Are modern console killing Final Fantasy?

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Tarkand

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I used to love Squaresoft and Final Fantasy. I'd get excited every time I heard about one of their game coming. But with time passing, I started to care less and less and while I still played their games, they just weren't as fun.

I figured my taste just changed and the pink glasses of nostalgia simply make me remember those older games as better than they really were.

But what if isn't the case? What if S-E is really have a problem keeping up with the time?

Back in the days...

Simpler graphics meant there was only so much you could do to 'wow' the crowd. While FF games were always beautiful games, merely having beautiful 16bits sprites on the screen wouldn't sell a game. The story and gameplay needed to be good as well. Nowadays, it feels S-E is under the Micheal Bay school of design (Who cares about plot, just throw in a lot of explosion and giant robots!).

This was in the infancy of the RPG style of game, things were different and many concept hadn't evolved yet - nobody would complain about a 'grind' in FFV for example... because 'a grind' wasn't something that had been really identified or qualified yet. And it was an expected and accepted part of any rpg. To me, it often seems like S-E's game designer mindset is stuck firmly in the 90s.

Limited sound technology also meant voice acting wasn't possible, which removed the possibility of horrendous voice acting, which S-E has almost become a synonym for when it comes to translated version of the games.

This combined with limited storage technology also meant you had to keep everything to the point and concise. Everything being in text often made the story much easier to follow and S-E now labyrinth like story were actually understandable. I certainly don't remember the 'Wait? What? Who the fuck is that guy? What the hell is going on? Why the hell am I even going there?' moments of FFVII, FFX or FFXIII in older version like III, IV or VI. Nor were the protagonist 'Dream Ghost Football player of a dead city who came to this world to fight their dad who turn out to be satan' ...

I'm not even going to touch the atrocities that are FFXI and FFXIV...

What S-E needs I guess, is a return to form. If your plot is shallow and simple... have fun with it, don't try and make it seem deep and clever with half-spoken insinuation and plot-retarded characters (A good example of this is FFIX, which was a return to the game's root in many way, and imo, probably the best FF since they changed their media from cartridges to disk)... and they need to remember that beautiful (and plentiful) cutscenes don't make for a good game.

In any case, S-E's business numbers certainly indicate that they need to do something.

The gamble here, is that people now expect this kind of stuff from them, and going back to form might actually alienate the fans that have stuck with them through their downward spiral... and it might be too late to drag back the fans they've lost anyway.

Before the flame start pouring in, this isn't a generalization about jrpg. A lot jrpg fans tell me FF is actually a bad jrpg series and that they are gems out there that I simply don't know about. While that may be true, it must still stink for you guys to see the flagship serie of a genre drag the entire genre down with it.
 

rockyoumonkeys

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Well, no.

Modern consoles aren't killing Final Fantasy.

Square Enix is killing Final Fantasy.

They're trying to do too much. They're focusing way too much on the presentation, and not nearly enough on story and gameplay.

But to be fair, FFXII is one of my favorite games of all time, and easily my favorite FF game. So I don't completely agree with what I'm saying.
 

Tarkand

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rockyoumonkeys said:
They're trying to do too much. They're focusing way too much on the presentation, and not nearly enough on story and gameplay.

But to be fair, FFXII is one of my favorite games of all time, and easily my favorite FF game. So I don't completely agree with what I'm saying.
That's my point thought! They're only doing that because they have the ability to do it now. They didn't before.

In short, FF were better game when they had to work within the confine of limited technology. Now that 'the sky is the limit' and they can go crazy with 25 disk per games... the game have dropped off greatly in quality (IMO anyway).
 

Jazoni89

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No because all of the talent that was in square left and founded mistwalker.

Now that's the straight forward reason why final fantasy sucks nowadays.
 

eggy32

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Tarkand said:
rockyoumonkeys said:
They're trying to do too much. They're focusing way too much on the presentation, and not nearly enough on story and gameplay.

But to be fair, FFXII is one of my favorite games of all time, and easily my favorite FF game. So I don't completely agree with what I'm saying.
That's my point thought! They're only doing that because they have the ability to do it now. They didn't before.

