are MMORPGs the death of the single player RPG?

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RedElectric

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May 2, 2008
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I believe that there is a certain community appeal to MMOs as well. Take MUDs for example. These have been around FOREVER and while most give the option to go it alone, the most fun and the most content is found in the communities. Though i'd say that, in my limited experience, MUDs have more and do more to further plot and storylines than MMOs do, neither really are as focused on actually telling a story like a single-player RPG is.

And in my mind, that's how it should be.
 

Xvito

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Aug 16, 2008
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MMORPGs are usually quite different from normal RPGs (I.e Boring!!).
So I don't think MMORPGs are going to make RPGs die out.
Unless of course more people get the "Stupid Virus", with symptoms like, the constant urge of grinding and fetch quests...
 

DeadlyFred

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Aug 13, 2008
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Production costs higher for MMOGs? You don't even need writers, just a book of Create A Quest Mad Libs. Why would the base production costs be higher for a MMOG?
 

Bob_F_It

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May 7, 2008
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The main thing stopping MMOs being better than single player RPGs is that the business model revolves so much around grinding, not storytelling or gameplay like the latter does. The only realistic way to make the thousands of hours of gameplay that MMOs rack up is to force players to grind such times in.
The social aspect isn't much of a gem since you're either doing stuff on your own or being surrounded by twats.
 

Jordan Deam

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I think economics favor MMORPGs over single-player RPGs. Most single-player games succeed or fail based on their first week of sales - botch the launch, and the game never really recovers. Hype can make or break a game, and it's getting harder to get mass audiences excited for single-player RPGs (Bioware and Bethesda notwithstanding). MMORPGs, on the other hand, can sustain themselves over a longer period through recurring fee subscriptions or microtransactions - and unlike microtransactions in a game like Oblivion, they nearly make sense in a social setting.
 

Trace2010

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I do not believe that either MMORPGs or multiple chapter RPGs (ex. HACK) are going to eliminate that standard 40-80 hour RPG. I think there will still be enough players in the world who are not into online gaming (or get immediately turned off by it) that a single player, multiple character RPG with a solid (though UNREPETITIVE) storyline can't hook into playing. I also believe that there still will be too many adults with jobs that will be unable to devote the majority of their time to playing MMORPG's other than your casual weekend monster stomping- which in turn usually gets interrupted by the sports season of your choice.
 

Trace2010

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^Not to call anyone who plays MMORPGs jobless...and you don't have to be a player at a game to like a professional sports team or club.
 

ElegantSwordsman

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I used to be a huge fan of RPG's a few years back, mostly JRPG's but I played my fair share of western titles too. Then some buddies dragged me into Guild Wars and WoW along with some ghetto korean free ones. At first it was fun playing with other people I knew but didn't see often in real life, but more often than not, the sense of immersion you get from a quality single player RPG gets ruined by some douchebag that every MMO is plagued by. Spawn campers, kill stealers, scammers, sociopaths and just plain idiots who wouldn't know grammar and spelling if it jumped up and bit them in the ass... all of that can really ruin an experience. Still, I managed to slug through it all until I eventually lost all interest from the boredom of grind that drives all of these games' economy systems.

I thought I'd be glad to go back to single player RPG's after that and enjoy the basics of a well crafted story where I once again mattered to the world, instead of being a random ore miner in a world where everyone was basically working a second unpaid job. Since then I've tried my fair share of single player RPG's, but I have yet to clear a single one.

In the past I'd beat any godawful game just to get that little feeling of satisfaction and closure I get from seeing the story end. Even made it through FFVIII with that ridiculous system of drawing-out magic to power up your weapons... nearly didn't beat that one it was so boring. These days though, I just can't force myself to do it. All those hours of mind-numbing MMO grind has given me a vile hatred of all things boring. Only now, I lack the patience to slog through it so I usually end up quitting a game when I find it tedious and unrewarding.

So for me, MMO's have been the death of both single player and MMO RPG's, though someday I really hope I can get around to finishing Persona 3... it's practically begging me to go back to it. :p
 

Altorin

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May 16, 2008
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thebobmaster post=9.70929.708741 said:
If MMOs were going to be the death of single player RPGs, then single player RPGs would have died out with Everquest.
WoW has done things with the MMO genre that Everquest couldn't even dream of doing.

I know you'll probably argue that I'm dead wrong, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
 

TsunamiWombat

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Short Answer: No.

