Are we ready for games starring queer/trans heroes? Mainstream and Indie

[CaitSeith]

I think that the mainstream publishers need to polish their skill with the female heroes first. Seriously, even when Tomb Raider was announced in 2012, the PR just couldn't make the announcement without creating controversy (and we are talking about an already established and very popular character!). It's more likely they'll do better in applying advanced rocket science than publishing gay/trans hero.

 

[Lieju]

As an aside I will restate that it blows my mind that people praise EA/Bioware as a forward thinking, progressive company, when all they are doing is exploiting sexualities for profit and they're perfectly okay with that.

But I supppse thats okay because they have a "fully gay" character.

We take what we can get. If there was more competition, people would be more critical of Bioware.
Also, you know, capitalism.

Isn't that the argument that's always brought up when someone complains about the lack of diversity?
That you should make your own games and support games that do what you want?

If people complain about how sexuality is handled in Bioware games, you then get comments like 'the SJWs are never happy'.

 

[prowll]

It depends on how they make it. If it's a GAY CHARACTER, then hell no. If it's a well-constructed character that is gay, then of course. It really depends on if it's a characteristic, or THE DEFINING CHARACTERISTIC.

Personally, I've always thought one out of every three characters in Call of Duty games is at least closeted anyway, so I think it's already out there....

 

[EyeReaper]

Cough cough Persona 4.
I mean, sure, The MC himself couldn't be gay, unfortunately, but it starred both a potentially gay teenager and a possibly trans detective, depending on how you interpret the goings on.

As for the Protagonist him/her/etc.-self, I actually do like the Dragon Age 2 model of "Everyone (except the two characters you want to romance most) is gay for Hawke." Compare, say, Mass Effect 2, which I never finished my femshep playthrough of. Why? you may ask? because you can't romance Tali, or Jack. My personal canon wouldn't allow her to date Garrus, Jacob is boring (and would've cheated on her anyways in 3) and Thane... well, I guess Thane is cool. But all his talk about "Ohh nooo my space cancer is killing meeee" was kinda a bummer.

Finally, and I'm pretty sure I've made this arguement on this site before, but I am 100% positive that Mario is asexual. He's been rescuing that fine-ass princess (and some others) since, what, 1985? and all he's ever gotten from it was a kiss on the nose and some baked goods, which he is completely content with. The evidence really presents itself, I say.

 

[Silvanus]

Well, the Trait: Homosexual [http://vndb.org/i748] list on VNDB would be where I'd start.

I never really got into the visual novel medium. Maybe I should do so. Still, a good number of those seem to be Yaoi, which is not what I'm after.

Still, that list is worth looking into. Much appreciated.

Hmm...
The Last of Us

Spoiler

(Ellie)

Borderlands 2 (Axton)
Uh... The ones above I mentioned...
I mean, there are obviously the bioware RPGs and such where you get to basically romance whoever too.

A lot of fighting games, Guilty Gear in particular as referenced above.

Well, Ellie's not a player character, which is what I'm after.

From what I can gather about Axton, the notion that he likes men grew from a few lines that were initially supposed to be gender-specific. Not quite the same as a well-written gay character. I admit, I haven't got direct experience of the Borderlands games.

Uhm.. what do you mean are? We've had those for a while.

Oh wait I'm sorry I forget arguments like this never take into account player agency in the narrative. Sorry.

Any examples, other than games in which the characters can be played with same-sex interactions, but are not written that way?

Because that's not the same thing.

 

[keniakittykat]

We already have a few?

 

[Ihateregistering1]

It kinda depends on what you mean by "ready".

If a game had a queer/trans hero, do I think there would be a giant outpouring of anger and screams of immorality from gamers? No, I think you'd hear some yelling, but it would primarily be from "Million Moms march" and other rinky-dink ultra-conservative organizations who probably don't play video games anyway.

Do I think that having a queer/trans hero instead of a standard issue vanilla action hero would affect sales? I'm not a VG marketer, but my guess is "probably". How much it would actually affect it is up for debate.

What it ultimately comes down to is whether a company is willing to take the financial risk of putting a character such as that in a game when they could easily insert another vanilla action hero instead and take significantly less financial risk.

 

[Something Amyss]

As an aside I will restate that it blows my mind that people praise EA/Bioware as a forward thinking, progressive company, when all they are doing is exploiting sexualities for profit and they're perfectly okay with that.

And again, I'm reminded of this quote....

Straight White Guys: It's not racist. The reason why most characters are straight white guys is it's a business. They just want to do what makes the most money. No one's being racist or sexist. It's just smart business.
Straight White Guys: Having a Black Captain America or Pakistani Ms. Marvel or female Thor is PANDERING. All they're trying to do is get MONEY from you. It's just a marketing ploy! This is horrible!

They're not really doing anything different by having "fully gay" characters. The difference is the response.

 

[Something Amyss]

Isn't that the argument that's always brought up when someone complains about the lack of diversity?
That you should make your own games and support games that do what you want?

But that's different.

If people complain about how sexuality is handled in Bioware games, you then get comments like 'the SJWs are never happy'.

Not to mention people pitch a fit about these games, yet they don't go make their own. How quickly the narrative changes....

 

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

Why not?

I think if any studio is willing to create a character that is relatable and not loaded with stereotypes then I think they should go nuts. I know some games have created background characters that are either gay or trans, and I think a good chunk of them are really damn good.

As long as that character fits the story and isn't there because the studio wants to look progressive then I think they should try.

