Are casual gamers ruining gaming?

[thatstheguy]

I'd really hate to get others the idea that they can only either be into games seriously or not at all. Some people just don't want to devote time into something that really doesn't matter. Can it shape the future of games? Most likely, but I doubt it'll have any affect on "our" type of games.

 

[geddydisciple]

As annoying as casual gamers may be they are a good thing. Gaming has become more "socially acceptable" over the past few years because the casual gaming scene has expanded so much. It may not matter to alot of us how socially acceptable gaming is but it does make having a social life easier whether you want to admit it or not.

 

[queensbomb]

I'm going to say "no" because I really don't see much difference between casual and hardcore games. Casual games are mostly defined by a game that's easy to start and finish if one doesn't really have the time to play lengthy and drawn out sequences; so in my opinion the only difference between casual and hardcore games are the lengths between save points. I suppose games like Peggle may be what you're talking about, but even then those kinds of games went and still are going through the internet like a pandemic, so if they didn't ruin games then there's no real reason that they are now.

 

[SantoUno]

No, because there is no such thing as casual or hardcore gaming.

Of course there is, well I don't think hardcore is the right word I would rather use dedicated as the term for the so-called hardcore gamers. Casual gaming is real, it's those people that play games every now and then like people who play Guitar Hero/Rock Band and cheap minigames like Wii sports but are not really into playing serious games with lots of innovation and depth for the dedicated gamers like Assassin's Creed and Dragon Age.

Uh, nope. That's YOUR definition. Ask anyone, and your definition of "casual"/"hardcore" gaming is bound to change. These terms do not have a solid definition, like game genres do. Besides, Wii Sports was a pretty innovative title; from what I've heard, DA:O is not, as it's just a standard RPG done right with a superb script and voice acting. Casual and hardcore gaming are, in fact, not real.

Well to each his own I guess, but no you cannot say in fact that they are not real, you believe they are not real but I believe they do, but no matter.

And you can'be be serious. WII SPORTS MORE INNOVATIVE THAN DA:O!!!? Perhaps you didn't quite understand my point when comparing shallow games like Guitar Hero and Wii Sports to Assassin's Creed, but it's ok I'm not trying to start an argument or anything.

 

[Heart of Darkness]

No, because there is no such thing as casual or hardcore gaming.

Of course there is, well I don't think hardcore is the right word I would rather use dedicated as the term for the so-called hardcore gamers. Casual gaming is real, it's those people that play games every now and then like people who play Guitar Hero/Rock Band and cheap minigames like Wii sports but are not really into playing serious games with lots of innovation and depth for the dedicated gamers like Assassin's Creed and Dragon Age.

Uh, nope. That's YOUR definition. Ask anyone, and your definition of "casual"/"hardcore" gaming is bound to change. These terms do not have a solid definition, like game genres do. Besides, Wii Sports was a pretty innovative title; from what I've heard, DA:O is not, as it's just a standard RPG done right with a superb script and voice acting. Casual and hardcore gaming are, in fact, not real.

Well to each his own I guess, but no you cannot say in fact that they are not real, you believe they are not real but I believe they do, but no matter.

And you can'be be serious. WII SPORTS MORE INNOVATIVE THAN DA:O!!!? Perhaps you didn't quite understand my point when comparing shallow games like Guitar Hero and Wii Sports to Assassin's Creed, but it's ok I'm not trying to start an argument or anything.

Well, they aren't real. These divisions have only been made recently, and lack any substance.
I don't feel like starting an argument over this either.

Innovation =/= Depth. Again, I'm only going by what I heard, since I don't have the resources yet to play DA:O, but I've heard that it's still a pretty standard RPG. Wii Sports utilized motion control, and thereby opened the doors to motion control in gaming much more than the Eye Toy was capable of. That's why I consider it innovative. Is it shallow? Yeah. But it doesn't make it any less innovative.
Rock Band and Guitar Hero could also be considered innovative, as they've introduced a new way to play games. Is that way very limited? Yeah, but it's opened possibilities that developers may make use of in the future.

 

[Mr. Fister]

*Sigh* Must I bring up the Birdmen article again? Ah, who am I kidding? I love posting that article.

http://malstrom.50webs.com/birdman.html

Brilliant, that Malstrom guy.

 

[Maddenfreak]

well their hands are tied, their just arnt many hardcore gamers out there, while there is a growing number of casual gamers, they need to appeal to the majority, so it's sad, but their's not a lot we can do about it

 

[gamefreakbsp]

YES!