In short, FF were better game when they had to work within the confine of limited technology. Now that 'the sky is the limit' and they can go crazy with 25 disk per games... the game have dropped off greatly in quality (IMO anyway).
Then it's still their fault. They have the potential to make amazingly detailed visuals and custcenes that last an hour over a million disks but they don't have to. They don't have to have their graphics the best in the world or terribly long cutscenes. If they're going overboard then it's their own fault.
 

warm slurm

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Jazoni89 said:
No because all of the talent that was in square left and founded mistwalker.

Now that's the straight forward reason why final fantasy sucks nowadays.
Haha, pretty much, really. Lost Odyssey is 100x better than Final Fantasy XIII.
 

Manji187

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Wasn't IX Sakaguchi's favorite?

And now he's working on a game called "The Last Story"....guess nostalgia got to him too.

Lol, can you say...The Last Story XIII?
 

Sehnsucht Engel

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Nah. Final Fantasy has never been good in my eyes, maybe the first three, but after that it was the same thing over and over, and there was better games for me to play.
 

ReservoirAngel

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I don't think so.

Admittedly I have played FFX, FFXI or FFXII, but I don't think modern consoles are killing them.

Final Fantasy VI is my favourite, but VII, VIII, IX are by no means bad games (I actually do really like them), and from what I've played and/or seen of FFXIII it's still a really good game, but just happens to include detailed graphics in cinematic cutscenes because...it can. And they look awesome, and generally are awesome.
 

Netrigan

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Movies have the same problem. Too many directors throw in these big, over-the-top CGI spectacles, even though the unreality of the effects hampers immersion. Meanwhile, better directors are using the same tools to make incredible movies. Not every scene needs a star wipe.
 

warm slurm

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Wenseph said:
Nah. Final Fantasy has never been good in my eyes, maybe the first three, but after that it was the same thing over and over, and there was better games for me to play.
lol have you ever played a final fantasy game
 

illas

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Tarkand said:
Nowadays, it feels S-E is under the Micheal Bay school of design (Who cares about plot, just throw in a lot of explosion and giant robots!).
Yes. Yes. Yes.
S-E seem more focused on the presentation of their games (audio and video) than emotional engagement. More "this will be cool" more than "this will make people care".

With that said, they're at the 13th (14th? 15th?) follow-up to the original, so perhaps the fundamental aspects of the narrative and characters are just suffering from diminishing returns. While S-E have innovated (to an extent) with the gameplay, the elements which emotionally engage people remain fairly generic, and have moved on very little from the FFV.
 

AmzRigh

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Dec 9, 2010
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FFXI, an atrocity? Clearly you haven't played it. The plot may not quite stand up to its brethren (though it far exceeds most MMOs in that respect), but the world is just so vibrant and alive. The world of Vana'diel is deeper and more fully realized than any other Final Fantasy.

I'm not going to say that FFXI is my favorite FF -- to compare them so directly is impossible -- but comparing the quality of world construction, it becomes quite clear. Most people will agree that one among IV, VI and VII is the best game in the series. But examine their worlds: generic fantasy, generic gaslamp fantasy, generic post-dieselpunk, all with a splash (or more) of magic. And that's alright, because it was the characters and events that made those games.

But being an MMO, FFXI has to shift focus: no longer can the story effectively be told as characters in the context events. Instead, it must be events in the context of the world, which it pulls off beautifully.

(Of course, it's no wonder that that's the case -- an MMO is still in development even after it's released. The world gets richer with every update, and they've had more than five years of updates and expansions to build it up. At release, I'm pretty sure Vana'diel was moderately interesting at best. But did it ever grow!)

[EDIT] (Also worth noting, FFX's Spira was a wonderfully constructed world. It had good reason to be: the world was a key player in the story. It was really more "characters in the world" than "characters in events." It was FF's Road Movie.)
 

Sehnsucht Engel

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warm slurm said:
Wenseph said:
Nah. Final Fantasy has never been good in my eyes, maybe the first three, but after that it was the same thing over and over, and there was better games for me to play.
lol have you ever played a final fantasy game
I've played several. The first five, seven and ten. The battle system is horrible, makes me stay away just because of it.