Are Racist and Sexist jokes ok if they are used purely in a joking manner?

[Tim Mazzola]

I still have never stated that Duke was satire of over-the top adolescent-pandering violence.

I quoted you saying it, then saying that you didn't say it. I bolded it in both places. Look again. It's there.

As for the rest of your comments, I don't think of Duke Nukem as a deconstructionist. I don't think that Derrida would have much use for him. I explained how the Wayans brothers movies were analogous. I think you give Duke far too much credit for being sophisticated than it has warranted. A great many hacks have created material that was offensive for controversy's sake (a sure sign that one is not a member of the "art" club), then said later in its defense that it was satire. When intelligent satire is created, its author never has to say so, because others will point it out. I can run through my workplace high as a kite (mods: I don't indulge in illicit substances) playing grab-ass, and then claim that it's satire. That's a cop-out.

Also, how does aping the Ash lines from the Evil Dead movies (and not paying them for it or crediting the author) fit in with your idea that it is satire?

Just looked back and uh, nope I never said it. (1)You quoted me saying that Duke Nukem was NOT satire of over-the-top adolescent-pandering violence, but never that it WAS.

(2)Also, never said he was a deconstructionIST, I said he was a deconstruction. (3)I also never said it was sophisticated. Just because something is satirical does not make it sophisticated. (4)You are putting A LOT of words in my mouth, sir. (5)And yes, you explained how the Wayan's movies were analogous in a completely nonsensical and irrelevant way that completely failed to explain how they were analogous by simply having no basis in reality or actual explanation. All you've said are "they're both bad satirists." Then I went on to explain how they're different. Again, I'm just repeating myself, but: "The Wayan's movies satire by making crappy, pointless references that you're supposed to laugh at because it's a reference. Duke deconstructs and makes fun of one specific character archetype." I never said "sophistacted" and never said "deconstructionist." (6)I said "deconstruct", as in, destroys and rebuilds (to ridiculous proportions) the trope. (7)Pointless references and trope deconstruction are 2 completely different things. (8)Pointless references is when some random famous icon appears on Family Guy or a scene is copied from some movie and you're supposed to laugh because it's a direct reference to something. (9)Duke Nukem is more analogous to Archer or pretty much any Mel Brooks movie. The humor lies in the fact that it is a humorous caricature of a certain genre or archetype, not from a cheap laugh because Harry Potter just walked on frame. (10)Again, I'm not saying Duke Nukem is great or sophisticated or anything, but comparing it to Wayan's movies is unfair, insulting, and shows that you really have no idea what you're talking about (11)vis-a-vis the purpose of Duke Nukem, and honestly, on account of your closed mind in this situation, the loss is yours.

This sort of willful disregard for rational thought could only possibly be t-rolling.

(1) I bolded both. You know this because you removed the first bolded part. But you can't edit my post, and it's still there (page 5, I believe?).
(2) It's clear you don't understand the distinction. Is he an accidental deconstruction? Also, how is he broken down?
(3) No, you didn't. Every statement I make is not a "you said this" statement. It's clear from your post that you think it's sophisticated, like all good, true satire is.
(4) I feel so sorry for you.
(5) "That doesn't make sense! You're insane!" ...is not an argument.
(6) There's a rule in comedy that's so well known that stand ups use it in their routines. If you deconstruct a joke, you ruin it. It's no longer funny. Comedians are not post-modernists. Now I wonder if you know what "destroy" and "rebuild" mean. Duke doesn't "rebuild" anything. Again, you're giving it far too much credit for being sophisticated. It's just pandering, kind of like a Wayans movie.
(7) Yes, I know.
(8) Oh, my god, are you really going to define "deconstruction" (wrongly) again? And now I get to hear the definition of "pointless reference?" Now that's a failed analogy. So duke tickling an orifice and saying "coochie coo" is a clever reference? How is it a reference at all?
(9) While we're talking to each other like the kid from Jerry MacGuire, an analogy is a comparison of relationships, and requires 4 subjects.
(10) And yet you compared it to Archer.
(11) Vis-a-vis? Really? Wow, you must have gone to school