 

[minoes]

oh look, another person who thinks knocking twilight when they most likely haven't even read it makes them sound more sophisticated

Actually I wasn´t critizising the book, nor Hip Hop for that matter. I was simply using Twilight as an example of "art" (literature in this case) that most people won´t consider as such (I can even show you someone who doesn´t think literature is art at all). Whether Twilight is good or bad, won´t make it any less art.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Wuvlycuddles]

This is a silly thread.

Your basing your arguement on the assumption that a casual gamer is bad and a hardcore gamer is good. I know people who play games hardcore, yet they totally suck and they hate me because i can pick up a new game and beat them at it in less than fifteen minutes. I consider myself a casual gamer simply because i don't have the time to play as often as i like, that doesn't make me a bad gamer.

But i'll tell you what is ruining games, tv, movies and music. The idiots are. Firstly, the idiots who run the games companies want games with mass market appeal and the mass market are idiots, therefore the games are being made for idiots and essentially are being ruined for the rest of us. But there will always be non idiots making games for the other non idiots, untill the non idiot companies get bought out by the idiots making all the millions from all the idiots buying their idiotic games.

Does seem rather bleak for the future of gaming doesn't it?

 

[chronobreak]

Oh man, you would think I'm literally driving a stake in the heart of the industry the way I get shit on play MW2 because my level is so low. I'm a fucking noob, nobody wants to play with me, if I can't put in the time to master it I shouldn't play at all, yadda yadda. I've heard it all, and it's disgusting. I have a job and a family, I don't sit and play games all day, I do it for a release. I am not harming your "precious".

 

[Spiner909]

Borderlands is very hardcore. You done a second playthrough yet? I'd say casual games are rather good thing, like a stepping stone for developers to get noticed and make cash. But people like PopCap are getting filthy rich from casual games. Is it wrong? I don't think so. It brings more gamers into the world. Plus, if you can get cranky parents playing casual games, they might be less strict on your hardcore gaming habit!

 

[minoes]

Thank you for automatically assuming I was trying to rag on the Wii, because really there's nothing I enjoy more than being the dick who starts a flame war. I was talking about the endless stream of quick cash-in third party games. All the "Carnival Games" nonsense type stuff that's just a bunch of packaged mini-games.

Secondly, literature and music are already established art forms, gaming is still trying to be established. My point was simply that when people hear literature they think of the classics and the genuinely good literature because it's an established form. But when people who aren't gamers hear the word "videogame" in their heads it's pong with better graphics, it's still the same pointless time waster. If the goal is to shift the paradigm so that when people hear the word "videogame" they do think of the good games, then the casual game phenomena can be damaging because it encourages thinking of games as just "games" as opposed to thinking of games as an artistic medium.

And all that is not to say that I don't enjoy some casual games myself, I love the guitar hero games, etc... But I also realize that they can be damaging to gaming's image in a time when it would be possible for gaming to shift from "games" to "artform," a shift that I believe is important if gamers don't want to forever be viewed as they are today.

Sorry, but you should have specified what Wii games you were referring to.

As for games as an artistic medium, which do you think are more art, games with high production values or games that carry out their creator´s intentions? Because a game can only be art if their creator intended it to be art.

And sorry (again) for asking, but do you remember a game called PN03? One of the main complaints many people had with that game, was that it required a certain rhythm in order to move and attack that felt very forced and unnatural, and when someone asked Shinji Mikami (it´s designer) why did he used those game mechanics, he simply responded; [I/]that´s how I wanted it to be[/I]. He didn´t care if the game was fun or not, his artistic vision was more important than that, which is one thing people often forget when they say they want video games to become art, is that art is something personal.

And imagine what would happend if games became something like Dada or experimental films, wouldn´t that be more harmful to video games than games that are just trying to be fun?

 

[Zelist]

Borderlands is not hardcore, it tries to be hardcore but it is lacking, ive been through the game(playthough 2) twice first time with mordicai second time with roland, and im going through with brick now, but the game is a joke for single player, and without dedicated servers i rarely play multi-player(having a 4 player max as well as everyone having to be in the same zone sucks big), the game totally lacks an end game, the bosses do not have an improved loot drop table, and you can make billions and fit yourself out with the best just doing new haven/crimson fastness runs, without an sdk the community can't make up for the lack, and unless some kicking dlc comes out quick its gonna end up labeled as a casual game for the rest of its life. =(.

the best thing about hardcore game companies falling into the casual ravine is it gives the chance for new hardcore companies to take there place and steal there spotlight for new good games.

 

[Valiance]

Yes and no, obviously. Most developers won't cater to you as much, but there's always, always some out there that will. Speaking of which, you'd enjoy Ikaruga. Let me know when you S+ rank every chapter on one credit, and I think they might be porting Radiant Silvergun to XBLA.

 

[Kpt._Rob]

Thank you for automatically assuming I was trying to rag on the Wii, because really there's nothing I enjoy more than being the dick who starts a flame war. I was talking about the endless stream of quick cash-in third party games. All the "Carnival Games" nonsense type stuff that's just a bunch of packaged mini-games.

Secondly, literature and music are already established art forms, gaming is still trying to be established. My point was simply that when people hear literature they think of the classics and the genuinely good literature because it's an established form. But when people who aren't gamers hear the word "videogame" in their heads it's pong with better graphics, it's still the same pointless time waster. If the goal is to shift the paradigm so that when people hear the word "videogame" they do think of the good games, then the casual game phenomena can be damaging because it encourages thinking of games as just "games" as opposed to thinking of games as an artistic medium.

And all that is not to say that I don't enjoy some casual games myself, I love the guitar hero games, etc... But I also realize that they can be damaging to gaming's image in a time when it would be possible for gaming to shift from "games" to "artform," a shift that I believe is important if gamers don't want to forever be viewed as they are today.

Sorry, but you should have specified what Wii games you were referring to.

As for games as an artistic medium, which do you think are more art, games with high production values or games that carry out their creator´s intentions? Because a game can only be art if their creator intended it to be art.

And sorry (again) for asking, but do you remember a game called PN03? One of the main complaints many people had with that game, was that it required a certain rhythm in order to move and attack that felt very forced and unnatural, and when someone asked Shinji Mikami (it´s designer) why did he used those game mechanics, he simply responded; [I/]that´s how I wanted it to be[/I]. He didn´t care if the game was fun or not, his artistic vision was more important than that, which is one thing people often forget when they say they want video games to become art, is that art is something personal.

And imagine what would happend if games became something like Dada or experimental films, wouldn´t that be more harmful to video games than games that are just trying to be fun?

I find this attitude toward the idea of games as art a lot amongst people who've never studied art, and it's based on the misconception that many people who've never studied art have, the misconception that there is only good art, or at least they've never stopped to think that there might be bad art. The fact of the matter is that there is good art and there is bad art, certainly there is the factor of differing opinions, but when a work is genuinely bad people can tell. Any artist needs to understand how to work with their medium if they want their work to be appreciated. A painter who decided to work only in brown "because he liked that color" probably wouldn't sell a lot of paintings. The same concept applies to games, an artist who makes a game in a certain way because that's how they want it to be risks the game being judged as bad by players, and if they do judge it to be bad either the artist will change his ways, or he won't be likely to sell a lot of games in the future.

I suspect that in the fullness of time (assuming it is accepted as a legitimate medium, and I believe it ultimately will be) gaming will be an artistic media very similar in nature to film. Some features will be blatant cash ins, but society will also understand the potential that the medium has for artistic expression. But if gaming can't get past the word "game" then that potential is unlikely to be accepted and we may never see a real bloom in the game world.

 

[[Insert Name Here]]

Casual gamers, also known as Wii owners, and their god-awful casual games are a threat to the industry. Casual games are cheap and easy to make, and casual gamers are stupid enough to spend their money on something that can only be described as a mobile phone game with shinier graphics. More and more game developers see how cheap it is to make these, shunning REAL gamers, and the trend spreads faster than Syphilis in Kings Cross. So to answer, yes, casual gamers are ruining it for the rest of us.

 

[Jekken6]

There's two types of casual gamer. there's the Wii/Flash game players who only play shitty games, because they do not know any better.

Then there's the teenage/frat boy gamer who only play sports games, CoD and Halo. They play these because of their violence and ease, as well as the chance to be a fucking annoying twat.

I consider a 'Hardcore gamer' as someone who has played on multiple systems, plays challenging games and are good at said challenging games.

 

[malestrithe]

No, they are actually going to help the industry, believe it or don't. Every person that sees the game system as this magical device that care about their health by helping them lose weight, educate their kids, and help facilitate family game night will be one less parent that will fall into the Jack Thompson crowd. The industry needs new blood to thrive and the casual gamers of today will become the hardcore gamers of tomorrow. If the industry does not get new people in every once in a while, it will die. Casual gamers are our strongest ally.

As the survivor of the last gaming apocalypse, when the playstation was first released, I can tell you that the same fears you have about these casual gamers were the ones we used to have back then. Many people back then were saying things like:

"A non gaming company is making a game system, and it will attract new people, non gaming people that did not grow up in the hobby like we did? Casual gamers will be attracted to the hobby? This is a bug hunt! Game over man! Game over!"

Well, the only thing that can be said is get over it. The influx of casual gamers means that the industry is thriving.