Arrogance

[Nathaniel Grey]

Some hate it, I love it, some feel it?s meh. I was conversing with my brother some time ago and discovered that he did not like Tony Stark. When I asked why, he said ?He?s too arrogant.? This made no sense to me. Tony?s arrogance is what made him refreshing as a character. In fact, I found, every character has a degree of arrogance; Thor, Hulk, Captain America, Hawkeye ?etc. The arrogance stems from their confidence in their abilities. I see that there is a misconception. You cannot have confidence without arrogance (or at least some degree of arrogance). Confidence stems from the belief in ones abilities and oneself. Arrogance stems from the root of confidence but taken to an extreme. A point in which your confidence becomes overbearing to others. Sometimes simply walking around with an air of confidence can come off as arrogance. Whether it is, or to the contrary, is up to the perceiver. Personally I believe Tony is simply very confident in his intelligence, which often comes off as arrogant. My question to you, Escapist, is do you feel that arrogance is rooted within confidence? If not, then how does one have confidence without being arrogant?

 

[dyre]

I think there's a difference between being comfortable with your intellect and being arrogant. The former is a kind of quiet confidence, in which you only play your cards when confronted. The latter is an irritating "I must let everyone know that I'm the best" attitude in which everything you say has "btw, I'm smart" written between the lines.

I dislike Tony Stark because (IMO) he radiates that smug "I'm better than you" attitude with everything he says, but your mileage may vary. I've only seen the first Iron Man so maybe his character has developed since then (actually I saw Avengers too and IIRC he was less annoying in that one). I've definitely had conversations with people who were vastly more knowledgeable than me (and I'm sure they knew it), yet they'd talk to me like equals. And I respected them all the more for it.

I guess I'm saying confidence with a light touch of humility (or at least tact) > arrogance. People respect your intellect just as much, and you don't have to look like a dick.

 

[Eamar]

I think there's a difference between being comfortable with your intellect and being arrogant. The former is a kind of quiet confidence, in which you only play your cards when confronted. The latter is an irritating "I must let everyone know that I'm the best" attitude in which everything you say has "btw, I'm smart" written between the lines.

Pretty much this, and IRL arrogance is supremely irritating and likely to get you a lot of hate. In fiction though, it's often combined with a hell of a lot of charisma which can make it enjoyable, even endearing (again, strictly within the realms of fiction). Tony Stark is undeniably arrogant, that's kind of his thing, but he's also hugely charismatic and funny, so a lot of people (myself included) really like him. Characters like Joffrey or Cersei in ASOIAF/Game of Thrones on the other hand are arrogant without any of the charisma or humour, which is what makes them so satisfyingly unlikeable.

The other thing about Tony Stark is that he's portrayed as being very aware of his arrogance, which can appeal to the feelings of "wow, I really wish I could give so few fucks about what people say and think as this guy" that a lot of us might have deep down. Finally, there's a healthy amount of Tony's arrogance being played for laughs, sometimes at his expense (the moment when he has the realisation about Stark Tower before the final act of Avengers, for example).

Basically, arrogance tempered with charisma and/or humour = better (in fiction, maybe occasionally in real life), arrogance without any of that = pretty much universally irritating.

 

[omega 616]

To me there are two ways to see just about everything, one person says "he an arrogant arsehole" and the other person says "he has an air of confidence" ... "she speaks her mind" or "shes a *****!".

Arrogance is somebody taking your confidence the wrong way.

Of course you could be acting like a bit of a dick and then it is hard to take your confidence the right way.

That might just be my views on the subject though.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

It's not so much about Tony Stark's arrogance as it is about Robert Downey Jr. spreading his acting chops thin. The guy has a shtick, like Johnny Depp, and he doesn't step out of it. He plays himself, or the image he wants to have people of himself. The only real acting I've ever seen him do was in Chaplin and Tropic Thunder.

 

[Fappy]

Pretty much this, and IRL arrogance is supremely irritating and likely to get you a lot of hate.

Honestly, a small amount of arrogance here and there is tolerable, but when it's someone's defining characteristic there is a huge problem. I'm the kind of person that feigns arrogance for laughs when with friends. Unless you're not paying attention or an idiot, you'll generally be able to detect the obvious sarcasm. That isn't to say that I am never arrogant. I think everyone's guilty of it every now and then.

