Are you freakin' kidding me?

[Insideout Ink Demon]

are rape jokes funny? if its between friends in private who like that sort of humor, then fine what ever, good for you.

in an open forum/social media/public venue, rape jokes are not funny. not while its still a risk in society today that pretty much any woman (and possibly men) could be violated by such a disgusting act.

 

[JimB]

[I am] pointing out the hypocrisy of wanting a place to discuss issues without fear, by cultivating a situation in which you can't discuss issues out of fear of persecution.

Except you're not, because you're not using my words. I said that I want to discuss one issue; you then pluralized the noun, thereby changing the entire meaning of my statement, and attacked me for not living up to an ideal I never said I aspire to.

It comes across as you comparing the actions of the Microsoft representative to that of a Rapist[sic].

May I ask why you keep capitalizing the R in "rapist?" I don't mean to derail the conversation, but you've done it often enough that curiosity is eating at me.

To your specific point, though, I suppose I am comparing his actions sort of collaterally, but the point of the line you're taking issue with is not the actions of either a rapist or the Microsoft representative, but rather the community that shouts down a victim's voice.

Same difference.

It really isn't. That's why they're different words. An argument is a point made in a conversation; a tactic is, in this situation, a method for conveying that point.

You tell me, you're the one who thinks I'm shifting fault onto the victim. So who is it I'm shifting blame onto?

I am not interested in blame. I am interested in the conversation's focus being shifted away from the feelings of those who have reason to object to the cavalier introduction of rape as a topic to the feelings of those who introduced it.

Do you consider the offended the "victims" of this situation?

I...guess you could say so, though I think it requires the word "victim" to be stretched fairly thin, and on those grounds I'd prefer not to use it. There's a reason I've been saying "the people who object to his statement" rather than "the victims."

 

[Venom 3135]

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. This is not a rape joke, this is "banter". You'd say it to any of your friends (If you were a douche) not just a girl. But apparently, just because a woman was involved, it's a rape joke. I really find it hard to believe that something so innocent could possibly be picked up as a rape joke. Fair enough, it was terrible scripting and was pretty stereo-typically sexist, but I simply refuse to believe that that was a rape joke.

 

[00slash00]

when i was watching it last week i felt it was fairly obvious that it was a reference to rape. i wouldnt say i was offended by it, but it did make me pretty uncomfortable.

 

[William Ossiss]

And yet; not a single one of these places says a THING about the next match between these two. You know, the one where she kicked his virtual face in.

Context.. Yes. It IS important.

 

[ShiningAmber]

say something like that

And that's the real issue at hand "Something like that"

If the scenario was guy said "You just got Raped!" after beating the host, there wouldn't be a discussion, there'd be a forum of people saying "That was an incredibly stupid thing to say at E3, and has no place in gaming culture".

But that's not what happened.

What was said was not so clear cut. It was an obscure statement with many different meanings.

Is my inference of it being a benign statement referring to the unpleasantness of being defeated on stage any more valid than your inference of it being a rape joke. No, but your inference has consequences.

What I'm seeing here is a lot of people say me, me, me. I'm offended, I find that offensive, I shouldn't have to hear that, but very few people saying, did HE intend it as a rape joke, did HE intend to be offensive, is it rational to think what HE said constitutes a rape joke?

As many have said before a person is not responsible for the Inference of others, yet here we are, blaming someone for our inferences.

Yes, I am saying I'm offended. Why? I'm a survivor. The first thing of I thought of when he said that was 'rape'. No, I'm not apologizing for it. I shouldn't have to.

I don't really care if it was intended or not. It really wasn't needed and it bothered me. It bothered me. If it didn't bother you, fine. But, I'm allowed to have things bother me. I didn't choose to let it offend me or bother me. But, it did.

I'm sorry that my past makes certain things offensive to me. If I could stop it, I would. Trust me. I'm sorry my inference has consequences. I don't think that's really my fault. I didn't choose to be raped, contrary to what a lot of culture would say.

It happened. Sorry people feel different things than you. I can express that, but don't downplay that the way I feel is incorrect. You obviously feel the way I think is wrong. I'm telling you that I can't control it. I'm vocal enough to say I didn't like it and it reminded me of something I don't want to think about. That isn't wrong.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

are rape jokes funny? if its between friends in private who like that sort of humor, then fine what ever, good for you.

in an open forum/social media/public venue, rape jokes are not funny. not while its still a risk in society today that pretty much any woman (and possibly men) could be violated by such a disgusting act.

Everyone in society today is at risk of being murdered, and jokes about that are not taboo in an open forum/social media/public venue.

yes but there is a difference between rape and murder. or can you not see that? try having some empathy

 

[wulf3n]

snip

snip

Neither of you seem to understand my position, I've tried to explain it, but no matter what I say you keep falling back on arguments I'm not making, or beliefs I don't hold.

I've exhausted my vocabulary, I don't think I can express my opinion any different than this last statement.

You're not at fault. He's not at fault. Blame should go to the person at fault.

If this is not understood, nothing else can be gained from my participation in this thread, and I'll bid you all good day.

 

[JimB]

You're not at fault. He's not at fault. Blame should go to the person at fault.

I do not care about blame or fault. They are childish and irrelevant. Neither blame nor fault interest me, and I would have given up on this mindless repetition a day ago, except that your constant insistence that we discuss is has raised my hackles and I intend to see this through now. You can feel free to assign or absolve blame and fault all you want, but the closest I come to caring about those things is caring about responsibility. If people want to hold the Microsoft representative responsible for his actions, then I am completely serene with it.

 

[wulf3n]

but the closest I come to caring about those things is caring about responsibility.

And what responsibility is that?

It can't be for how others infer ones statement as you've already said that's not the case.

Inferences are formed entirely in the minds of the audience

I do not care about blame or fault.

If you didn't we wouldn't be here.

 

[Dark Knifer]

I did not realise this was a rape joke until well after the event and I was aware of the joke for a long time.

Didn't strike me as that type of joke, just normal trash talk and everyone came down on them because she happened to be a girl.

 

[JimB]

I think that people just have to realize that the gaming community is now obsessed with rape, in a self-fulfilling prophecy to deserve a vagina-shaped medal; they have created a rape culture by seeing a rape culture where little to none existed, and they're now pointing at this Zeitgeist and going "See! It's everywhere," even though they inception'd this thought into everyone's head in the first place.

This is the very definition of victim-blaming: Anyone who perceives rape culture (perhaps as the result of having been raped, having her rape video recorded, having that recording distributed across the internet, and being blamed for being raped despite the video evidence) only does so because he created the rape culture by perceiving it; ipso facto, suffering its effects is his own doing. If he hadn't worried about rape, he wouldn't have been raped.

What would have happened if he'd said "I'm going to destroy you?"

What would have happened if a lightning bolt burst through the roof of the building and struck him and only him dead after he'd uttered the words? It doesn't matter. Changing the subject to discuss something that didn't happen but might have is not terrifically useful.

And what responsibility is that?

The responsibility every speaker has for his words.

It can't be for how others infer one's statement, as you've already said that's not the case.

As far as I know, no one is denying responsibility for their feelings, so I have no reason to worry about it. So far as I can tell, you are using words like "blame" and "fault" to describe whether a person is allowed to be angry here, which is a completely useless standard.

If you didn't, then we wouldn't be here.

You do not understand my motivations as well as you think you do.

Everyone came down on them because she happened to be a girl.

Unfortunately, this is true. It's a damned shame that male victims of rape are even more invisible than female victims, but there you have it.

 

[Brown_Coat117]

Ok guys and gals time for a reality check.

If this man had said this to another man in that context it wouldn't have been a rape joke. If the woman had said this to the man in the same context it wouldn't have have been a rape joke. If an woman had said it to another woman in the same context it wouldn't have ben a rape joke. How does it add up that the man saying it to a woman in that context is a rape joke? Talk about people needing a dose of reality.

I think that people just have to realize that the gaming community is now obsessed with rape, in a self-fulfilling prophecy to deserve a vagina-shaped medal; they have created a rape culture by seeing a rape culture where little to none existed, and they're now pointing at this Zeitgeist and going "See! It's everywhere," even though they inception'd this thought into everyone's head in the first place.

This is the very definition of victim-blaming: Anyone who perceives rape culture (perhaps as the result of having been raped, having her rape video recorded, having that recording distributed across the internet, and being blamed for being raped despite the video evidence) only does so because he created the rape culture by perceiving it; ipso facto, suffering its effects is his own doing. If he hadn't worried about rape, he wouldn't have been raped.

Ok, Jim one second. As far as I could tell, Immovablemover wasn't talking about the crime of rape or the existence of victim blaming. He was talking about the ultra-paranoid atmosphere that results when self appointed political-correctness police effectively cry wolf over instances such as the one that happened at Microsoft's E3 presentation. Also I find it interesting the sentence you chose not to reply to.

On topic though, the guy said "This unpleasant experience of losing will be over once i'm finished winning, this could be hastened by you letting me win". Which, not only is a statement of simple fact (a = a, if you let me win i'll win, etc etc), but the kind of language and sentiment you will find in any heated competition.

 

[Wyvern65]

I'm starting to wonder what the point of beating this particular dead horse is. Microsoft apologized. The woman involved said it was fine. I sincerely doubt the man involved will ever make another public joke for the rest of his life. The media lambasted it everywhere from HuffPost to Jezebel to the New York Times to Forbes to CNN.

So, what's next? Will people only be satisfied if the dude commits ritual suicide or something?

 

[fletch_talon]

"Just let it happen. It will be over soon."

Oh look a comment that could just as easily be about an execution/murder as it could be about rape.
Those 2 sentences refer to something painful or unpleasant and the benefits of not struggling to make it end quickly.
That does not mean rape, it does not mean he was, was thinking of or planned to rape her. Rape was never mentioned, nor was it implied or inferred. Rape was not the logical conclusion, rape was not a logical conclusion.

The usual questions also arise.
Would people still think it was a rape joke if it was:
-A man talking to another man?
-A woman talking to another woman?
and of course the crowd favourite
-A woman talking to a man?

There is no argument here, only a handful of people wanting something to get angry about.

 

[JimB]

As far as I could tell, Immovablemover wasn't talking about the crime of rape or the existence of victim blaming.

I'm sure he doesn't intend to, but unless the argument is that those two things exist as distinct and disconnected from rape culture, I don't see how he's not talking about them.

He was talking about the ultra-paranoid atmosphere that results when self- appointed political correctness-police effectively cry wolf over instances such as the one that happened at Microsoft's E3 presentation.

Rape culture, as a term, is not defined that way. And in any event, I sincerely doubt paranoia plays any particular part in it; what I suspect you folks are complaining about is the bandwagon of outrage, of people with no true convictions eagerly leaping forward to be offended because being offended is cool and provides a sense of moral superiority over one's foes, not to mention a source of drama in which to cast oneself as the hero. That is a real thing, of course, but it is not the definition of rape culture, and I take exception to his attempt to redefine terms instead of using existing ones.

Also I find it interesting the sentence you chose not to reply to.

I really have nothing left to say to that sentence, because I've replied to sentences more or less identical to it so many times. The Microsoft representative did not say "This unpleasant experience of losing will be over once I'm finished winning; this could be hastened by you letting me win;" he said, "Just let it happen, it will be over soon." That is a verifiable fact, and Immovablemover's statement is so false it merits no response. The only way his statement could be a topic of discussion is if he means it's what the Microsoft representative intended to convey rather than what he actually said, which is a conversation I am deathly bored of because, as I've said half a dozen times in this thread already, I do not care about what he intended to say. I care about what he actually said in physical reality.

Will people only be satisfied if the dude commits ritual suicide or something?

I'd like to point out that the only people who have brought up punishing the Microsoft representative are his erstwhile advocates.

Rape was never mentioned, nor was it implied or inferred.

It's arguable that it wasn't implied, but it most definitely has been inferred. The word doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

The usual questions also arise.

All of which boil down to, "If the situation was different, would the situation be different?" Let's please stop trying to remove events from their context.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

are rape jokes funny? if its between friends in private who like that sort of humor, then fine what ever, good for you.

in an open forum/social media/public venue, rape jokes are not funny. not while its still a risk in society today that pretty much any woman (and possibly men) could be violated by such a disgusting act.

Everyone in society today is at risk of being murdered, and jokes about that are not taboo in an open forum/social media/public venue.

yes but there is a difference between rape and murder. or can you not see that? try having some empathy

One damages a person and the other damages people too.

One person is forced upon, while the other rips loved ones out of the lives of others.

Where is your empathy?

I don't think jokes about the dead are appropriate.