Are MMO players going to leave SW: TOR enmass?
- Thread starter longboardfan
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From the people that i know that started playing ToR, 5 quitted after 2 months, 1 is still there and still loving it. The only one i asked about the game told me there is no endgame content and that PvP is scarce and more broken than GW or WoW.longboardfan said:
I've heard it said before, I don't remember where, but the integral aspect of ANY MMO is the Community. If you don't have a strong Community, you don't have a strong MMO; the rest of the game doesn't seem to matter. The biggest problem for any new MMO isn't the fact that WoW does anything better, it's the fact that everyone's playing it. It's kind of like Facebook vs. Myspace; people are drawn to whichever has more users first and foremost. I'm sure most of the people who left TOR were people who couldn't find a strong guild or group of in-game friends to play with, and thus left it to return to the well-established cliques they had formed in WoW, or whatever other game they may have been playing.
Well, like most launches it was immediately hailed as "TEH BESTEST AHR PEE GEE EBUH!!!" and had many good reviews and huge sales. But then, the floodgates of false enjoyment burst and there is a steady exodus of players. What happens is all of the little problems start to become more and more notable. All of the little quirks start to irritate you more and more. Eventually, you break and cancel your subscription.
The game is fine. It's mostly the players that suck. If you can't find a nice guild with likeminded people you're pretty much screwed. The problem is most people play it like a singleplayer game. Which it is not. So they get disappointed and leave.
I like playing with other people but the majority only seems interested in killing each other for shiny pieces of gear. Maybe this game is a few years late.
It seems there's hardly a market for MMO games anymore anyway. Except for WoW, which is also dropping. But 11 million or 10 doesn't make much of a difference.
I like playing with other people but the majority only seems interested in killing each other for shiny pieces of gear. Maybe this game is a few years late.
It seems there's hardly a market for MMO games anymore anyway. Except for WoW, which is also dropping. But 11 million or 10 doesn't make much of a difference.
I think it's popularity will falter in a few months when the game gets some updates in. Expansions and balance rehauls, etc. Eventually it will be watered down enough to where people will just drop it.
Just think; It already had some major glitch-drama with their PvP crowd. Wasn't even out for a month.
Just think; It already had some major glitch-drama with their PvP crowd. Wasn't even out for a month.
I followed SWTOR since it was announced. two of my favorite games of all time were KOTOR II and the original KOTOR to a lesser extent, and I was salivating over getting KOTOR III after so long. Every time I heard the devs talk about the emphasis on story, and the lack of grind, my brain would switch into super-excitement mode and I couldn't imagine waiting another 2-3 years for it to come out.
Then it came out.
I enjoyed the class quest for a while. about till level 30, but SWTOR is NOT KOTOR III. it is a game with some elements of an MMO, and some elements of a RPG, but the RPG elements are soulless, and the MMO elements do not mesh well with the RPG style story. For instance, boss fights will be the same all the way to level 50. There are the Caster elite bosses, and the melee elite bosses, and every boss is just the same generic elite with a different skin. You will handle each boss in the same damn way every time. And well, if you want to level solo, which you can do, you need to do EVERY SINGLE QUEST AND BONUS SERIES. if you skip even a few, you will be underleveled, and after 30 levels the novelty of the voice acting starts to fade. it's still interesting, but so many quests are almost identical.
Your companions could have been the focusing point though. They could have help the RPG aspects together, but...guess what? remember the amazing plot and character development in the KOTOR I & II? not there. there are conversations, don't get me wrong, but they are linear and shallow. You never get to know or identify with them like in the original KOTOR games. there are a couple quests that get unlocked by these conversations, but they're short, shallow, and...well...pointless.
as for dungeons? flashpoints as they're called in SWTOR. well...on my server, which had ques, getting a group together for one of them took upwards of 30m. and well...when three people have been spamming general chat for 30m to get two more people, one of them usually gets bored or has to leave and the search continues. the flashpoints weren't really worth it anyway, truth be told. the early flashpoints are great, and the late ones are great, but the ones in the middles are lackluster and disturbingly similar: go here. Kill mobs. kill a few bosses. use computer and decide whether to remotely do something evil or something nice. kill last boss. leave.
