Are mainstream devs deliberately discouraging women from gaming?

[Zhukov]

I recognise and sympathise with the original poster's frustration that more Action-RPGs don't do more to include the women who do enjoy them but not so much as to decree that henceforth all male player characters should be rendered down into boring, bland standardised unisex player wish-fullfillment vehicles.

Apart from the unisex part, they already are.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Tyler Perry and his millions tell us that most of Hollywood saturation bombing 14-35 white males with movies made for them and only them might not be the brightest idea ever.

That's another thing. It's not that Hollywood and the Game Industry has no real interest in capitalizing among other demographics, it's that they don't know how to. They don't have the practice. Most developers and film makers themselves are the young white males and trying to get such group to cater to anyone else besides themselves isn't exactly easy. You can be the biggest openly minded non biased objective white guy, but if I asked you to make a game for migrant Mexican workers you're going to be in over your head. And as hard as you try not to, chances are you might fuck up and put in something that that said group would find racist or simply disagreeable.

Tyler Perry in the end is a black himself. Of course he would know how to cater to his audience. But you know what's funny? I bet he would also know how to cater to young white males as well. Why? Because he's grown up in that culture for so long he's also a part of it and would know what to do.

Now, some of you might be thinking that I'm for all this. Well, I'm not. I'm not here to say this is right, I'm here to say that that's just how it is.

It's not like there's a dearth of scripts written by minorities or women, or aspiring minority or woman directors. The blame for the issue IMO rests squarely at the feet of producers who only want to fund projects for and by white males.

Incidentally, this is a big reason I'm psyched about kickstarter - the indie scene is in general significantly more inclusive than corporate game production. If the barrier to entry for making a video game is lower, we'll get more projects that EA/Activision/etc. don't consider "safe."

 

[Nomanslander]

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It's not like there's a dearth of scripts written by minorities or women, or aspiring minority or woman directors. The blame for the issue IMO rests squarely at the feet of producers who only want to fund projects for and by white males.

Incidentally, this is a big reason I'm psyched about kickstarter - the indie scene is in general significantly more inclusive than corporate game production. If the barrier to entry for making a video game is lower, we'll get more projects that EA/Activision/etc. don't consider "safe."

Yeah, I agree.

But I also think the industry needs to also hire more talent that's part of a minority. More female developers on a project would mean more likely chance you'll have a protagonists that are female, and done RIGHT!

This is another thing. The one thing I can't stand bout characters like Lara Croft and even Samus Aran which really disheartens me is it's so blatantly obvious the characters were not developed by women. More like from men with a unique wish fulfillment.

 

[Dfskelleton]

Take War and Death from Darksiders for some current generation examples. They both possess very attractive male traits. Their faces, their eyes, their hair, their muscles, their height and weight and so forth.

Ladies.

Heh. I like how it says "basic" armor. I thought basic usually referred to the base, or lowest level. I must say I'm wondering what the "advanced" armor looks like.
OT: I don't think they're trying to discourage anyone, I just think that they're under the assumption that their primary audience consists mainly of males.

 

[Phasmal]

If this is not necessarily your personal outlook, then I apologize for assuming, but I have come across one to many fellow gamers who do.

I think we may have to agree to disagree, because I disagree that doing something means you are that thing. (As in, I think its possible to do sexist things without being a sexist).

Offence is taken, not given. Intent only matters to the people doing the action, nobody else can know your intent.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

I recognise and sympathise with the original poster's frustration that more Action-RPGs don't do more to include the women who do enjoy them but not so much as to decree that henceforth all male player characters should be rendered down into boring, bland standardised unisex player wish-fulfillment vehicles.

Apart from the unisex part, they already are.

Any game with a central protagonist that the player does not get to name or choose the appearance of, who ends up being as interesting and engaging as a square plank of reconstituted plywood is simply suffering from a case of poor writing.

The difference is simple.

When character creation is left up to the player then every reasonable option that can be afforded should be implemented. There are a lot of good game design reasons to do this, but I think it should come down to simple human decency. The game developer is essentially leaving a section of the game constructed but unassembled because for some genres it just simply easier and more profitable to do it that way. The least they can do is make sure you've got as many choices as possible to pick from.

When game developers pre-generate a character for their audience then it is up to them to create a character and a game's worth of interactions that that character will have with the rest of the game that is compelling enough for gamers to care about.

Take the examples that the OP mentioned..

Assassin's Creed.

Miles Desmond might be in all of the Assasin's Creed games, but he he clearly is not the protagonist in any of them. He instead serves as a loose framing device to explore the stories of his far more interesting ancestors, Altaïr and Ezio respectively. Satisfactorily having Miles experience and deal with the memories of a maternal ancestor might dangerously flesh him out as a character, when his only purpose in any of the games is to act as the connective tissue that binds the franchise together.

