Are any RTSs actually strategic?

[Meggiepants]

All games require strategy to beat. Button mashing is a strategy. Not a complex one of course, but a strategy. ...

No, button mashing is NOT a strategy. A strategy implies DELIBERATE thought to achieve a GOAL. Button mashing has no thought, does not establish any goals, achieves nothing, and the player mashing is either apathetic of the game, or doesn't know how to play said game. And if a player continues to mash, not only do they not improve, but also makes others that play with them worse players.

Button mashing is the opposite of strategy. It is random to even the player controlling the actions, has no goal, tactics, or adaptability to changing circumstances. It's like approaching a game of darts wearing a blindfold, after 10 shots of vodka, and throwing your darts at whatever makes noise. Even if you hit the bullseye, it was simply luck and had almost nothing to do with your intentions of making a bullseye save for throwing the dart in the first place. Saying that button mashing is a strategy clearly shows that you don't even understand what strategy means.

Though I agree with the rest of your statement, that one pissed me off a lot and was a major flaw in what you where trying to say.

Sorry to have pissed you off, but button mashing fits in your definition of what a strategy is. Unless, of course, you are accidentally mashing the buttons, I assume that when people are playing a game and they begin button mashing, it is because they have learned that in order to achieve the outcome they want, winning, they need to mash buttons.

I never said it was a very complicated strategy. But it still is a strategy. Spawn camping is a much hated strategy in games, but I don't think it requires much more thought than button mashing.

But again, I wasn't trying to insult RTS games in anyway. It's just that they word strategy can indeed incorporate button mashing.

 

[AgentNein]

I know this thread was done a while back but since then a bunch of new RTSs were released sooooo yeeeeaaaahhhhhhh....

Basicallyo any RTSs involve straegy? So far I think RUSE is the only one, please correct me if I am wrong.

Sorry, but this screams troll thread. I even gave you the benefit of the doubt, I read through this entire thing. Mostly you've ignored any legitimately thoughtful responses and fell back on your 'most RTS's best strategy is spamming' mantra. Not argument because you really haven't gone anywhere past that. When people point out that this really DOESN'T work when you're playing against skilled players (just like not worrying too much about every move doesn't work when playing against skilled chess players), you just say "I said MOST RTS's!".

Sorry, just not buying this.

 

[zhemis]

I'd like to think that button mashing isn't a strategy because each mash isn't thought out and planned. It simply follows the last mash.

I love how there's two definite schools of reply. Your multiplayer people and your single player people. Back when Starcraft 1 came out I was still connecting to local BBS in the area. I didn't play multiplayer. I played single player, and the very non thought out strategy (which I believe can't be considered strategy - 'non thought out') was to make alot of troops. That's not strategic at all. I think the level of strategy is being defended way beyond resonable.

Someone above said Sins of a Solar Empire. I'll give them that. I got wiped enough because I wasn't using my head and employing strategic plans.

Technically, you could put the 'strategic' label on alot of stupid bs stuff like button mashing but it's just ridiculous, imo.

Closing thoughts, idk which way is right... but starcraft fanboys always get my ire.

 

[DustyDrB]

I hate the RTS genre, but they (or all the ones I've tried) involve strategy. Just because the course is so blatantly obvious at times (expand, build resources, have units guarding key cities/structures, etc), doesn't mean it isn't still strategic.

 

[elvor0]

Lord of the Rings BFME2 community on the 360 was just mass and steamroll, I single-handedly threw in strategy with how I played as Isengard which involved covering chokepoints and paths with siege mines with a tower nearby. Where's your Attack Trolls now?!?!?

BFME2 was horribly inbalanced anyway, elves were fucking stupidly overpowered, those permantly stealthed archers that had really powerful attacks that knocked infanty over, along with elven heroes leveling faster, having ranged and could run faster than all melee, just broke the game for me.

 

[Kurt Horsting]

All games require strategy to beat. Button mashing is a strategy. Not a complex one of course, but a strategy. ...

No, button mashing is NOT a strategy. A strategy implies DELIBERATE thought to achieve a GOAL. Button mashing has no thought, does not establish any goals, achieves nothing, and the player mashing is either apathetic of the game, or doesn't know how to play said game. And if a player continues to mash, not only do they not improve, but also makes others that play with them worse players.

Button mashing is the opposite of strategy. It is random to even the player controlling the actions, has no goal, tactics, or adaptability to changing circumstances. It's like approaching a game of darts wearing a blindfold, after 10 shots of vodka, and throwing your darts at whatever makes noise. Even if you hit the bullseye, it was simply luck and had almost nothing to do with your intentions of making a bullseye save for throwing the dart in the first place. Saying that button mashing is a strategy clearly shows that you don't even understand what strategy means.

Though I agree with the rest of your statement, that one pissed me off a lot and was a major flaw in what you where trying to say.

Sorry to have pissed you off, but button mashing fits in your definition of what a strategy is. Unless, of course, you are accidentally mashing the buttons, I assume that when people are playing a game and they begin button mashing, it is because they have learned that in order to achieve the outcome they want, winning, they need to mash buttons.

I never said it was a very complicated strategy. But it still is a strategy. Spawn camping is a much hated strategy in games, but I don't think it requires much more thought than button mashing.

But again, I wasn't trying to insult RTS games in anyway. It's just that they word strategy can indeed incorporate button mashing.

Ok, I'm going to make another analogy to help you understand where I'm coming from. Lets say you are playing an fps on a pc. You see an enemy come at you, then you frantically mash every key on your keyboard without knowing what any of them do. <-- that is what mashing is. Mashing is just hitting all the buttons, regardless of their function, as fast as you can. Even if you kill the enemy, nothing you did was anything that you planned on, or anything that you had control of. AS I SAID, STRATEGY IS DELIBERATE THOUGHT TO ACHIEVE A GOAL!!! YOU CANNOT MASH DELIBERATELY!

Spawn camping =/= mashing because it actually sets up tactics to achieve a goal while understanding your controls. You get into a fortified position, to engage a point that the enemy has to come out of. You have to use map knowledge, and know what weapons/classes would do this effectively. IT IS DELIBERATE! YOU ARE PLANNING AHEAD (getting into a defensible position to attack people recently spawning) TO ACHIEVE A GOAL (harassing re-enforcements/ distracting the enemy team/ buying time for your team to accomplish map objectives)!

I come from a fighting game background, and whenever I see someone mash, I get pissed generally cause its obnoxious, and it shows apathy in my opponent. I would rather not play with people that don't care to understand the game that they are playing.

Mashing is randomness. There is no plan, there is no control, just buttons being hit and something coming out at random. Your response shows that you either still don't know what I mean by strategy, or you don't understand what mashing means.

 

[Tsunimo]

Naw.. most are just who can make more guys faster
i wish LoS in games were dependant on what way your guys were looking instead of a massive circle... then you could draw the enemy in and circle around them with another group of guys.
also, LoS should shrink while in forests or if there is an object in the way of the LoS.
I think putting in LoS features such as that would make RTS games much more dependant on strategy.

 

[Zechnophobe]

Anyone find a goal post around here? I could have sworn it was nearby. It had a big bright 'what is strategy?' sticker on it.

 

[nick_knack]

TOTAL WAR.

Actually, Total War has little to no strategy. Its pretty much all tactics.

 

[ThatJoelGuy]

Every game requires strategic thinking.

Most RTSs are just spam units.

That's a strategy.

Lol what he said

 

[Daffy F]

Well it SHOULD involve strategy... Whether of not it does is totally down to whoever is playing.

 

[DYin01]

I'm not sure if I'm the first to ask this but... Define ''strategic''?