I think SWTOR will die. It could have been an amazing RPG, or it could have been a decent MMO. but instead it's a mediocre version of both. Personally, as an avid RPG and single player gamer, I can say it doesn't appeal to me in the long term.
And as a long time MMO player, I can say that It doesn't hold up to MMOs like LOTRO, WoW, or EQ and won't hold my interest.
(even though I couldn't care less about the MMO aspects of SWTOR really, I just wanted KOTOR III)
SWTOR broke my heart. IT's not a bad game, not by any means, but it is a overly hyped mediocre game. In my opinion, the devs flat out lied through their teeth or are just plain idiots when they claimed this would be an adequate KOTOR III for KOTOR fans.
EDIT: Lets not even get in to what the devs did to quite a few characters from the original games...if I had heard half of what they were doing with reven or HK when I was following it, I wouldn't have believed that the writers could be that foolish, but by the time I saw for myself, I was past caring.
Then it came out.
I enjoyed the class quest for a while. about till level 30, but SWTOR is NOT KOTOR III. it is a game with some elements of an MMO, and some elements of a RPG, but the RPG elements are soulless, and the MMO elements do not mesh well with the RPG style story. For instance, boss fights will be the same all the way to level 50. There are the Caster elite bosses, and the melee elite bosses, and every boss is just the same generic elite with a different skin. You will handle each boss in the same damn way every time. And well, if you want to level solo, which you can do, you need to do EVERY SINGLE QUEST AND BONUS SERIES. if you skip even a few, you will be underleveled, and after 30 levels the novelty of the voice acting starts to fade. it's still interesting, but so many quests are almost identical.
Your companions could have been the focusing point though. They could have help the RPG aspects together, but...guess what? remember the amazing plot and character development in the KOTOR I & II? not there. there are conversations, don't get me wrong, but they are linear and shallow. You never get to know or identify with them like in the original KOTOR games. there are a couple quests that get unlocked by these conversations, but they're short, shallow, and...well...pointless.
as for dungeons? flashpoints as they're called in SWTOR. well...on my server, which had ques, getting a group together for one of them took upwards of 30m. and well...when three people have been spamming general chat for 30m to get two more people, one of them usually gets bored or has to leave and the search continues. the flashpoints weren't really worth it anyway, truth be told. the early flashpoints are great, and the late ones are great, but the ones in the middles are lackluster and disturbingly similar: go here. Kill mobs. kill a few bosses. use computer and decide whether to remotely do something evil or something nice. kill last boss. leave.
I think SWTOR will die. It could have been an amazing RPG, or it could have been a decent MMO. but instead it's a mediocre version of both. Personally, as an avid RPG and single player gamer, I can say it doesn't appeal to me in the long term.
And as a long time MMO player, I can say that It doesn't hold up to MMOs like LOTRO, WoW, or EQ and won't hold my interest.
(even though I couldn't care less about the MMO aspects of SWTOR really, I just wanted KOTOR III)
SWTOR broke my heart. IT's not a bad game, not by any means, but it is a overly hyped mediocre game. In my opinion, the devs flat out lied through their teeth or are just plain idiots when they claimed this would be an adequate KOTOR III for KOTOR fans.
EDIT: Lets not even get in to what the devs did to quite a few characters from the original games...if I had heard half of what they were doing with reven or HK when I was following it, I wouldn't have believed that the writers could be that foolish, but by the time I saw for myself, I was past caring.
I with Smash (above) on the numbers dropping somewhat slowly not dramatically as time rolls on.
I've been playing off and on since launch and I find it to be a very tight well made game. It's evolutionary not revolutionary as many have said but I don't hold that aganist it as, for me, a game is either fun or it's not. If it's fun, well... game on! I do think because it's not the "new take on MMOs" however any games that come out that can push the envelope a bit more (and remain fun) will have an easier time pulling away some TOR players. Especially those that have played those games that seem most similar to TOR such as WoW and EQ2. Still the license alone will keep some players.
I'm really interested to see if GW2 has much effect on TOR. GW felt like such a niche title and I didn't take to it but the more I see of GW2 the more I've taken notice. I think it's looking strong. The Secret World looks interesting as well with its "no-class" system and I like the art direction but I've played enough Funcom MMOs to be skeptical until I actually sit down with it post-launch.
I've been playing off and on since launch and I find it to be a very tight well made game. It's evolutionary not revolutionary as many have said but I don't hold that aganist it as, for me, a game is either fun or it's not. If it's fun, well... game on! I do think because it's not the "new take on MMOs" however any games that come out that can push the envelope a bit more (and remain fun) will have an easier time pulling away some TOR players. Especially those that have played those games that seem most similar to TOR such as WoW and EQ2. Still the license alone will keep some players.
I'm really interested to see if GW2 has much effect on TOR. GW felt like such a niche title and I didn't take to it but the more I see of GW2 the more I've taken notice. I think it's looking strong. The Secret World looks interesting as well with its "no-class" system and I like the art direction but I've played enough Funcom MMOs to be skeptical until I actually sit down with it post-launch.
In every thread like this (and there is one for every MMO that fails to surpass WoW) someone says this. They point towards the next big one. Nothing wrong with doing that, but let's not kid ourselves. Guild Wars 2 is going to have to be amazing...not just good or great...absolutely f***ing amazing if its going to keep the initial fan base.ResonanceSD said:
Yeah. I'd only heard the name before until a few days ago, but after watching a bunch of gameplay videos (SWTOR taught me never to watch the cinematic until the game comes out: hype ruins games), I think it has that sort of potential.RomanceIsDead said:
for one, it's a true MMORPG, not a RPG with MMO elements, and for two....the PVE looks quite good, but god..the PVP. have you seen the open world map for PVP in GW2? It's bigger than Stormwind combined with EVERY SINGLE AREA AROUND IT in a circle whose diameter is equal to two areas.. oh my...in addition to that, it looks incredibly polished, even in closed beta, so I have high hopes for it. (I'm not a huge fan of MMOs lately: they've lost me in recent months, but this one may drag me back. I hope it turns out to be as good as it looks.)
As GW2 has no subscription fees it's a difficult game to "leave". I guess they could throw their hard drive away or something.Mr Cwtchy said:
What, that people eventually stop playing them?Mr Cwtchy said:
I guess it's a pretty safe bet that eventually people will stop playing any particular game. If boredom didn't settle in, you'd eventually die, making stopping inevitable.
Yes, it's inevitable. Just look at WAR, AoC and Rift's graphs. That's SW:TOR in a few months.
The only MMOs whose fanbases have been steadily increasing over the years are Second Life, EVE and Dofus - the ones that offer a completely different experience from WoW.
And yet you have BioWare's own Greg Zeschuk saying things like:
?[WoW] has established standards, it?s established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that?s pretty dumb." [http://www.tomshardware.com/news/World-of-Warcraft-SWTOR-Greg-Zeschuk-Mike-Morhaime-MMORPG,12174.html]
Mass fucking idiocy. To think what Richard Garriott could've done with $200 million.
Built another castle with 100 secret doors? Gone to the moon? Bought a pair of diamond studded leotards?Thoric485 said:
I really like Richard. Ultima is my favorite game series of all time. I will always respect and appreciate the 15+ years of amazing RPGs he gave me. But Richard Garriott is completely off his fucking rocker now. Have you heard the guy talk lately? He's a loon.
You forget the robot he uses to talk to his employees while working from home and his collection of several hundred antique automatons.BloatedGuppy said:
But, well, i've watched some interviews with him last year and he talked about things that are pretty close to my heart like non-combat roles in MMOs, interaction with the world, complex morality systems, the accessibility that browser games and F2P models provide.
I'm pretty sure anything he makes would contribute more to the genre than yet another WoW clone.