game" might be horribly male chauvinistic in some respects, but it is also a documentation of how western society works when it comes to romance and sexuality.
This post is turning into a wall of text. As a conclusion, I want to say that Gentlemen does live (and as Bihac above pointed out, they should be gender-blind) and that's not the original problem as I percieve it, in this thread. The problem that has surfaced is the age old classic teenage syndrome of the girls going for the "mean guys" instead of the well-behaved boys.
I will end this with a question: Shouldn't a good behaviour and friendly attitude be a reward in its' own right? Or do you need the constant appreciation of others to feel as if being friendly is the right thing to do?
You are a teenage boy again (or still) and for the last few weeks this shy girl in class has been trying to make contact with you. It is obvious in the way she looks at you, the way she is always nice to you and ask you how you are and what your plans for the day are. She isn't exactly ugly or repulsive in any other way. She is just homely and rather shy, obviously uncertain about how to proceed. If you tried, you figure you could get together with her.
On the other hand, there's the cheerleader girl in your other class. She's smoking hot, outspoken and seems pretty experienced, she is also popular and seems to have contacts. She replies when you talk to her, but you aren't sure what to say exactly and can't figure out how to get her to *see you* and become interested in you.
Now reverse it, replace the homely girl with "geeky/nerdy guy" and the cheerleader with whatever stereotype of man is considered cool in your school.
I was a teenage girl myself not too long ago. We (meaning teenage girls) go for the "mean guys" because they promise a more exciting time. What you see as "abusive" is often protective (even if sometimes misdirected) and everyone likes to feel like they are being cared for, that's not just something that women do. They are cool, they have cool friends and they do cool things. Hooking up with that guy is infinitely cooler than the guy that holds open the door, let's you bypass him in the line at the food court and lends you his pencil in class. And face it, Girls talk to each other so we are not looking for another confidant in our boyfriend at least not initially. The classical stereotype in society still applies: Girls wants a guy who rocks their world to its' foundation. Not a boy who gently rucks it becuase he is afraid the girl might take offense ("Julia, I would sing a song under your window. But you might not like the lyrics, so I hum instead." GG, Romeo).
I have a few friends who is stuck in the "Eternal bestfriend"-trap (some of them with me, tough luck, eh?) when it comes to girls. The problem there, if you go on dates or similar, is that both parties have to actually show that they are interested in a romantic relationship from the start. "Taking it slow" and "Getting to know" the other person are sure ways to give off the vibes that you enjoy the other persons company, but only in a non-romantic way. Which triggers a similar response in the other person and once you reach a certain point, it is molded into friendship and not love. The book "The Game" might be horribly male chauvinistic in some respects, but it is also a documentation of how western society works when it comes to romance and sexuality.
This post is turning into a wall of text. As a conclusion, I want to say that Gentlemen does live (and as Bihac above pointed out, they should be gender-blind) and that's not the original problem as I percieve it, in this thread. The problem that has surfaced is the age old classic teenage syndrome of the girls going for the "mean guys" instead of the well-behaved boys.
I will end this with a question: Shouldn't a good behaviour and friendly attitude be a reward in its' own right? Or do you need the constant appreciation of others to feel as if being friendly is the right thing to do?
Well thought out and well said. I completele agree, however unfortunate it may be..Gethsemani said:
This in particular is very true. However, if what alot of people in the thread have said is true, they are not even getting the common courtesies (IE Thank you) when they are doing such things as opening doors for others. That itself is a little worrysome.
man ive had similar problems in the past, or women who only like me when im in a bad mood/grouchy mood/paying them no attention.Bastiat said:
just be pre-emptive, get rid of these women asap if u do date them, then your free n single for when you do eventually meet a girl who likes you for you.
a bit more on topic... which i realise in my last 2 posts, i've been a little off.
the gent probably is a dying breed, as i personally hold doors open less n less for strangers, as chances are i wont get so much as an acknowledgement in the society i live in.
That's the thesis I came to for what this topic's really about. If you feel like you're getting stomped on for being a nice person, maybe you should reevaluate who you are and what you think your role is. Or maybe you're living in a shithole and need to get the hell outta there.Gethsemani said:
To be a gentleman it shouldn't be a way to get into good graces (though it doesn't hurt to try... well, maybe it does), it should be ingrained into your personality. It should be a non-issue whether you get thanked/rewarded or not. You're just fooling yourself if you call yourself a "gentleman", and then feel like shit for not getting the props you think you deserve for being one.