It could be done I suppose, and it could be done well. Just not by Ubisoft. I just don't think they have the capacity to take it to that level and not make a complete ham of it.

The Witcher.

A solid textbook example of a company taking complete ownership of the character that the player will be guiding through the game, presenting all the choices that you get to make as choices that said character might or might not do. Role-playing game?

No, the Witcher games are instead Geralt of Rivia simulators. That might be a deal breaker for some people, but I draw the line between myself and people who then go on to say that I can't have Witcher gamers because they don't 'enjoy' them.

Kingdoms of Amalur.

As tempting as it would be to cajole someone for not wanting to play the 'icky' lesbian, I will write this down to the fact that 38 Studios was founded by a baseball pitcher, they're a small company and they've just released their very first game.

Cut them some slack.

 

[RyuujinZERO]

I am now female Commander Shepard, and this is my least favourite thread on the Escapist.

*Goes back to watching Cortez and Kaidan making out on the security feed*



(How about that for stereotype reversal )

 

[The Random One]

It's not deliberate. Gaming culture in general is very insular and it tends to refuse anyone it doesn't recognize as 'one of us', and since the first steps in gaming culture were given by white straight male nerds, you can't join unless you dance their tune. It's not that they actively discourage black lesbian female hipsters from joining, but they immediately identify them as outsiders unless they drape themselves heavily in the culture, which means they're less likely to appeal to other black, lesbian etc. people.

Mainstream developers are not focused on broadening audiences, only on what sells, and are trapped on a loop of 'women/old people/OWS protesters/whatever don't buy games, so we won't worry whether they'll enjoy the games we're making'. It seems disingenious to attribute this to deliberate misanthropy as opposed to mere shortsightedness.

 

[guitarsniper]

Go play Mirror's Edge. Oh, what's that, you wanted to play a male character? NOPE. Oh, what's that, you want your female characters hypersexualized and with certain bodily...conditions...that would keep them from doing some of the athletic things they're supposedly capable of doing? Again, NOPE.

 

[hex000]

firstly I don't think any company mainstream or otherwise would actively discourage any group from playing it lost revenue and all that however I do think videogames are generally created with a male audience in mind which can make them a bit misogynist ( I hate spelling that word) although it's a rather confusing issue on the one hand for videogames to grow as a medium they need to represent all sections of society but on the other hand maybe some game writers are making wot would appear to be sexist design choices not with malicious intent but simply because they think it works in the context of the story there telling there are quite a few exceptions to that scenario for instance Ivy from Soul calibre can any soul calibre fans tell me whether or not there's a reason for her to wear that ridiculous armour other than the obvious?

 

[Darkmantle]

I largely agree with the sentiment, but something about the opening post and subsequent arguments leave a bad taste in my mouth.

It's a little hard to place for me, but I think it might be the idea that this gender imbalance is institutionalized and widely supported. And maybe I'm just naive but I really don't think it is.

It's hard to explain right now :/

 

[Twilight_guy]

No more so then game are intentionally trying to be racist. Developers mean well, but prejudice is sort of ingrained into many parts of our society and developers are kind of oblivious to certain things. Personally, I think if gender isn't important to the protagonist then deciding on gender should be done with the flip of a coin. Then again I know people who would claim I'm a horrible person for thinking gender is binary.

 

[TehCookie]

Ohh a games and sexism thread! Time for me to take gaming back a few years!

Spoiler: I demand manservice!

Alright so my usual examples of Dante's Lucifer scene or Solid Snake's ass would have worked better but that picture cracks me up.

Not that I'm against better characters and pushing the medium forward, but sometimes I just want to show what's it's like on the other side. Not to mention some girls like eyecandy too, and I will call insecure if you can't handle an attractive guy in a game.

 

[Yuno Gasai]

I'm just sick of girls being typecast as either the damsel in distress or the wholly useless sidekick.

There have been a few exceptions to the rule - take Bayonetta, as one example - but they tend to be oversexualized when they could've stuck to just being badass. :c

 

[deathzero021]

i think it's just society as a whole. the majority of movies have male heroes or main characters, and female characters are usually only support for the guy, or eye-candy for the audience, or just for a cheap romance scene to gain the female audience. games turn out the same way most the time. i do think it's unfair but i'm not sure if games are going to be the first to lead this movement because it's part of everything in this society. we're still a mostly male-lead society (here in America) and only recently in the past couple decades have we been improving this. hopefully in the future things WILL be more balanced and fair in both media and society.

 

[ckam]

That Amular thing you mentioned, it sounds intriguing... Yes...

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

I really need to play that game again.....

 

[Double A]

I'm fairly certain most devs are guys (or at the very least, most of the higher ups), and working with what you know is easier than the alternative.