But the people who can't seem to turn it off? Those people drive me fucking nuts. You see it a lot in nerd culture, which is kind of odd. You know, the people who are an authority on this or that and brag about their knowledge or skill in any given nerd pursuit.

God, I hate those socially awkward dildos XD

 

[Eamar]

Pretty much this, and IRL arrogance is supremely irritating and likely to get you a lot of hate.

Honestly, a small amount of arrogance here and there is tolerable, but when it's someone's defining characteristic there is a huge problem. I'm the kind of person that feigns arrogance for laughs when with friends. Unless you're not paying attention or an idiot, you'll generally be able to detect the obvious sarcasm. That isn't to say that I am never arrogant. I think everyone's guilty of it every now and then.

But the people who can't seem to turn it off? Those people drive me fucking nuts. You see it a lot in nerd culture, which is kind of odd. You know, the people who are an authority on this or that and brag about their knowledge or skill in any given nerd pursuit.

God, I hate those socially awkward dildos XD

Yeah, I should clarify that I mean more when it's a permanent, defining characteristic. I'm pretty sure we're all guilty of the odd bit of arrogance every now and again

Also, "socially awkward dildo" is my new favourite insult. Though I can't shake the idea that it should be a meme...

 

[Fappy]

Pretty much this, and IRL arrogance is supremely irritating and likely to get you a lot of hate.

Honestly, a small amount of arrogance here and there is tolerable, but when it's someone's defining characteristic there is a huge problem. I'm the kind of person that feigns arrogance for laughs when with friends. Unless you're not paying attention or an idiot, you'll generally be able to detect the obvious sarcasm. That isn't to say that I am never arrogant. I think everyone's guilty of it every now and then.

But the people who can't seem to turn it off? Those people drive me fucking nuts. You see it a lot in nerd culture, which is kind of odd. You know, the people who are an authority on this or that and brag about their knowledge or skill in any given nerd pursuit.

God, I hate those socially awkward dildos XD

Yeah, I should clarify that I mean more when it's a permanent, defining characteristic. I'm pretty sure we're all guilty of the odd bit of arrogance every now and again

Also, "socially awkward dildo" is my new favourite insult. Though I can't shake the idea that it should be a meme...

I think dildo is just a fun word to use!

When I think of those people, "dildo" is the first thing that comes to mind XD

 

[Flutterguy]

I don't like it based on the fact I had friends who idolized the attitude when they seen it in movies, then jokingly adopted it, then became it, then we stopped talking.

 

[Therumancer]

Some hate it, I love it, some feel it?s meh. I was conversing with my brother some time ago and discovered that he did not like Tony Stark. When I asked why, he said ?He?s too arrogant.? This made no sense to me. Tony?s arrogance is what made him refreshing as a character. In fact, I found, every character has a degree of arrogance; Thor, Hulk, Captain America, Hawkeye ?etc. The arrogance stems from their confidence in their abilities. I see that there is a misconception. You cannot have confidence without arrogance (or at least some degree of arrogance). Confidence stems from the belief in ones abilities and oneself. Arrogance stems from the root of confidence but taken to an extreme. A point in which your confidence becomes overbearing to others. Sometimes simply walking around with an air of confidence can come off as arrogance. Whether it is, or to the contrary, is up to the perceiver. Personally I believe Tony is simply very confident in his intelligence, which often comes off as arrogant. My question to you, Escapist, is do you feel that arrogance is rooted within confidence? If not, then how does one have confidence without being arrogant?

Well, most comic characters have some fatal flaws, in Tony's case Hubris is one of them. It's also a big part of what drove the whole long-running "Demon In a Bottle" arc which is where Tony spent a LONG time grappling with alcoholism and it came closer to destroying him than most villains. His own arrogance is sort of what lead him to the bottle when the stress and doubts he was under started running full tilt into his own god complex.

The thing is that in the process of doing the movies they decided to try and re-do Tony for the mainstream, deciding to liberalize his politics, have him out his identity right from the beginning, and similar things. As a result he never really grew as a character. See Tony is actually supposed to be a hyper-nationalist who builds weapons for the US government, things like "The Sentinels" were in part created by him, not to mention a good portion of The Hardware used by groups like SHIELD. Furthermore it was revealed he, and a few other super geniuses, were working to manipulate things behind the scenes for a long time as a group literally calling themselves "The Illuminati". Going into "The Civil War" Tony was actually the USA Secretary of Defense.

Immediately nixing all of this stuff pretty much just turned Tony into an arrogant jerk, largely because you never had to see him dealing with the moral conundrum of having helped develop things like "The Sentinels" (Project Wideawake), or confront his own arrogance and self-pride that came from being an unaugemented human who was able to keep up with powerful super beings from all over reality simply based on his intelligence. Indeed half the point of "Extremis" was Tony coming to the realization that to keep up with the threats he was facing that he was going to have to augement himself, and stop being an ordinary person, which was a sense of pride for him for a long time.

The point being that I sort of see your friend's point, and I see this as being a big part of the problem with mainstreaming the universe. When Iron Man shows up, and the first thing he does is gives up weapons manufacturing, while revealing his identity publically, and then goes running around as a hypocrite in a heavily armed suit of armor doing whatever the hell he wants to at the moment it's kind of hard to take him seriously. Had he undergone the arcs from the comics to sort of sell this personality and show how it works, and what kinds of trouble he's caused and the guilt he faces over it, it would be a lot different.

 

[Atmos Duality]

It's not so much about Tony Stark's arrogance as it is about Robert Downey Jr. spreading his acting chops thin. The guy has a shtick, like Johnny Depp, and he doesn't step out of it. He plays himself, or the image he wants to have people of himself. The only real acting I've ever seen him do was in Chaplin and Tropic Thunder.

Have you seen RD Jr in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang?
He was playing the inverse of his Sherlock Holmes role in that film. (strange but good film)

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

It's not so much about Tony Stark's arrogance as it is about Robert Downey Jr. spreading his acting chops thin. The guy has a shtick, like Johnny Depp, and he doesn't step out of it. He plays himself, or the image he wants to have people of himself. The only real acting I've ever seen him do was in Chaplin and Tropic Thunder.

Have you seen RD Jr in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang?
He was playing the inverse of his Sherlock Holmes role in that film. (strange but good film)

I did. He's good in the film but how is he different from every other sardonic character he's ever played?

 

[Atmos Duality]

I did. He's good in the film but how is he different from every other sardonic character he's ever played?

I thought his performance was far more vulnerable and bumbling in that. (probably because he was still in rehab at the time)
It doesn't carry the same air of supreme confidence as his Tony Stark or the arrogant eccentricity of his Sherlock Holmes.

Yeah, there's similar elements, but I didn't find them to be identical to his recent performances.

 

[Undomesticated Equine]

Tony Stark is like MacGyver crossed with Batman and he knows it, he likes AC/DC and wears a Black Sabbath T-shirt, also owns Audi R8, so he has a good taste as well. He is arrogant and he behaves like he is better than you be well he is. He is most definitely the coolest of the avengers. It is OK to be arrogant if you can back it up, unfortunately i know a person irl who is just ridiculously arrogant thinking himself a pinnacle of humanity but he is quite dumb and the result is unlikeable misantropic moron it is sad and funny at the same time.

 

[FalloutJack]

I am arrogant, but I feel that I have good enough reason to be, and I'm not an asshole about it. So...yeah.

 

[IceStar100]

I am arrogant, but I feel that I have good enough reason to be, and I'm not an asshole about it. So...yeah.

I don't know if this is a joke or not but I admit I started laughing hard when I notice your avatar is the Enclave

 

[FalloutJack]

I am arrogant, but I feel that I have good enough reason to be, and I'm not an asshole about it. So...yeah.

I don't know if this is a joke or not but I admit I started laughing hard when I notice your avatar is the Enclave

A little of Column A, a little of Column B. Taking the piss out of myself is generally one of my more redeaming qualities on this front.

 

[IceStar100]

I am arrogant, but I feel that I have good enough reason to be, and I'm not an asshole about it. So...yeah.

I don't know if this is a joke or not but I admit I started laughing hard when I notice your avatar is the Enclave

A little of Column A, a little of Column B. Taking the piss out of myself is generally one of my more redeaming qualities on this front.

This is why I think there should be a sarcastica font since true sarcasm is 80% tone of voice and body language.

 

[Zhukov]

Personally I'm kinda jealous of arrogant people.

Sure, they can be a pain to deal with, but they always strike me as being happier for their self assurance. Even the ones who are just plain full o' shit.

 

[Cpu46]

My former roommate was arrogant.... about the fact he was arrogant... about everything.

His only saving grace was that every single idea he had failed spectacularly which made his arrogant attitude almost endearing in a weird way.