(1) Nope. Keep going back, and you did no such thing. You bolded me saying that it WASN'T, but never that it was.
(2) Why does that even matter?
(3) I never even implied sophistication. "Satire" does not imply "sophistication" by any means. The Simpsons is satire, but I would never call it sophisticated.
(4) You feel sorry for me because I point out facts? REAL mature.
(5) Except I never implied you didn't make sense, or that you were insane.
Again, FOR THE THIRD TIME!
"The Wayan's movies satire by making crappy, pointless references that you're supposed to laugh at because it's a reference. Duke deconstructs and makes fun of one specific character archetype."
THAT is the argument. NOTHING in there says that your argument did not make sense or was insane, it simply points out that you clearly didn't read what I said before.
(6) http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Deconstruction
(7) Well, you keep saying they're the same by claiming that Duke Nukem and the Wayan's films are similar, so you clearly don't.
(8) I never said that was a "clever" reference or a reference at all.
(9) http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/analogy
(10) Again with you and things that are completely irrelevant... what do my statement and your corresponding one have to do with each other in any capacity?
(11) Making fun of my grammar. REAL mature. Next you're gonna compare to me to the nazis or some other 5-year-old crap like that.

Is this thread still around? The Nazis must be keeping it going...

(1)I like how your dictionary definition link backs me up

(2)Troll on, you crazy diamond, or something. And keep usin' them thar big words. One day you'll have mastery over them.

(3)Duke Nukem isn't satire.

(1) Your definition of analogy: "a comparison of relationships with 4 subjects." The dictionary definition is "inference that if two or more things agree with one another in some respects they will probably agree in others", therefore, it was I who used the correct definition.
(2) What big words?! Again, making fun of my grammar. REAL mature. You seem to make me repeat myself a lot.
(3) Which you've continuously failed to prove. I have continuously stated facts, and you've continuously gone "No, you're wrong and insane and I'm gonna make up that you said this and that means I'm right!" This is pointless. I defend art, and you attack it is all that I see here. You are trying REALLY HARD to vehemently despise something that I'm just trying to explain, not even defend or praise. Lighten up, dude.

 

[ms_sunlight]

Firstly, no joke exists in a cultural background. We live in a racist, sexist society; racist and sexist jokes exist in the context of a culture of oppression. It's not a question of "words can never hurt me", it's a question of systematic, institutionalised discrimination. Racist and sexist jokes are part of that spectrum and they contribute to and help to uphold the toxic status quo. They're a way of telling racists and sexists its okay to be bigoted and do the other stuff that's not so "funny".

Asking your one black friend or one woman friend or one gay friend if they personally are offended or hurt is not a statistically valid sample. Besides, even if they are a bit offended they may well be polite about it because, well, they're your friend.

Secondly, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... You might not think you're racist, but if you sound racist and I don't know you I'm going to think you're racist. I won't be offended or upset or hurt, I will simply form a negative opinion of you. I will think you're a prat and will try to avoid having any doings with you because you are functionally indistinguishable from racists and bigots. Maybe you don't care about me. You don't know me. But sooner or later me or someone like me is going to be in a position to influence your life for the good or the bad.

Thirdly, if you think racist or sexist jokes are funny, are you really sure you're actually not racist or sexist? Are you sure you're culturally aware enough to really declare that you're truly not a bigot? Go read some stuff. Go learn something. Go understand how you have privilege and what that means.

 

[MassiveGeek]

A few weeks back I was in Social Studies with my friend and I see this vocabulary word. The word was Equal Rights Admenment. (The one for women). I then go "Hey wanna see a good joke." And then I point at the word. Is this okay that I did this. I don't think there is anything wrong with equal rights with women. I just thought it was funny. So opinions?

I'm a woman, and I lol'd.

This is really a rather difficult question though, I personally don't have much against racist/sexist/untasteful jokes in general, as long as they're not downright degrading or anything of the like then it's most likely alright with me.
I do have to say that I think people can be far too easily offended, in our modern day you need at least moderatly thick skin and the ability to take a fucking joke.

 

[funguy2121]

snippity snip

I just thought you might find this informative. It's from a person who actually played Duke Nukem Forever.

The relevant post is 37), the second post down, from Geo da Sponge.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.290607-Returning-Duke-Nukem-after-one-day?page=2#11532664

So it's not Comedy Central Presents Duke Nukem Forever With Jon Stewart. It's not Community or Mr. Show with Bob & David. It's...just a bunch of references. It's the shock jocks you hear when you drive out into the sticks who think that John Wayne Bobbit and Monica Lewinsky jokes are still fresh and sexy. It's cannibal comedy, and it's super-duper lame, bra

...which is kind of like a Wayans Brothers movie.

 

[agnosticOCD]

Forgive me for opening with a quote but...

"I've always held the belief that the only way to combat offensive content is to not be offended. It's our negative, hurt, upset reaction that gives offensive content the advantage. Why are racial slurs so powerful, for example? It's because of how we react to them. If we could casually write off such slurs, or even learn to laugh at how inherently meaningless and silly they truly are, then racists would be robbed of their biggest weapon." - Jim Sterling

So, yeah. Sure, make a joke any time. As long as it's funny, and it really is just a joke, it's fine. But people WILL be offended eventually, and if they are, they ought to try to get some wisdom from the guy most of us don't seem to like. In the end, it's just one joke that will be forgotten once everybody gets home for the night.

 

[Tim Mazzola]

snippity snip

I just thought you might find this informative. It's from a person who actually played Duke Nukem Forever.

The relevant post is 37), the second post down, from Geo da Sponge.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.290607-Returning-Duke-Nukem-after-one-day?page=2#11532664

So it's not Comedy Central Presents Duke Nukem Forever With Jon Stewart. It's not Community or Mr. Show with Bob & David. It's...just a bunch of references. It's the shock jocks you hear when you drive out into the sticks who think that John Wayne Bobbit and Monica Lewinsky jokes are still fresh and sexy. It's cannibal comedy, and it's super-duper lame, bra

...which is kind of like a Wayans Brothers movie.

Ah, ok then... again, I obviously haven't played Duke Nukem Forever. I was more talking about the earlier games in the series.

To me, this just shows that the team working on DNF didn't really get why people liked the older Duke Nukems. It's probably at least somewhat a symptom of being a long-awaited sequel. The series has probably deteriorated into fan service. I was trying to point out what I believed to be the original intent of the Duke Nukem series, not what it may or may not have become.

 

[EinTheCorgi]

I always make sexist jokes to my Girl and even my daughter but they dont get offended because I do everything women are usually expected to do. I clean, do the laundry even make the samiches.

 

[EinTheCorgi]

Firstly, no joke exists in a cultural background. We live in a racist, sexist society; racist and sexist jokes exist in the context of a culture of oppression. It's not a question of "words can never hurt me", it's a question of systematic, institutionalised discrimination. Racist and sexist jokes are part of that spectrum and they contribute to and help to uphold the toxic status quo. They're a way of telling racists and sexists its okay to be bigoted and do the other stuff that's not so "funny".

Asking your one black friend or one woman friend or one gay friend if they personally are offended or hurt is not a statistically valid sample. Besides, even if they are a bit offended they may well be polite about it because, well, they're your friend.

Secondly, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... You might not think you're racist, but if you sound racist and I don't know you I'm going to think you're racist. I won't be offended or upset or hurt, I will simply form a negative opinion of you. I will think you're a prat and will try to avoid having any doings with you because you are functionally indistinguishable from racists and bigots. Maybe you don't care about me. You don't know me. But sooner or later me or someone like me is going to be in a position to influence your life for the good or the bad.

Thirdly, if you think racist or sexist jokes are funny, are you really sure you're actually not racist or sexist? Are you sure you're culturally aware enough to really declare that you're truly not a bigot? Go read some stuff. Go learn something. Go understand how you have privilege and what that means.

Ugh...I'm just going to say this once. Everyone everywhere is some form of prejudice. In your time of anger you will say something prejudice its embedded in our dna/soul to not like whats not us.

 

[Aerograt]

They're okay to laugh to in a "Oh my god that's so funny because we shouldn't be saying that" sense; the guy spewing them is arguably a twat.

 

[messy]

If it makes you laugh it funny. Humour is designed to increase happiness in the world, if you are telling a joke for the sole purpose to intimidate or increase hate then you're doing it wrong.

 

[Rathcoole]

Depends on the subject and the person if they know it is a joke and are ok with it, I don't see a problem. I have a work mate named jimmy, we each come from different sides of the politicel fence which in NI is a big deal. We alway's joke around about it, He call's me a dirty orange hun and I called him a no good fenian bastard. We tell insulting jokes about each other's side of the fence and generally just behave like prick's. But neither of us takes it seriouly, just a bit of fun.

 

[Ddgafd]

Yes. If they get offended it's their fault, you never meant to be offensive.

 

[AgentNein]

Firstly, no joke exists in a cultural background. We live in a racist, sexist society; racist and sexist jokes exist in the context of a culture of oppression. It's not a question of "words can never hurt me", it's a question of systematic, institutionalised discrimination. Racist and sexist jokes are part of that spectrum and they contribute to and help to uphold the toxic status quo. They're a way of telling racists and sexists its okay to be bigoted and do the other stuff that's not so "funny".

Asking your one black friend or one woman friend or one gay friend if they personally are offended or hurt is not a statistically valid sample. Besides, even if they are a bit offended they may well be polite about it because, well, they're your friend.

Secondly, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... You might not think you're racist, but if you sound racist and I don't know you I'm going to think you're racist. I won't be offended or upset or hurt, I will simply form a negative opinion of you. I will think you're a prat and will try to avoid having any doings with you because you are functionally indistinguishable from racists and bigots. Maybe you don't care about me. You don't know me. But sooner or later me or someone like me is going to be in a position to influence your life for the good or the bad.

Thirdly, if you think racist or sexist jokes are funny, are you really sure you're actually not racist or sexist? Are you sure you're culturally aware enough to really declare that you're truly not a bigot? Go read some stuff. Go learn something. Go understand how you have privilege and what that means.

Ugh...I'm just going to say this once. Everyone everywhere is some form of prejudice. In your time of anger you will say something prejudice its embedded in our dna/soul to not like whats not us.

Complete and total BS. Is racism and sexism a huge part of our culture, and does it effect us all even on deep levels? Yes. That doesn't mean that everybody's gonna be a racist or a sexist when they're angry. I've been driven to some pretty extreme anger in my life, but I've never magically become a bigot because of it, and IF YOU HAVE, then don't try to lump us all in with you.

 

[KiKiweaky]

I think pretty much everyone has done it at some stage, theres a pretty clear line between making a joke and being a dick.

 

[zeldagirl]

Firstly, no joke exists in a cultural background. We live in a racist, sexist society; racist and sexist jokes exist in the context of a culture of oppression. It's not a question of "words can never hurt me", it's a question of systematic, institutionalised discrimination. Racist and sexist jokes are part of that spectrum and they contribute to and help to uphold the toxic status quo. They're a way of telling racists and sexists its okay to be bigoted and do the other stuff that's not so "funny".

Asking your one black friend or one woman friend or one gay friend if they personally are offended or hurt is not a statistically valid sample. Besides, even if they are a bit offended they may well be polite about it because, well, they're your friend.

Secondly, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... You might not think you're racist, but if you sound racist and I don't know you I'm going to think you're racist. I won't be offended or upset or hurt, I will simply form a negative opinion of you. I will think you're a prat and will try to avoid having any doings with you because you are functionally indistinguishable from racists and bigots. Maybe you don't care about me. You don't know me. But sooner or later me or someone like me is going to be in a position to influence your life for the good or the bad.

Thirdly, if you think racist or sexist jokes are funny, are you really sure you're actually not racist or sexist? Are you sure you're culturally aware enough to really declare that you're truly not a bigot? Go read some stuff. Go learn something. Go understand how you have privilege and what that means.

Just want to say, this post rocks my socks. Seriously, totally awesome of you.

 

[EternalFacepalm]

If it's not too offensive it's okay. And if the person you're telling it to doesn't take offend easily, of course.
Unless you're telling it just to be insulting, which means you're an ass.

 

[Wibble]

Meh, I think it is entirely situational and most people freak out way to much over "offensive jokes."

 

[Viking Incognito]

As long as you are just joking then yes. I don't get people who are offended by stupid jokes just because they are about something kinda touchy.

 

[GundamSentinel]

IMO there is no topic that cannot be addressed with humor. Really, you can joke about anything you want as far as I'm concerned. So what if some people get offended? I'm offended by dog poo and people listening to schlager. Doesn't mean we should ban dogs and schlager. Grow a thicker skin people.