Personally, I think it wold be cool to play as someone who isn't me and has experiences that differ from mine.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Making games is a business, you try and aim it at a wide audience to make money. Thing with a character being gay etc is its ok with an rpg where you play as your self and are given the choice to be whatever you want. But with most games making the character gay, trans whatever is not important to the story. For instance making Master Chief gay is pointless as him being gay has zero point to the story. The sexuality of the character is a non issue unless the story of the game involves that character being gay etc.

 

[Something Amyss]

Making games is a business, you try and aim it at a wide audience to make money. Thing with a character being gay etc is its ok with an rpg where you play as your self and are given the choice to be whatever you want. But with most games making the character gay, trans whatever is not important to the story. For instance making Master Chief gay is pointless as him being gay has zero point to the story. The sexuality of the character is a non issue unless the story of the game involves that character being gay etc.

Then is it your belief that things like race and gender do matter to the player? Because we're told it doesn't matter, yet we're told it would also impact sales if straight white dudes had to do what gays, women, and people of colour do for basically every major release.

 

[Risingblade]

Don't see it happening in a mainstream game any time soon. Remember how pissed off people got with Anders hitting on Male Hawke in DA2?

This is exactly what I thought of when I saw the thread title. People could probably accept a gay protagonist in a mainstream video game. Just as long as you don't show him, uh... being gay.

I've never played the game but I've heard plenty of complaints about him being too forward in his interests, apparently shoving his sexuality down their throat (Imagery). You know, I think I've seen something like that before. Could it be in any of the many games where all of the female love interests fawn over the male protagonist? Why don't you get complaints about them being too forward about their sexuality? Okay, well you do, but I seriously doubt the "Stop Anders from hitting on me" crowd is the same as the "Less sexualization of female characters, please" crowd.

I get the feeling that while people are far more widely comfortable with others being gay nowadays, they're still not nearly as comfortable with someone acting gay. If you asked the average mainstream gamer to put themselves in the place of a man in love or physically involved with another man I doubt they'd be nearly as keen on it as with a straight relationship from the man's perspective.

I'm pretty sure the main complaint was Anders was him going from a bro/bff character who just wanted to settle down with a nice girl (or have a harem depending on what you asked him) to this whinny annoying character who randomly likes men now. Fenris another character is also a gay option, yet I've haven't seen any complaints about him.

 

[Reasonable Atheist]

Borderlands 2 (Axton)

Axton? the turret guy? I played an awful lot of borderlands 2 and I never noticed anything queer about him. but I heavily favoured Salvador.

I think us being "ready" for a super queer/trans/other protagonist is directly proportional to how good the game is. My reasoning? Freddy, lead singer of queen was just about the gayest man on the whole planet and had no issues displaying that on stage, but he was just so damn awesome and rocked so damn hard that he pulled it off.

On the flip side that gone home game, I think people would have received it quite a bit better if had been good, unfortunately it was super boring and lame (personal opinion).

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Making games is a business, you try and aim it at a wide audience to make money. Thing with a character being gay etc is its ok with an rpg where you play as your self and are given the choice to be whatever you want. But with most games making the character gay, trans whatever is not important to the story. For instance making Master Chief gay is pointless as him being gay has zero point to the story. The sexuality of the character is a non issue unless the story of the game involves that character being gay etc.

Then is it your belief that things like race and gender do matter to the player? Because we're told it doesn't matter, yet we're told it would also impact sales if straight white dudes had to do what gays, women, and people of colour do for basically every major release.

Erm where did the women, and people of colour come from? In a game with a character creation then they should have options to cover people, gay straight whatever because you are playing as yourself. If you are playing as Master Chief, then your not playing as yourself - your playing as him, not you. Lets look at it this way, Master Chief was a trans guy? What does that add to the character in the Halo games? Companies wouldnt do that because it limits who buys your games so why would they make the character gay/trans whatever if it has nothing to do with the story? Personally i agree with you to a point, i think gay to a lot of people equals camp and that is just cringe worthy - same as the the black guy in GTA5's mission was all ******/dog every 3 seconds was cringe worthy. I think its a misconception of sterotypes/cliches in games. Yes a gay/trans person can be a kick ass character in a game - but if there sexuality etc isnt a story point then why make them gay/trans in the first place? Not saying their shouldnt be characters that reflect the people, just saying why they dont unless the game character being gay etc is an important part of the story.

 

[Something Amyss]

Erm where did the women, and people of colour come from?

Why would they be particularly different? Would a black woman be more or less likely to sell than a gay of any stripe?

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Erm where did the women, and people of colour come from?

Why would they be particularly different? Would a black woman be more or less likely to sell than a gay of any stripe?

Im going by the thread which is trans/queer heroes in mainstream/indie game. Women and people of colour were not mentioned. Personally i dont care what the character is as long as the story is interesting - but many people wont play a game if the character is gay etc so why would a company make a character gay/trans if it doesnt impact the story?

 

[Something Amyss]

Im going by the thread which is trans/queer heroes in mainstream/indie game. Women and people of colour were not mentioned.

But all are used as the "common logic" I was referencing, so it's completely relevant with regards to questioning your beliefs.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Im going by the thread which is trans/queer heroes in mainstream/indie game. Women and people of colour were not mentioned.

But all are used as the "common logic" I was referencing, so it's completely relevant with regards to questioning your beliefs.

Your picking instead of answering. Why stop at just gay, why not have a paedo character? Or a rapist? Common logic states we make choices on what characters we can make games of and what make money. What have my beliefs got to do with anything? I dont give a shit if the character is gay/trans/black/female or whatever else you can think of. Im answering logically in that a company wont make its main character gay/trans etc if the story doesnt deem it important.