I learned that the hard way myself, when it comes to girls, even by today's standards. When a girl asks you if you're gay (for the fact that you're not ogling her like every other guy in school), shit has just risen to another level of real.
Personally, I think the people who refer to themselves as "Gentlemen" are just putting themselves on a pedestal, and need to be knocked down a peg or two. I don't consider myself to be a Gentlemen, but I try to do a nice thing if it is convenient for me. For example, if I'm heading through a door and there is someone behind me I'll hold it open for them.
While there are some girls who believe they should be the same as or better than men, there are just as many that do not mind being pampered every once in a while. But it is basically the same as anything else: if you do something over and over again eventually people are going to get bored of it. I'm not saying you need to be a complete asshole (although that can often seem like the case), but think about it: if you are always a "Gentlemen" twenty-four/seven it is just going to be seen as normal.
The trick is to catch the woman off guard. Just be yourself around her - you want her to like YOU not some character you have created for her enjoyment - but surprise her every now and then with some romantic gesture. It's all about confidence: a lot of people here are going "No one's ever going to love me because I'm nice", and that's going to show when you are around girls. Also, don't be nice just because you want a girl to like you. That's called fake niceness, and girls can see right through that pretty quickly.
My advice would be to just be yourself. As I said before, you want the girl to like you so if she doesn't like you from the start she's not going to like you later on. If you like opening doors for people, and some girl calls you a sexist pig, just keep doing it, and hope the next girl appreciates it.
Oh one more thing: I kind of get the impression some people here believe because they have opened a door for a girl that girl should automatically be interested in them. If you open a door for someone, and they say thank you, try talking to them if you get the opportunity. Talk to them about what they except of whatever they've come to, or what they thought of whatever they've just seen/done.
Well that's my thoughts on the subject.
While there are some girls who believe they should be the same as or better than men, there are just as many that do not mind being pampered every once in a while. But it is basically the same as anything else: if you do something over and over again eventually people are going to get bored of it. I'm not saying you need to be a complete asshole (although that can often seem like the case), but think about it: if you are always a "Gentlemen" twenty-four/seven it is just going to be seen as normal.
The trick is to catch the woman off guard. Just be yourself around her - you want her to like YOU not some character you have created for her enjoyment - but surprise her every now and then with some romantic gesture. It's all about confidence: a lot of people here are going "No one's ever going to love me because I'm nice", and that's going to show when you are around girls. Also, don't be nice just because you want a girl to like you. That's called fake niceness, and girls can see right through that pretty quickly.
My advice would be to just be yourself. As I said before, you want the girl to like you so if she doesn't like you from the start she's not going to like you later on. If you like opening doors for people, and some girl calls you a sexist pig, just keep doing it, and hope the next girl appreciates it.
Oh one more thing: I kind of get the impression some people here believe because they have opened a door for a girl that girl should automatically be interested in them. If you open a door for someone, and they say thank you, try talking to them if you get the opportunity. Talk to them about what they except of whatever they've come to, or what they thought of whatever they've just seen/done.
Well that's my thoughts on the subject.
Firstly, that is a most interesting and informative reply, if only i had known that when i was 14 years old! Well, i'm 19 now, i'll be 20 in 8 months time, and it's only been in the last few years that i have finally understood the teenage dating playing field, now i'm looking into a different field, God knows what this one is like. o.0Gethsemani said:
"Experience is the comb that nature gives us when we are bald"- Belgian proverb
Now, to answer your question- friendship is a multi-way thing- friendship needs feedback of some sorts if its to mean anything. I don't mean that friendship should be rewarded with regular presents and stuff, friends should look out for eachother and care for one another, mutually helping and supporting eachother- it shows that the relationship is meaningfull.
On topic, i think gentleman culture is largelly dead. Two world wars, and the 1960's social revelution has sweped away 19th century ideals and attitudes. Some 19th century ideals i'm glad to see the back off, some of the changes that have occured have occured for the better, none the less, regretibly, we have lost some of the more positive aspects of that age. Most prominantly respect and courteous behaviour.
I would also like to point out that people seem to have related gentlemanly behaviour with the "nice guy" complex- i think there is a significant difference between the two, we need to sort out the gentlemen from the "nice guys".