Also, I don't like androgynes, but hot chicks with big tits and Uber-Macho space marines are OK in my book.
Are young girly boys, muscular soldiers and buxom women really that offensive?
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Granted that was the style they wanted for the game and for Street Fighter alone, it suits well, but I still think it was over the top.Deef said:
I'm not offended, but in regards to the big-busted women, heck, women in general...can they have some clothes?! Just normal and/or appropriate clothes, instead of clothes that make me go, "Wow, you must be using tape to keep from having a 'wardrobe malfunction'." And doing things that make me go, "Yeah, boobs don't work that way."
And if all the male characters are running around in body armor, the female characters should not be in a glorified metal g-string.
As for the oversized space marines and the androgynous pretty boys, meh. Both are very telling of the culture that produced them and their ideas of masculinity.
And if all the male characters are running around in body armor, the female characters should not be in a glorified metal g-string.
As for the oversized space marines and the androgynous pretty boys, meh. Both are very telling of the culture that produced them and their ideas of masculinity.
They're not offensive - at least not to me - but they're still irritating.
In a way, the Marcus Fenix-type characters actually annoy me more than the Tidus-type ones. At least Tidus looks like an actual person and not a half-ton sphere carved vaguely into the shape of a person, with an entire car's worth of armour plating on top. I suppose it all comes down to East/West stereotypes, and what developers think is attractive. I, for one, have no idea how Fenix could possibly be considered attractive, but he was created by Epic, I guess.
The huge-breasted women do really annoy me, though, for the same reason I think Fenix looks ridiculous: I like characters who actually look like real people, and half the female characters in gaming just don't. I realise there are characters out there who look normal and act like you'd expect an actual human to, but they're in a minority, and vastly outnumbered by Soul Calibur and Dead or Alive characters with breasts that are apparently bigger than character's head. Plus, the frightening emphasis on jiggle physics some games have really frightens me: each breast moving independently of the other, and them moving about a foot up and down whenever the character so much as moves. To quote:
In a way, the Marcus Fenix-type characters actually annoy me more than the Tidus-type ones. At least Tidus looks like an actual person and not a half-ton sphere carved vaguely into the shape of a person, with an entire car's worth of armour plating on top. I suppose it all comes down to East/West stereotypes, and what developers think is attractive. I, for one, have no idea how Fenix could possibly be considered attractive, but he was created by Epic, I guess.
The huge-breasted women do really annoy me, though, for the same reason I think Fenix looks ridiculous: I like characters who actually look like real people, and half the female characters in gaming just don't. I realise there are characters out there who look normal and act like you'd expect an actual human to, but they're in a minority, and vastly outnumbered by Soul Calibur and Dead or Alive characters with breasts that are apparently bigger than character's head. Plus, the frightening emphasis on jiggle physics some games have really frightens me: each breast moving independently of the other, and them moving about a foot up and down whenever the character so much as moves. To quote:
The Spoony One said:
i actually bought x blades. Worst 35 euro i ever spent. Absolutly pointless game. the battle's were horrible fight's of attrition that left me exausted. just plain horrible wannabe devil may cry rip. and worst part is, they cell shaded the girl's ass. just NO.
I would bet /any/ sum of money that if somebody made a combat game where the soldiers were all well-adjusted, mild-mannered men and women of average build, height, and physical makeup, everybody would hate it.
People like to complain. Take away the cliche, and they'll find something else to hate, even if hating it contradicts their prior complaints.
If you can give me a good quality game experience, I don't much care if the protagonist is pushing their spandex sports-bra past its tensile strength limit, or if their chin could shatter concrete.
A cliche is just a poorly used template. Every story game/story/movie/book/comic borrows and copies from previous sources, which themselves came from basic archetypes ingrained into our respective cultures.
People like to complain. Take away the cliche, and they'll find something else to hate, even if hating it contradicts their prior complaints.
If you can give me a good quality game experience, I don't much care if the protagonist is pushing their spandex sports-bra past its tensile strength limit, or if their chin could shatter concrete.
A cliche is just a poorly used template. Every story game/story/movie/book/comic borrows and copies from previous sources, which themselves came from basic archetypes ingrained into our respective cultures.
The problem is that if im buying x-blades , the publisher will assume its because the fact the protagonist is half haked appeals to me. (me being a young man) Its like buying a porn magazine and claiming you read it for the articles. I have the same problem with Soul Calibur 4.
