Are any RTSs actually strategic?

[Judgement101]

I know this thread was done a while back but since then a bunch of new RTSs were released sooooo yeeeeaaaahhhhhhh....

Basicallyo any RTSs involve straegy? So far I think RUSE is the only one, please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[viranimus]

Empire total war used some legitimate elements of strategy in my personal estimation, which I view as more strategic than what the genre is built on, which is pool resources, auto create troops, and keep consistent waves crashing upon your enemy till they are defeated.

I liked rise of nations & rise of legends on how it had a tactical overview map in which you held territories. My only complaint there is that the territory maps were far too small and did not leave for maybe one or two area choices at a time.

 

[Baby Tea]

Of course they involve strategy.
They might not involve what you perceive as real-world strategy, but there is absolutely strategy involved.

You can't play and win Homeworld 1 or 2 without strategy.
You'll lose.

 

[Amphoteric]

TOTAL WAR.

 

[Jimson]

Almost all of the Total War Games force you to use real troop formations, and really take the time to figure out how to play, and where to set your stuff, A lot of the time I find that having a computer on hardest mode, always makes the game 20X more strategic, because instead of facing that one unit you always face (Zerglings) you face thousands of different formations, and even combinations of units, making for a totally different match.

 

[NeutralDrow]

They all do. Some rely on it more than others (I'm quite fond of the Age of Empires games), but every one requires strategy of a sort.

 

[Dana22]

Every game requires strategic thinking.

 

[Judgement101]

Every game requires strategic thinking.

Most RTSs are just spam units.

 

[ThePirateMan]

Most Real time STRATEGY games do involve strategy by the definition that I know of.

Starcraft 2, Total War: [Whichever], Homeworld, etc etc.

Every game requires strategic thinking.

Most RTSs are just spam units.

Eh? Some examples?

 

[L4hlborg]

I'm not gonna bother to put too much of my time on the subject, but isn't RUSE the game where you can mask units to other unitse and try to trick the enemy? Because I think that it requires strategy and brains to actually manage to do this without a the help of a gameplay mechanic.

Also, you can't win by just by deciding to build a shitload of stuff. You actually have to know what stuff you have to build to win, how to actually build it and when you have build enough. This is classified as strategy in my books.

 

[Steel Ronin]

I know this thread was done a while back but since then a bunch of new RTSs were released sooooo yeeeeaaaahhhhhhh....

Basicallyo any RTSs involve straegy? So far I think RUSE is the only one, please correct me if I am wrong.

you ever heard of Starcraft 2

 

[Lukeje]

Every game requires strategic thinking.

Most RTSs are just spam units.

That's a strategy.

 

[Crimson_Dragoon]

Every game requires strategic thinking.

Most RTSs are just spam units.

That's not even remotely true, especially if you're playing against someone that even somewhat knows what they're doing, in which case just spaming units will lose you the game.

 

[Feriluce]

I guess theres quite a few people that dont know the difference between strategy and tactics.

 

[Judgement101]

I know this thread was done a while back but since then a bunch of new RTSs were released sooooo yeeeeaaaahhhhhhh....

Basicallyo any RTSs involve straegy? So far I think RUSE is the only one, please correct me if I am wrong.

you ever heard of Starcraft 2

All you do in that is spam units

Every game requires strategic thinking.

Most RTSs are just spam units.

That's a strategy.

I mean REAL strategy.

 

[Meggiepants]

All games require strategy to beat. Button mashing is a strategy. Not a complex one of course, but a strategy.

RTS games do require an understanding of the game mechanic and planning around it, if that's what you mean. You have to use your resources wisely, create the proper kinds of troops in order to defeat a particular enemy, and make sure your defenses are capable.

But, in my experience, they don't require a Chess level of strategy and planning, but then, I think that has more to do with the over complexity of RTS games. Chess is fairly simple, the focus is more on complex strategy given a limited set of options. RTS games are based more on how to use a complex set of options to win.

RTS games might be more strategy based if they toned down some of the gimmicky stuff involved, but then, they wouldn't look so pretty or seem so deep.

 

[Lukeje]

Every game requires strategic thinking.

Most RTSs are just spam units.

That's a strategy.

I mean REAL strategy.

What counts as `real' strategy? I'm pretty sure unit spamming is a legitimate strategy in the real world.

 

[megalomania]

The problem with the ideal 'strategy' elements that people are looking for is that scripting for such scenarios is incredibly difficult.

If the A.I is scripted poorly they will behave as the standard A.I - stream units at you in poorly devised bits and pieces attacks, at which point any meanful strategy evaporates.
If the A.I is given too much knowledge of the map it behaves in an omniscient manner and it can never be surpised or exploited.
If scripted events are used to add a sense of urgency to the players attack (i.e You've breaked the enemies perimeter but a miraculous counter attack has appeared in the middle of your base out of the clear blue sky (looking at you Red Alert)) they will inevitably either be exploited or hated.

Basically what you are asking is why don't A.Is in computer games behave like human players! The behaviour is too complex to model.

I also agree with Baby Tea though, there is strategy in most games, just not always what you are looking for.

I would like to see more strategy like DoW but with modifications; I think cover and high ground bonuses should be displayed on the GUI somewhere and give you a sense of increased cover or damage modification. I think damage modifies have to be more extreme - it needs to not be based on economics - some things need to have massive modifiers against certain enemies while doing neglible damage to others. e.g. an infrantry unit in heavy cover could withstand a tank pounding them for sometime before being obliterated but they would do effectively 0 damage to it in that time, untill the tank buster rocket launcher unit arrives...

If anyone knows of a game like that, tell me tell me tell me!