Long Answer: Different people like different things, so no. Some people enjoy the comraderie and progressive gains aspect of MMORPG's and thats perfectly fine for them, but the design of the medium makes it almost impossible to maintain certain things you'd get in a singleplayer RPG whilst preserving an equal and fun experiance for every player.

Self important excessivly long narcissistic answer, Part 1- The Insidiousness of the MMORPG:

MMORPG's are a combination of several pyschological tricks long recognized by Las Vegas Casino's and Pyschiatric Doctors which lead to an almost endless profit margin when utilized correctly. They are-

The Small Gains System: Human beings love to win- everyone loves a winner. Instinctivly the biggest most virile and dominant bastard in the room is considered to be the best and in our ancient history was the only one who got to breed, thus making the competition to be the 'winner' quite fierce indeed. The way an MMORPG and indeed almost all RPG's function is a small gains system wherein your actions- typically only those actions that pertain to murdering the local fauna en masse- generate 'experiance points' which when culminated to a certain point causes your character to gain a 'level'. This gained 'level' corresponds with an incremental increase in your characters basic attributes- their health, their ability to defend themselves and do damage, and the ability to use or opportunity to use new abilities of either a utility or offensive nature. These gained abilities are thus used to murder more fauna in order to climb to the next level- the ultimate of goal is of course to be the 'winner', however the way the game is constructed there never is a true "win" or "victory" because the whole point of the MMORPG is to keep you playing and creating a terminating storyline would terminate the gameplay of all their other consumers. Thus a string of faux rewards and stories are strung along for you to gobble up with slowly glowing prestige. This isn't necessarily a bad thing almost every game functions on this principle- after all one plays a game so they can do or become things they couldn't in real life and acting out violent fantasies of slaughtering hordes of goblins and riding a dragon into floating cities are high up there on the wishlist of all but the most determined 'cool people'. The issue with an MMORPG is theres no narrative growth or character development- your avatar in the end is nothing more then a mildly customised pile of numbers in a world that may be fleshed out in varying degree's but never to the extent it could be in a story tightly controlled for a single antagonist. This removes the immersion and intellectual appeal for many gamers and results in the feeling of a bland, artificial experiance which is only a system for taking your money. Mind you this is only one side of the equation- games have to be developed for the 'lowest common denominator', and by that I mean developers must design at least the majority of their area's with the gamer that (for some reason) isn't performing any extranious level grinding and is following their paperthin storyline dutifully. Because you don't NEED to level up to an excessive degree to play the majority of the games basic elements you would assume this system would be very ineffective at keeping people playing for hours at end but thats where the LOOT system comes into play.

The Loot System: Human beings respond to positive stimulus in a manner that creates a pyschological imprint that connotes the action you took with the positive reinforcement you recieve, in example "Eat Chocolate" = "Feel Good". Typically this is natures way of teaching us not to do incredibly stupid things by encouraging us to do GOOD things thus ensuring the survival of the species. But when you make the stimulus non conditionally dependent IE Chance based, you remove the ability to perform action X to recieve directly Y. However your brain still wants Y so you countinue to perform action X in hopes of getting Y. Much like a Casino slot machine you'll consistantly drop your money into the hole in the hopes of getting a big payout later on even though statistically you have very little chance of success. This same system is used in MMORPG's and Action RPG's such as Diablo for "Loot Drops", IE when you kill a monster it randomly drops money and an item whose type and quality depends on several unseen randomized factors possibly relating to your level, your class, the type of monster you just killed and what kind of shoes your wearing. All of this happens invisibly of course so you very typically have only the faintest idea of what's influencing your victory spoils. Now naturally anyone whose played games with this sort of reward system will immediatly note that most of the things you find are complete and utter crap, forcing you to perform Action X (in this example, slaughtering tons of creeps) over and over again in order to attain Reward Y- some shiny piece of loot or another that makes your character better putting you one step closer to being awesome. However there's always a better piece of loot to be found and they're increasingly rare, thus in order to garner the benefits and prestige of having this loot you must Grind both so you can manage the incredibly high level spawns sure to be carrying the best loot AND grind to repeat these spawns over and over again till they drop what you want. This is in the end just another representative of the inherent human desire to be the 'winner' and to prove all the time you've spent on the game meant something. You need loot to get levels and you need levels to get loot, providing a viscious circles that will keep you maiming orcs for weeks to come.

The Kicker: All of this wouldn't be so bad if not for the central facet of MMORPG's- they're intended to make money. Now certainly most games and indeed most things in this world are intended to make money, the producers create something and then provide it to the consumers in exchange for a profit. But with an MMO, you countinue to pay for the priveledge to use that product you already payed for. And because of the addictive qualities of these games due to the aformentioned pyschological hooks and conditioning, you WILL pay and you'll countinue to play over and over and over again because much like a gambling addict you've been conditioned to throw your money into the hole with the promise that something shiny awaits you at the end of your oddessy. But there never is an end, it just goes and goes, and you just pay and pay till the end of time. Thats why games like World of Warcraft give out free 1 week offers because they're confident the tried and tested pyschological hooks inherent in their game design will compel you to countinue after your free time is up and fork over tons and tons of cash. If you want to pay a ton of money to pay a game that offers little real intellectual stimulus then I wish you well, after all there's nothing inherently wrong with it- many people pay games simply so they don't have to think for a while. However, I and a few others appreciate a more intellectually stimulating experiance that provides a story structure and character development and above all something that doesn't both compel and force me to play in equal measure while sucking the money out of my pocket.
 

TsunamiWombat

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Self important excessivly long narcissistic answer, Part 2- As opposed to what?:

Well that was a fine screen wide mountain of BS but what does it all amount to? Fundamentally, MMORPG's are more about the experiance of you represented by your avatar becoming awesome (in game terms) more then anything else. They also tend to be dependent on other people to have fun- obviously, thats the point of being "massivly multiplayer". Thus by design they are typically simpler to play (having been designed for a wider audience) at least on the basic level, and somewhat shallow in narrative because it wouldn't make sense for there to be 12,481,380 people running around on the server and having each and every one of them being the "Chosen One" Equipped with the one and only "Sword of Predictable Awesomeness" wielded only by the "Future King of all Fantasy Land". Your character is typically downgraded to joe schmoe everyman hero- one of many in a massive army opposed to whatever it is your massive army is opposed to.

A Singleplayer RPG on the otherhand typically includes defined characters with their own thoughts, feelings, and dialogue. You lose the immersion of being the hero but you gain the added benefit of being able to watch a real story unfold before you. You live vicariously through your protagonist and watch as he or she develops both emotionally and physically. And while the gameplay elements of a MMORPG and a RPG are typically much the same- kill things to gain levels and equipment, use these levels and equipment to kill more things and so on and so forth. However the purpose of all this mass murder is typically tied up in the narrative in a singleplayer RPG- your a genocidal maniac with a heroic purpose, and your character development both in terms of levels and equipment is typically dictated by your location in the story and the world which scales to be increasingly harder for you as you progress. Conversly, the whole point of levels and equipment in MMORPG's is just to gain more levels and equipment. In the end the biggest difference is NARRATIVE.

Admittedly MMORPG's offer the ability to do things you couldn't in a singleplayer game- function cooperativly or competetivly with your fellow human beings. The whole point is to get on and have fun killing monsters and people with your freinds and smacktalking on the forums about how lame the other teams's guild is.

In the end, Single Player RPG's are for gamers who want to both read a book and play a videogame at the same time- mind numbing entertainment without the mind numbing. They play almost exactly the same - with the exception of the multiplayer aspect of an MMORPG - but their audiences and goals are widely different. The Single Player RPG will never die so long as there are self important intellectual nerds who don't like to have to associate with other human beings to feed their addiction for "Casino Gameplay" and like to have more then the pretense of a storyline surrounding their adventure so they can pretend they're artsy and smart.

Really, the only genre that ever has and ever will die is the point and click adventure game and all you Monkey Island fanboys can just deal with it.
 

ThePlasmatizer

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I have to say no, in a single player rpg the characters help you immerse yourself deeper in the story and in the world and putting you right in the character's shoes, you just can't do that with mmorpg's because although it's fun to play with real people it doesn't meet that level of immersion and I haven't seen many mmorpg's where everyone plays consistently in-character.
 

mark_n_b

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Mar 24, 2008
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MMORPG's are not the death of any game genre. They are their own game type, with their own particulars. Some people like them, some people not so much for a lot of different reasons.

In gaming MMORPG's and FPS's are the trendy genres. This will pass to be replaced by something else (I'm guessing platformers and action) you can already see the FPS beginning its cool down cycle. MMORPG's are still on the upswing, this will change.

Bear in mind that there will always be FPS and MMORPG games out there as well, it's not about one or the other dying, its a matter of how often new titles of the genre will become available.
 

Aeviv

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Jun 13, 2008
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I agree with what Yahtzee says, its the endless grinding in MMORPGs that gets me. Take World of warcraft- great game, apart from the ammount of ganking that goes on, but there are many things that mean id rather play Morrowind