Gears of war on the other hand may have muscular macho characters, but theres no evidence that their like that to appeal to any kind of gaming audience. They just wanted them to look badass.
Androgenous teenage protagonists are typically japanese. Its most likely something their used to and like. Or its square-enix' way of catering to both male and female gaming audiences at the same time.
Gears of war on the other hand may have muscular macho characters, but theres no evidence that their like that to appeal to any kind of gaming audience. They just wanted them to look badass.
Androgenous teenage protagonists are typically japanese. Its most likely something their used to and like. Or its square-enix' way of catering to both male and female gaming audiences at the same time.
I have no problem with most of it. Although, the girly boys can get annoying. The muscular men are usually soldiers, and occasionally super-soldiers at that, so it'd be a little odd if they had arms like stick insects.
As for the women, I'd actually prefer it if they wore clothes. Take X-Blades. The entire game has her completely unarmoured, yet she does fight. That rounded ass of hers should have been sliced off ages ago, yet somehow other blades simply bounce off.
Can we at least keep the games within some degree of realism? Armour, people!
As for the women, I'd actually prefer it if they wore clothes. Take X-Blades. The entire game has her completely unarmoured, yet she does fight. That rounded ass of hers should have been sliced off ages ago, yet somehow other blades simply bounce off.
Can we at least keep the games within some degree of realism? Armour, people!
For all the talk about how wonderful Japanese culture is, no culture trades in stereotypes quite like Japan. Everything is shorthand by appearance there. Big-breasted girl? Brainless. (contrast Etna from Disgaea, the plucky, stronger-than-the-hero girl and flat as a pancake---pettanko is a guaranteed sign the girl's gonna be worth taking seriously.) Girly-looking bishounen yaoi bait? Brooding antihero who's gonna find his soul at some point (except Spike Spiegel from Cowboy Bebop, a badass to the end.)
I could go on, but you get the idea. It's modern Kabuki theater playing in rigid typecasts...a natural outgrowth of the Japanese national character, really.
I could go on, but you get the idea. It's modern Kabuki theater playing in rigid typecasts...a natural outgrowth of the Japanese national character, really.
What ever happened to "it is whats on the inside that counts". I don't care about these cliches if the character him or herself is interesting. Did they go with the orphaned amnesiac teenage savior of the world? The "I'll be back" one liner jock type who has armes bigger than his head and triple D breasts? Or did they take those character skins and give them a heart and soul?
i agree, except for one thing:Bright_Raven said:
if people as a whole stopped projecting these stereotypes altogether, then they wouldn't be created and re-created in the media. yes, some characters are obviously overblown (x-blades, anyone? that ***** gets on my nerves), but in a game/movie/song with a good story dealing with a character properly, you know there's someone out there who's exatly like that.
example? take a look at the club scene: a bunch of promiscuous men and women on alcohol, amphetamines and cocaine, listening to music made by a bunch of promiscuous men and women on alcohol, amphetamines and cocaine, talking about being a promiscuous man/woman on alcohol, amphetamines and cocaine. say what you want about it, but that's a side of culture that's never gonna change; these people won't fade away, they'll just evolve into another drug-culture movement.
just like the overly-gay stereotype, or the moronic ditzy female stereotype, or the slightly homoerotic muscle-man stereotype, or the fat nerd with no friends and no social skills stereotype (i think there was an article on the escapist talking about a computer college adding social skills courses to their curriculum, because the students, while highly skilled at their jobs, had difficulties with bosses and coworkers). love em or hate em, they're here to stay. and if you expect that to change, mother nature has a message for you: dream on.
as for your gta4 comment and stereotypical homosexuals: didn't they address that on the simpsons? it was before gta4, but there was an episode where homer was befriended by a gay couple who looked like "normal people", and marge hired weird al to try and help win him back. ok, i know that's not a video game, but it's not like the issue is never addressed
?i agree on x-blades (plus enough with the cornhole shots in that game, eh? i like checking a fine ass, not examining it like a proctologist!), but i always wondered if men like shit like gears of war or g.i. joe for the same reason women like romantic comedies: role models.Biek said:
and what better role model than the upmost extreme you can be?
gears of war: muscular tough guys being worshipped as heroes while kicking ass
any date movie: sexy women being worshipped as goddesses while always getting their way
simply appealing to our own vanity? it's a debate that will never end ...
