Are publishers racist or hate Europe ?

[Stavros Dimou]

Lets use Nintendo 3ds as an example.

It cost 250 dollars in the U.S.A.
In Japan it costs 25000 yen.
In Europe it cost 250 euros.

Let's translate the values of euros and yen to U.S. dollars.

25.000 yen = 309.2 US dollars
250 euros = 355.02 US dollars.

It's called VAT and import tax.

What he said.

Guys, when you buy a game, look at the receipt you get. In Europe, it gives you the net price of the game, and then, adds VAT. Which in most European countries is around 15-20%. And only then does it tell you what you actually ended up paying. Although I am guessing by the OP's handle that he is Greek, which means he pays hardly any taxes at all. And on the Continent, the advertised price almost always includes VAT, unlike, say, sales tax in America, where it is added to the RRP at the cashier's.

At any rate, without the ~19% VAT in Germany or France, a ?250 DS would be around ?205, whereas in, say, California, you would have to ADD the 8.25% sales tax to the DS's $250 retail price, bringing it up to around $270. If Germans and French paid 8.25% sales tax instead of 19 or 19.6% VAT, then the DS's price in Germany or France would be around ?220, or $310 by today's exchange rate. Now the difference is just $40, not over $100. See how this works? That $60+ goes to the government, not the manufacturer or retailer; why should they make less money on a product just because different governments demand different amounts of taxation?

Not to mention the fact that despite the best efforts of the Greeks, Irish and Portuguese to sabotage the value of the Euro, its exchange rate agaist the USD is still very very high; however, back in the early oughts, it used to be almost 1:1, not 1.4:1 as it is today.

You also mentioned the fact that many of the products in question were made in China: regarding this, Europe has very high anti-dumping tariffs. If you ever ordered something expensive made in China over the internet from outside the EU, then you would have had to pay those tariffs at your local customs office, in addition to the VAT. Again, not if you lived in Greece, though.

"He's greek which means he hardly pays any taxes at all".
What's that ? LOL
Don't bring that ignorant and discriminative bull**** to me.
We are the only country in E.U. that has VAT 23% at absolutely everything.At most countries things like food or medical supplies aren't even taxed,or are taxed with a lower tax rate than the standard.
Here everything is taxed and everything has the same high rate which is 23%
But lets don't get off topic.
I'm saying that generally various things and not only 3ds,are more expensive in Europe than in other places,and that the difference is so big it's cheaper for some people to buy from a foreign store and pay interatlantic shipment and fees than buying from your local store.

 

[Marmooset]

Spoiler

Yes we are. And to put it in a nutshell, the main difference is that Europeans aren't perceived as yelling "WE'RE #1! WHOOOOOOO!" in people's faces all the time.

Don't get me wrong, I have American family members, and I lived in Chicago for quite some time and loved it, but there is a world of difference between Americans and Europeans. Not saying that one is "better" than the other, but we are very different.

It's basically arrogance versus disdain. Not as different as you might like.

That depends entirely on whether the arrogance is warranted or not. Again, Half my family is American, and they are people who have travelled the world, gone to good schools, and actually know things. Now, none of them is what one would call an "ugly American". Why? Because they've lived in London, Paris, Tokyo or Amsterdam, and know that there are many great things about other countries, as well.

I think that the problem many have with that particular American brand of patriotism is that it comes so often - and most fervently - from those who have nothing with which to compare their own country. And therein lies the difference; many Americans simply assume that "USA is #1" because they don't know any better, like the kid who thinks that his daddy is the strongest man in the world, which for him is made up of about six people. Nobody, least of all I, is disputing that America is a great nation; but so is Britain, so is Japan, so is Germany.

The root of the difference is that our countries are packed so closely together: I know exactly ZERO Europeans who have never been outside their own country and therefore lack a tertium comparationis. Americans? Well, fully TWO THIRDS of them do not even own a passport...

Still, I think that we should leave it at that; this discussion is still civil and educated, but it has been my experience that convos like this do not stay that way for long.

Again, I do not argue the arrogance issue. I am questioning the disdain. You have pigeonholed 300 milion people based upon anecdotal evidence coupled with a statistic about passports[footnote]If you really need me to explain why application of this statistic in this case is specious, let me know. But I'm guessing you already grasp it.[/footnote], and - in the same breath - criticize this presumed single-minded populace for assumptions. Congratulations! You are now a stereotypical ugly American by proxy!

Seriously, I have lived in the U.S. for many years, been steeped in its culture, and have encountered thousands of its inhabitants. Many of them fit your assessment to a 'T' - but many more do not. I've had to come to grips with the fact that many groups are not as I have preconceived them over the years, and will likely have to continue to do so. But the short fact is despite all my experiece with the people, I am nowhere near able to quantify them with a single formula. I am impressed - no, amazed - that you, with a much more limited window on the culture, have managed to do so.

I do not believe based upon the statements of yourself and other Escapists that all Europeans hold the US in disdain simply because of what's presented to them. At least, I hope that's not the case.

 

[Laxman9292]

I was going to make a post that agreed with you while making a "stupid American" joke or two and a "greedy dev" joke or three but "racistic"?
Really man?

O.K. maybe it wasn't the right word as europeans or americans and whatever aren't really races,but I meant that there are unfair distinctions made,which is also what happens in racism.

Not the right word?
It's not a word at all.
The word you were looking for would be rasist, though bigoted would be better, though still not quite right for the context.

Learn to spell. http://merriam-webstercollegiate.com/thesaurus/racist

http://merriam-webstercollegiate.com/thesaurus/rasist?show=0&t=1300892453

 

[DTWolfwood]

What is your average domestic income?

Here id say around $30,000-$50,000 per person.

If you're making about the same in euro, than the price is fair, if not, well sux to be you guys

Its not about the exchange rate, its about the relative cost to income. (although the american based publishers are making a killing selling to yall on that matter lol)

Plus aren't all europeans rich?

[small]if you didn't catch the sarcasm in that last line, you're command of english is lacking[/small]

Unfortunately it's less.
Depending on the country,the two extremes are these:

lowest average : 8400 euros
highest average: 21400 euros

(based on average month's wage multiplied 12 times.)

ouch that is harsh. well in that case they really are ripping you off.

Forgot to mention the import/export tariffs that publishers have to pay. maybe its another reason y it cost so much more there \/

You can always try to have it shipped from the US, if you don't mind English. the shipping cost and the game should still be less than buying the game at your retail stores from the looks of it.

 

[Stavros Dimou]

"He's greek which means he hardly pays any taxes at all".
What's that ? LOL
Don't bring that ignorant and discriminative bull**** to me.
We are the only country in E.U. that has VAT 23% at absolutely everything.At most countries things like food or medical supplies aren't even taxed,or are taxed with a lower tax rate than the standard.
Here everything is taxed and everything has the same high rate which is 23%
But lets don't get off topic.
I'm saying that generally various things and not only 3ds,are more expensive in Europe than in other places,and that the difference is so big it's easier for some people to buy from a foreign store and pay interatlantic shipment and fees than buying from your local store.

Mate, all the things I said in that post, and all you take away from it is an off-handed dig to get cross about? Come on now. And if I did hurt your feelings, I do apologise. However, do kindly ask your countrymen to stop sending bombs to the Federal Chancellory because we actually dare set conditions to giving you billions and billions in loans... Remember that us Germans have to work until we're 67, after all.

On topic, again, companies do not set currency exchange rates or cause inflation. When the ?-US$ exchange rate was close to 1:1, we actually paid less for games than Americans did. Nobody was complaining then. As a matter of fact, games didn't get more expensive for us - mostly, the greenback went in the shitter, so they stayed largely the same price for us Euros while getting cheaper for Americans, if you adjust for inflation.

I see your point at the second part of your post,but regarding the billions..
Don't you know what is happening ?
Greek people doesn't govern Greece.
The government we voted for gave full power and authority to the IMF to completely do whatever it want until their money is payed back.
The IMF controls every single penny the state has,and they will do that until they get their money back.
Terrible decision,isn't it ?
But guess what ? The longer Greece will take to pay back,the more the interest! and they (the IMF) want interest fees because that's their job in first place.
Every single thing that they changed isn't helping at all the situation we are having,but the exact opposite: Since IMF took over control we are going from bad to worse.
They are destroying our economy so they will have to confiscate everything in this place.
And if there is one that is responsible for "bombs" that's the IMF because for 14 months now it has absolute control over our ministries.
There is no such a thing as a "Greek government" right now,get it!
Our politicians doesn't make decisions anymore,they just announce what the IMF decides.
They are illegal according to our constitution for "high treason",and whenever people see them they throw them things,and if there wasn't a police squad of 10 to 40 cops for every single one of them the people would lynch them.
Greece is the first country ruled by an International Bank,it's not conspiracy theory it already happened.
If you are curious about my source,then just use google and search for the complete text of the memorandum Greece signed with the IMF.

So from now and on please point all of your complaints regarding Greece's policies to the IMF.

 

[Who Dares Wins]

This is a very funny topic because a Nintendo DS in my town costs about 500$, so there you have it, you shouldn't complain. (An iPhone 4g is 1300$, I think)

 

[PureChaos]

in the UK i think it's selling at around £200, which is around $320-ish

EDIT: just checked Amazon, it's £187 on there

and 200 quid is 300+ euros
your calculation has gone wrong somewhere I believe
since 1 euro at most translates into 70 P
which would be a third out making it 266 (roughly) in euros
And 1 euro translates into 1.50 dollars on average
adding 133 to this equasion
Making 200 quid 399 dollars

sure these rates vary but you can see my point here

For some reason however I think the pound scales differently to the dollar than the euro does in contrast, but for a european this is the equasion

Which means that the british pay a little too much and that the europeans are just blatantly fucked

just used a converter and £200 was $325, $302 for £187 but, as you say, exchange rates vary.

 

[Krion_Vark]

*SNIP*

Go try ordering something from Japan yourself the SHIPPING is insane. The reason the prices are ranged so much is customs/shipping.

 

[Stavros Dimou]

Games are double or even triple their price in USA here in Norway. Seems we're the Australia of Europe.

This is true. We get that largely because we're a socialist country with high incomes and even higher standards of living, as such our taxes are ginormous. And we're also terribly complacent and never complain.

Yay.

I envy you (the good way) for that matter.
From what I read on Wikipedia your VAT is 25% which is only 2% more than ours that is 23%,and you have so much better public services and care.
Your politicians actually spend the money they gather from taxes to things of public interest,while here they spend them to buy new cars and houses and they don't go in jail because judges are corrupted and get bribed.

 

[moretimethansense]

I was going to make a post that agreed with you while making a "stupid American" joke or two and a "greedy dev" joke or three but "racistic"?
Really man?

O.K. maybe it wasn't the right word as europeans or americans and whatever aren't really races,but I meant that there are unfair distinctions made,which is also what happens in racism.

Not the right word?
It's not a word at all.
The word you were looking for would be rasist, though bigoted would be better, though still not quite right for the context.

Learn to spell. http://merriam-webstercollegiate.com/thesaurus/racist

http://merriam-webstercollegiate.com/thesaurus/rasist?show=0&t=1300892453

Already beaten to it I'm afraid, I know how to spell I just had a bit of a brain fart.

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

Well it looks like you saw through their dastardly plan. They were trying to con Europeans out of their money because they hate you so much.

What? Racist? European hating? How is you having a different price then other parts of the world racist? Is it fair? I don't know, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I don't know all the factors that went into the pricing.

But come on, they aren't out to get you.

 

[Declan Skews]

You forgot Australia. Our dollar matches America's and we're still paying almost twice the price for games for apparently no reason.

In addition to some of the other quotes (or at least one other quote) of your post, the price in Australia is also probs due to the fact that you have one or two slightly d***ish rating board members. The devs obviously need extra chocolate and red bull to deal with them and all those extra goodies have to be paid for by someone

On a serious note, I do agree that the situation, as you have described it, is wrong.

 

[Kortney]

snip

Yes, it is because they hate you and your race.

It has nothing to do with the probable thousands of other reasons.

You forgot Australia. Our dollar matches America's and we're still paying almost twice the price for games for apparently no reason.

Australians pay more for games because of parallel import restrictions. I'm fairly sure.

 

[Mr C]

You're forgetting to factor in all the taxes and fees the company is going to have to pay to simply ship the product. America hits two oceans, Japan is a bunch of islands and most of our games are probably made in China or India (physically) which also sit in pretty good spots aquatically. Australia is a long one-way trip for a smaller install base and who knows what kind of hoops devs have to hop through to get to European countries. Is that a great excuse? No. I'm sure that's not the whole problem, but just look how expensive DICE are in Eastern Europe.

No games are made in China, piracy is rife here. Asian games officially sold in Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong are mostly produced in Singapore, Japan in Japan. US games were mostly printed in Mexico once upon a time (not sure now). European games are printed in the EU, at least the few I picked up last time I was in the UK claimed - check the back out the packaging where the barcode can be found.