Are we communists?!
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Actually, it is historically debated, but general consensus to my understanding is that the initial plan was not racially motivated. Stalin just didn't know a lot about farming and made some bad policy choices. Then farms failed and the Soviet Union didn't have food. This is where the racism allegedly plays in. Basically, Stalin sent all the grain from not Russia to Russia and let all the not-Russians starve, particularly the Ukraine. There is a lot of evidence pointing to Stalin wanting to starve the Ukrainians or just not caring that they were starving to the point that Ukraine is trying to get the 1930s famine labeled a genocide. That being said, even at its barest beginnings, it does not appear to be a plan to kill not-Russians, just not getting how farming worked. (Yes, this is overly simplified. And yes, it has been a year since that Russian History course so some of this may be a little off).Daystar Clarion said:
I have to agree with this. While the crimes of Stalin are many, I don't believe he killed over issues of race. And as we all know, race is a very touchy issue. People take offense at the Swastika because it's associated with extreme racism, not just murder.Daystar Clarion said:
Because the ideal of Fascism is evil. The ideal of Communists is utopia. Not that we've ever had Communists following the ideal, but having a t-shirt with the symbol of something that has good for an ideal is nowhere near the same as wearing the symbol of something that has evil as an ideal.
Also, you can wear both (maybe not in Germany, but that's legacy of the losing side in a war). And neither will generally net you any positive opinion in the eyes of most normal people.
PS
Terrible title.
Also, you can wear both (maybe not in Germany, but that's legacy of the losing side in a war). And neither will generally net you any positive opinion in the eyes of most normal people.
PS
Terrible title.
Same reason you can wear Che Guevara shirts. That guy basically ruined Cuba, was involved in countless bloody revolutions, yet he's seen by many as a hero, a goddamn freedom fighter.
I dunno.
I own a original Red Army ushanka with a hammer/sickle on it and it looks pretty boss (don't really wear it though). Nazi-ism is here in the Netherlands associated with racism, extermination of people and nationalism (or at least, as far as I know). Their symbolism is so universally associated with bad things that it became a symbol of hate.
I don't think there is any big overarching opinion on commies here, aside from "Don't want".
I own a original Red Army ushanka with a hammer/sickle on it and it looks pretty boss (don't really wear it though). Nazi-ism is here in the Netherlands associated with racism, extermination of people and nationalism (or at least, as far as I know). Their symbolism is so universally associated with bad things that it became a symbol of hate.
I don't think there is any big overarching opinion on commies here, aside from "Don't want".
This is easy.
The ideals of communism have nothing to do with racial superiority, while the German Nationalist Socialist Party (Nazis) was all about both racial and national superiority over others (by virtue of them being white Germans, and anyone who isn't is inferior.).
Communism has survived and adopted its ideals to many countries (some more successfully than others), but Nazism remains all about racial superiority, specifically superiority of white christians over anyone else(Of course christianity is a religion, and not an ethnicity, but that didn't stop the Nazis from using racism against Judaism).
Communism still has valid points to make as a political ideology in the modern, global world. Nazism doesn't (Nothing "global" about racism).
The ideals of communism have nothing to do with racial superiority, while the German Nationalist Socialist Party (Nazis) was all about both racial and national superiority over others (by virtue of them being white Germans, and anyone who isn't is inferior.).
Communism has survived and adopted its ideals to many countries (some more successfully than others), but Nazism remains all about racial superiority, specifically superiority of white christians over anyone else(Of course christianity is a religion, and not an ethnicity, but that didn't stop the Nazis from using racism against Judaism).
Communism still has valid points to make as a political ideology in the modern, global world. Nazism doesn't (Nothing "global" about racism).
I think the closest anyone has ever come to communism was the UK during WW2 with rationing, you're rations were supplied based on how important the government considered your job.
The way I see it is that the majority of the population (speaking as a American) that would wear that article of clothing wouldn't know what the communist symbol is. Were the swastika is commonly known as a symbol of hate and racism.
Also not many people know what the communist did after WW2. Most people in my school are not aware that the Communist were just as bad as the Nazi's.
Also not many people know what the communist did after WW2. Most people in my school are not aware that the Communist were just as bad as the Nazi's.
Dude you just blew my mind.RiouChan said:
he decided who was convicted of "war crimes" in CubaAnarchistFish said:
he shot "disloyal" men in his own army
when he went into a village he rounded up and shot any man suspected of being an informant
the guy was far from a saint
also i bet if you ask people that own that shirt his name and what he did probably half of them don't know.
nogellert1984 said:
No of course not but that's irrelevant. It's what he fundamentally fought for that matters, rather than him as a person.direkiller said:
He was a freedom fighter. The regimes he fought were authoritarian ones that suppressed their people so it'd be hard to argue that the fundamental aim of the revolutions was wrong.BoTTeNBReKeR said:
That page doesn't really explain anything. It says that "stage 3" is impossible to attain but doesn't actually back itself up. Also most people who say communism is great in theory aren't talking about its implimentation. Besides, who says that's the only way to reach it?RiouChan said:
One strange thing about the equilateral cross (swastika) is that to this day nobody knows where it truly originated. Some say it's simply St. George's cross with each end given a bent foot. Or it could be a simplified version of the Phoenician Sunwheel. Each arm (Γ
in the symbol represents a letter in the Greek alphabet (in this case 'gamma'), which is itself derived from a letter in the Phoenician one (gimel). The pre-christian Anglo-Saxons, Druids and Celts all claim to have made it too. It persists in present-day India as a universally holy symbol. It's been drawn throughout China, Syria, France, Israel, and even North America (Yes, the one before white people came).
Sadly, most just see it and think supremecist/neo-Nazi. It's history is much more complex.
I'll let someone else field the hammer and sickle.
in the symbol represents a letter in the Greek alphabet (in this case 'gamma'), which is itself derived from a letter in the Phoenician one (gimel). The pre-christian Anglo-Saxons, Druids and Celts all claim to have made it too. It persists in present-day India as a universally holy symbol. It's been drawn throughout China, Syria, France, Israel, and even North America (Yes, the one before white people came).
Sadly, most just see it and think supremecist/neo-Nazi. It's history is much more complex.
I'll let someone else field the hammer and sickle.
As someone above me has said, I'd like to point out that the Nazis subverted a Buddhist symbol for their own uses. The swastika, if worn flat on one of its sides and not at a thirty-degree angle, actually represents universal harmony. It evokes a revolving wheel, actually, a sense of perpetual motion.Daystar Clarion said:
I'd also like to object to the thread's title, which is more than a little attention-grabbing for no real reason. Communism involves a subservience to the State, the collectivization of resources and, in some regimes, an idolization of the ruler. Wearing a hammer-and-sickle tee-shirt does not make you a Communist, any more than wearing a Che Guevara tee doesn't make you an anarchist or revolutionary in the making. I could wear a swastika on my shirt if I cared to, and even have it canted to the side, the way Nazis do.
I know everyone associates it to Nazism, but that's an erroneous perception. A symbol does not a creed make. Beliefs are only objectionable if they're manifested and believe me, I'd rather shoot myself than start paying attention to antisemitic drivel or fearful calls for widespread racism. It's part of the reason why Marilyn Manson had a quasi-Nazi phase in some of his costumes and set designs.
Well there was still a class system even through the war and if rations were given out based on how important people's jobs were considered to be, then that doesn't really seem to go in line with equality. Sure, maybe things were fairer but it wasn't anywhere near an equal society run by its people.gellert1984 said:
Also yeah, the Swastika was pretty much stolen by Hitler but it still doesn't taken away from that fact that people use it to promote Nazism.