To me, the key point is this: the character has to be a likable and sympathetic protagonist regardless of whatever stereotypes they fit into. The issue is, people develop pet peeves about certain stereotypes that they see everywhere, and the character thus becomes less likable because of the prejudices of the player about that stereotype. Any of those stereotypes can be good characters, but they have steep uphill battle to becoming likable when the audience is predisposed to not caring about that type of character.
Gears of War I'll forgive easily enough because the story is about nothing but fighting; you expect some degree of hypermasculine dickspurts when that's all there is to do in the world. Likewise, it worked for God of War; Kratos is so abrasive and hateful that he's intensely fun to watch, so long as you're doing it from the safe distance of a TV screen.
As for X-blades, I can't say I hate it as I haven't played it, but the Unskippable video convinced me that I don't care enough to see if she is likable; I'm happy enough assuming she's not. The main thing that gets me about female characters is when they dress completely impractically, but this can also depend on the setting. I'll forgive super-heroines quickly enough since superpowers can make up for any petty annoyances like practicality, but it irks me more than a little when female characters in 'normal' settings are completely unhindered by absolutely stupid fashion choices that SHOULD hinder them. Female characters can be done right, but they need at least some grounding in realism, and need to be a decent character if they have any lines; the hotness of a girl only amplifies their annoying qualities in my eyes if you're forced to be around them in the game (or play as them).
As for young, girly-boy protagonists... I'm pretty heavily prejudiced against that one. I can't think of one example where it was done well. Whenever I try to overlook that and just read into the character itself, they piss me off anyway, and then I get to feel stupid because the prejudgment I tried to ignore was 100% right. So, screw this type; you can have young protagonists but for crap's sake make it fit with the story; 14 year-olds should not be elite soldiers, especially if they're total pussies.
Now, not all not all protagonists can be the Nameless One, but there can be some that aren't the shallow stocks. Gordon Freeman mixed that up a bit, though without any actual characterization of him, he's still very shallow. That can be fine; not all games actually intend to do character development. But those that DO should at least try to do it well.
Gears of War I'll forgive easily enough because the story is about nothing but fighting; you expect some degree of hypermasculine dickspurts when that's all there is to do in the world. Likewise, it worked for God of War; Kratos is so abrasive and hateful that he's intensely fun to watch, so long as you're doing it from the safe distance of a TV screen.
As for X-blades, I can't say I hate it as I haven't played it, but the Unskippable video convinced me that I don't care enough to see if she is likable; I'm happy enough assuming she's not. The main thing that gets me about female characters is when they dress completely impractically, but this can also depend on the setting. I'll forgive super-heroines quickly enough since superpowers can make up for any petty annoyances like practicality, but it irks me more than a little when female characters in 'normal' settings are completely unhindered by absolutely stupid fashion choices that SHOULD hinder them. Female characters can be done right, but they need at least some grounding in realism, and need to be a decent character if they have any lines; the hotness of a girl only amplifies their annoying qualities in my eyes if you're forced to be around them in the game (or play as them).
As for young, girly-boy protagonists... I'm pretty heavily prejudiced against that one. I can't think of one example where it was done well. Whenever I try to overlook that and just read into the character itself, they piss me off anyway, and then I get to feel stupid because the prejudgment I tried to ignore was 100% right. So, screw this type; you can have young protagonists but for crap's sake make it fit with the story; 14 year-olds should not be elite soldiers, especially if they're total pussies.
Now, not all not all protagonists can be the Nameless One, but there can be some that aren't the shallow stocks. Gordon Freeman mixed that up a bit, though without any actual characterization of him, he's still very shallow. That can be fine; not all games actually intend to do character development. But those that DO should at least try to do it well.
Deus Ex. I can name only one hypermasculine character in the game and you get to blow him up. The main character and all the other normal soldiers are of about average height and build; there are no overly attractive men or women in the game (granted, the graphics are a bit dated, but no one TRIES to be unrealistically sexy). It has the whole "cybernetic enhancements" thing, but they all act like fairly normal people, just with some new technology. And the game is awesome. Likewise: Fallout 2, Fallout 3, Left 4 Dead, Beyond Good and Evil, and probably a whole list of 'em I'm forgetting. It is VERY possible to make characters people love without relying on physical appearance. Case in point: Planescape Torment. I absolutely LOVED the Nameless One as a character as well as most of the cast, but I think everyone can agree the Nameless One isn't exactly friendly to the eyes (he's about as sexy as a month-old Zombie).Grimrider6 said:
