Are mainstream devs deliberately discouraging women from gaming?

[Kahunaburger]

The issue is that female characters tend to be designed to appeal to a male audience as a sexual fantasy and that male characters tend to be designed to appeal to a male audience as a power fantasy. Trust me, if male characters were objectified to the same extent as female characters, you'd know.

Cynical nonsense.

Female characters are developed to be both beautiful and powerful.
Male characters are developed to be both handsome and powerful.
Both are attractive and strong/skilled.

There's a lack of balance in numbers, but "objectification" is a myth created by dark, cynical minds too obsessed with sex.

There's a significant difference between a character that is designed to look tough and may look attractive as a side effect and a character that's designed to look attractive and may look tough as a side effect.

Spoiler: Here's some more examples, this time with characters played by actors.

Power fantasy:

Sexual fantasy:

Power fantasy:

Sexual fantasy:

 

[LilithSlave]

Male characters are developed to be both handsome and powerful.

Err, no. I don't buy that.

Maybe what some guys wish was considered to be "handsome". But the first thought that goes through when designing such characters is obviously 'power fantasy'.

Edit: Ninja'd.

Oh, and objectification definitely exists and is an issue in all media. Dismissing it as cynical isn't a fantastic argument.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Like many have said already I don't believe this is deliberate as much as it is negligence. Big-time devs and publishers just haven't quite grasped the concept that female gamers make up a large demographic in the AAA space. They are usually an afterthought as popular belief dictates they spend all of their gaming time playing Farmville and the like. By the way is that really Ubisoft's reasoning for AC3? That's pretty fucking weak, I could do better than that: "The idea is that whatshisfuck is living his ancestor's lives so it would be kind of awkward for him to take on the role of a female descendant."

Better than their shit excuse anyway >.>

Yeah it is absolutely their reasoning.

http://www.vg247.com/2012/03/28/assassins-creed-iiis-setting-a-bit-of-a-pain-for-female-characters/

Yours makes much more sense. It would awkward But I also think it would be an extra level of the story they could play with.

 

[daveman247]

I can happily play games as a guy just sometimes with those games the devs seem to take it as a license to make the character as much of a mans man as possible so any chance of immersion is lost on a woman.

I'm also worried about Risen 2 because of how women will be treated in the narrative for example.

Why am i not surprised its you making this thread X) Good points though.

What are they doing to women in risen 2?


Males are still the primary demographic because it is true :/ Though they have been getting better on putting wo/men on equal footing in games.

 

[Fappy]

Like many have said already I don't believe this is deliberate as much as it is negligence. Big-time devs and publishers just haven't quite grasped the concept that female gamers make up a large demographic in the AAA space. They are usually an afterthought as popular belief dictates they spend all of their gaming time playing Farmville and the like. By the way is that really Ubisoft's reasoning for AC3? That's pretty fucking weak, I could do better than that: "The idea is that whatshisfuck is living his ancestor's lives so it would be kind of awkward for him to take on the role of a female descendant."

Better than their shit excuse anyway >.>

Yeah it is absolutely their reasoning.

http://www.vg247.com/2012/03/28/assassins-creed-iiis-setting-a-bit-of-a-pain-for-female-characters/

Yours makes much more sense. It would awkward But I also think it would be an extra level of the story they could play with.

"Time to get back in the animus."

"Who am I going to be this time?"

"Your great-great-great grandma."

"Grandma!? Wait what?"

-Animus turns on-

"I have tits! Holy shit this is weird."

60 minutes later....

"How's his progress?"

"He's been... exploring himself..."

"Wake me up in a week."

 

[Vault101]

The issue is that female characters tend to be designed to appeal to a male audience as a sexual fantasy and that male characters tend to be designed to appeal to a male audience as a power fantasy. Trust me, if male characters were objectified to the same extent as female characters, you'd know.

Cynical nonsense.

Female characters are developed to be both beautiful and powerful.
Male characters are developed to be both handsome and powerful.
Both are attractive and strong/skilled.

There's a lack of balance in numbers, but "objectification" is a myth created by dark, cynical minds too obsessed with sex.

Femshep (in the right hands) is both beautiful and powerful

Catwoman (ala batman:AC) is a mans sexual fantasy

there is a difference freind....see if you can spot it (also that guy from gears of war or kratos arnt making any panties wet anytime soon)

 

[Shadow Master]

What does power have to do with image?

Power is seen through actions, not appearance.

Take War and Death from Darksiders for some current generation examples. They both possess very attractive male traits. Their faces, their eyes, their hair, their muscles, their height and weight and so forth.

Their images are developed to be idealized males.

Their power comes from their magical powers and skills and so forth, not what they look like.

Likewise, female characters look attractive and are powerful through their powers and skills and so forth. The two aspects are separate.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I can happily play games as a guy just sometimes with those games the devs seem to take it as a license to make the character as much of a mans man as possible so any chance of immersion is lost on a woman.

I'm also worried about Risen 2 because of how women will be treated in the narrative for example.

Why am i not surprised its you making this thread X) Good points though.

What are they doing to women in risen 2?


Males are still the primary demographic because it is true :/ Though they have been getting better on putting wo/men on equal footing in games.

Erg, I hope I'm not turning into some sort of feminist Zeel or eternal nothingness

I have heard that Risen 2 pretty much says women should be in the kitchen or on a street corner That might be complete BS ofc but if it isn't I don't think I will be making a purchase.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

I don't think a little light comedy would go amiss

What does power have to do with image?

Power is seen through actions, not appearance.

Take War and Death from Darksiders for some current generation examples. They both possess very attractive male traits. Their faces, their eyes, their hair, their muscles, their height and weight and so forth.

Their images are developed to be idealized males.

Their power comes from their magical powers and skills and so forth, not what they look like.

Likewise, female characters look attractive and are powerful through their powers and skills and so forth. The two aspects are separate.

A little help for you.

Spoiler: What men (generalising) want a hero to look like

Spoiler: A man that is popular with women

Spoiler: What women want a hero to look like

Spoiler: A female character popular with men

Do you see the difference? tip...chest area.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Take War and Death from Darksiders for some current generation examples. They both possess very attractive male traits. Their faces, their eyes, their hair, their muscles, their height and weight and so forth.

Ladies.

...

Yeah, no, not getting it. I'm not into dudes, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say "armored bear with tiny person head" isn't the body type most people who are into dudes are into.

Their images are developed to be idealized males.

Specifically, the ideal person your average teenage boy would want to be while punching things.

 

[Fappy]

Erg, I hope I'm not turning into some sort of feminist Zeel

I know this is a plot development that has come out of nowhere and implies lore that otherwise did not previously exist but uh... I am sorry but, "There must always be a Zeel."

Now pick up his helmet and sit on his throne. You have been chosen.

(If you get the reference I has cookies!)

 

[Vault101]

snip.

its different..it just is

hetero women find different things attractive in males..war doest do anything for me because hes a miserable son of a *****...

Im pretty sure some women out there want to bang the joker.....yeah

batman has rippling abs in a skin tight suit....but we dotn see him as a sex object

catwoman is seen as a sex object

femshep isnt...

 

[Vault101]

[.

Erg, I hope I'm not turning into some sort of feminist Zeel or eternal nothingness

.

I can volunteer to be the sites resident Zeel feminist

(I havnt had the pleasure of reading any of his stuff though..it was all related to ME3)

 

[daveman247]

This brings up another point. I remember reading some comments on prototype 2, and a lot were complaining that you play as a black guy. Can't quite remember so i may be making it up.

Weirdly enough, gears 3, a story about super-macho people making a lot of mess- is also quite diverse gender/ race wise. *Random fact of the day*

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Erg, I hope I'm not turning into some sort of feminist Zeel

I know this is a plot development that has come out of nowhere and implies lore that otherwise did not previously exist but uh... I am sorry but, "There must always be a Zeel."

Now pick up his helmet and sit on his throne. You have been chosen.

(If you get the reference I has cookies!)

Nuh uh don't wanna. *digs heels in*

Seriously though I made this thread because it just seemed like one thing after another this week. I had to vent

 

[Subaltern]

Who is Zeel? And what's wrong with being a feminist? I am very confused!

 

[Fr]anc[is]

Who is Zeel?

Go find a ME3 thread a few weeks old and you'll see.

 

[Shadow Master]

I totally get what women see in guys like George Clooney.

Why would anyone who considers George Clooney attractive in any way play fantasy games in the first place...?